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Xha'li Moui · **07-07-2013, 01:40 AM**

I still haven't fully planned out all the details of my Male Keeper, my current plan has him being a fun loving youngster who eventually catches a bad case of wanderlust who left his tribe to further his knowledge of arcane arts.Â He'll probably start out as having only left at the encouragement of his mother who might herself be a retired adventurer.

Ryanti · **07-07-2013, 02:10 AM**

(07-06-2013, 11:41 AM)Spiritual Machine Wrote: @Ryanti, since it seems like your character is half Hyur and half Miqo'te, do you happen to know where the official lore is regarding cross-breeding between races?

There is not a single word about the subject out there officially. I don't know if they will ever address it.

What has been established is really nothing but player-created lore. Is it rather acceptable to say that half-breeds in this game take on the physical features of one race and the genetic complexion of both. Ryanti has his father's generic complexion but his mother's features.

It can be rather iffy. It's usually acceptable that Miqo'te and Hyurs can breed, as well as Elezen/Hyur, Roedaygn/Hyur.. that's all I really know of people that have done half-breeds. But things like Lalafell and Ro... yeah. Those are not so acceptable.

I was suggested to go half breed because I was having issues with creating an appropriate background for Ryanti, and it gave me a lot of depth that wouldn't be there if he was otherwise. I honestly didn't want to go half-breed at first (because eventually, somebody will always give you crap about it), but I warmed up to it later on. It's just way too convenient for me to not do with my plots and stuff.

Aysun · **07-07-2013, 02:48 AM**

As has been said before, most of the issues baring half-breeds from being common (whether different races or just different clans) is the cultural differences. Miqo'te alone have quite stark differences between the two clans: social structure of their tribes (when they are tribal--there are plenty who aren't as is evident in game now), settlement locations (Seekers are partial to Limsa and the Sagolii, Keepers are mostly in Gridania and the Shroud), and even basic things like being nocturnal vs. diurnal. This makes half-breeds unlikely.

Of course, anything unlikely/rare is bound to be quite common amongst RPers! Tongue

My own character fell in love with a Hyur. But she was raised non-tribally, around Hyurs for the most part, so it makes sense that she would be attracted to them. There are always ways to wiggle and make things work.

My own opinion on half-breeds of any sort has always been that they would take the main traits from one parent. That is, a Hyur and Miqo'te couple could have a Hyur or a Miqo'te child, not a mixture of the two, and when instances of combining clans occur they'd appear as a Seeker or a Keeper. That sort of thing. That's just based on the lack of mixing of traits that I've seen in game (except for that silly Seeker in trailers who has Keeper markings due to SE changing their mind on something and not being able to adjust her appearance because the CS was too far in development xD). But it obviously DOES happen sometimes: F'lhaminn is a Keeper of the Moon by all appearances (skin tone, eyes, fangs), but has a Seeker of the Sun name.

Khaze'to Zhwan · **07-07-2013, 08:45 AM**

(07-06-2013, 10:36 PM)growly beast Wrote: I'm extremely turned off by the idea of mixing clans and races. The creators clearly intended for them to be separate, and I'm not really a fan of pushing clearly past the limitations they've set for us. It feels like an unnecessary complexity. I personally enjoy working within the constraints given to me.

Also, romance probably doesn't work the same way at all for miqo'te as it does for us as humans. Seekers, especially, are polygamous and monogamy seems to be unheard of. Just another lore-breaking item, taking away key things that make miqo'te who they are.

Whilst they might have made it separate they have made examples in lore of the clans intermingling at least a little and have stated that when it does happen they get exiled. Â It would be interesting for you to keep that view point in game and actively role playing that side of the tribal bias and hate of inbreeding.

(07-07-2013, 02:48 AM)Aysun Wrote: My own opinion on half-breeds of any sort has always been that they would take the main traits from one parent. That is, a Hyur and Miqo'te couple could have a Hyur or a Miqo'te child, not a mixture of the two, and when instances of combining clans occur they'd appear as a Seeker or a Keeper. That sort of thing. That's just based on the lack of mixing of traits that I've seen in game (except for that silly Seeker in trailers who has Keeper markings due to SE changing their mind on something and not being able to adjust her appearance because the CS was too far in development xD). But it obviously DOES happen sometimes: F'lhaminn is a Keeper of the Moon by all appearances (skin tone, eyes, fangs), but has a Seeker of the Sun name.

I think you might get children heavily following one parent or the other but I don't think a complete lock out of one sides genetics would happen. Â I also think that you could have both sides of the family represented in the children so some are more from keepers say while others have a seekers looks.

The fact that the different species can mate throws open a whole lot of interesting questions. Â Could it be that long ago we all looked the same and have diverged from that pattern, if so what did the base stock look like. Â Also with out any lore set in stone about it other than that they can breed we could have a situation on our hands where the offspring or their offspring are infertile and couldn't mate at all. Â There is also just the logistics of such a paring, some just would not work from a biological role point (lala/roe). Â Sorry for going off on one but I study behaviour and biology so this is really interesting to me.

Ryanti · **07-07-2013, 09:25 AM**

(07-07-2013, 08:45 AM)Khazeto Zhwan Wrote:
(07-07-2013, 02:48 AM)Aysun Wrote: My own opinion on half-breeds of any sort has always been that they would take the main traits from one parent. That is, a Hyur and Miqo'te couple could have a Hyur or a Miqo'te child, not a mixture of the two, and when instances of combining clans occur they'd appear as a Seeker or a Keeper. That sort of thing. That's just based on the lack of mixing of traits that I've seen in game (except for that silly Seeker in trailers who has Keeper markings due to SE changing their mind on something and not being able to adjust her appearance because the CS was too far in development xD). But it obviously DOES happen sometimes: F'lhaminn is a Keeper of the Moon by all appearances (skin tone, eyes, fangs), but has a Seeker of the Sun name.
I think you might get children heavily following one parent or the other but I don't think a complete lock out of one sides genetics would happen. Â I also think that you could have both sides of the family represented in the children so some are more from keepers say while others have a seekers looks.

The fact that the different species can mate throws open a whole lot of interesting questions. Â Could it be that long ago we all looked the same and have diverged from that pattern, if so what did the base stock look like. Â Also with out any lore set in stone about it other than that they can breed we could have a situation on our hands where the offspring or their offspring are infertile and couldn't mate at all. Â There is also just the logistics of such a paring, some just would not work from a biological role point (lala/roe). Â Sorry for going off on one but I study behaviour and biology so this is really interesting to me.

Common consensus is such where, because we can't in-game, make half-breeds, that the commonly accepted facet of taking main traits of one parent was the conclusion we came up with. So I am definitely with Aysun there.

Stuff like hair color, eye color, skin complexion etc. can contribute from both parents, but y'know, we really can't do something like make a half-genetic person in-game, so that's pretty much the rules we have to work with for now.

I see it as dominant/recessive genes. Human recessive genes, for example, allow us to have one thumb on each hand. If we had the dominant gene of two thumbs per hand.. we would have two thumbs per hand.

Ryanti's ears and tail and slender feline shape are dominantly Miqo'te. While his face, height, hair, etc. are dominantly Hyur. Genetically speaking. If the genes flipfopped recessive to dominant and vice versa, Ryanti would have Hyur ears and no tail. But then he could still have a slender body frame. You can play with it.

That doesn't include clan interbreeding, though... which.. I have not looked into and currently have no real.. say about that because of it.

I never really thought about the whole infertile question. But infertility only really happens with either chimeras, or animal hybrids in which it is just plain difficult to breed unless forced. Or, y'know, more difficult then usual.

As far as my situation goes, with Hyur/Miqo'te.. most of us in the RPC with that specific pairing have reached a common consensus that Hyurs and Miqo'tes can breed normally, without complications. Most of the time.

Ryanti himself is a stable organism XD and he's fertile. It is just, y'know, his children will have Miqo'te features. His 'Hyur' side is his hair, his eyes, and the structure of his face, which is less feline, and also his canines being less pronounced. Also, he's taller then average Miqo'te. That's how I've written it out anyhow.

Plus, I picture places like the depths of Ul'Dah and Limsa to be rather morally loose. So interspecial.. pairings would probably happen more commonly then expected. Hence why I find it difficult to believe that you are pushing nature or created an infertile .. thing, from doing such a thing.

Azthran · **07-07-2013, 09:55 AM**

This is also a fantasy setting and as much as I personally like to take a step back and look at it in a sort of grounded and 'realistic' view (Such as those shadey areas in the cities where questionable acts have most likely happened.) it still comes down to it being a fantasy setting so our real world genetics might not apply and for all we know the eatherite could also have some effect on things.
Just my 2 gil anyways.

Rinh Hallani · **07-07-2013, 09:57 AM**

I plan on playing Miqo'te but haven't found enough lore to satisfy me, so thanks to everyone who answered questions here. I also have a question: my Miqo'te's name starts with K and the naming conventions state that her tribe's totem would therefore be the Hipparion. Does anyone know what that is? I've looked around and can only gather it's a sort of horse, as the name is an extinct species of horse in our world.

Azthran · **07-07-2013, 10:06 AM**

(07-07-2013, 09:57 AM)katattax Wrote: I plan on playing Miqo'te but haven't found enough lore to satisfy me, so thanks to everyone who answered questions here. I also have a question: my Miqo'te's name starts with K and the naming conventions state that her tribe's totem would therefore be the Hipparion. Does anyone know what that is? I've looked around and can only gather it's a sort of horse, as the name is an extinct species of horse in our world.

I'm going to go ahead and say that it may actually be that extinct horse or something similar considering some of the other totems are of real world animals such as the bear or viper and I haven't seen any representations of them in game yet. On the other hand I could be completely wrong as this is just speculation afterall. XD

Khaze'to Zhwan · **07-07-2013, 10:11 AM**

Sorry If I didn't really make my self clear. Â I was only really postulating on the clans interbreeding rather than the races/species. Â I don't really know where I stand on that one as I haven't seen any lore about it either way other than that it can happen. Â

I agree with one side being dominant but its like a blonde haired child appearing in a dark haired family, most of the children will be dark but you could have a blonde appear. Â Again this is only on the clans basis. Â And yeah we don't know how strongly genetics effects offspring and characteristics in this game, It might not at all as Azthran said. Â Just putting forward the "science" side of the debate.

Aysun · **07-07-2013, 11:30 AM**

(07-07-2013, 08:45 AM)Khaze Wrote: I think you might get children heavily following one parent or the other but I don't think a complete lock out of one sides genetics would happen. Â I also think that you could have both sides of the family represented in the children so some are more from keepers say while others have a seekers looks.

The fact that the different species can mate throws open a whole lot of interesting questions. Â Could it be that long ago we all looked the same and have diverged from that pattern, if so what did the base stock look like. Â Also with out any lore set in stone about it other than that they can breed we could have a situation on our hands where the offspring or their offspring are infertile and couldn't mate at all. Â There is also just the logistics of such a paring, some just would not work from a biological role point (lala/roe). Â Sorry for going off on one but I study behaviour and biology so this is really interesting to me.

S'allright. I'm a scientist too IRL. I know that in the real world, there'd be cross over since clans are more like our human RACES IRL. I'm just going off what I see in game (If one actually got passed the cultural differences of the more tribal ones and did mix clans, there's no evidence of clan traits mixing other than the tail options now becoming non-clan specific. You just don't see ashen skin-tone Seekers of the Sun or Keepers born without fangs, and such). Of course, genetic flukes can happen I'm sure. And this is just my opinion on things based on my own observations.

Rinh Hallani · **07-07-2013, 03:26 PM**

(07-07-2013, 10:06 AM)Azthran Wrote: I'm going to go ahead and say that it may actually be that extinct horse or something similar considering some of the other totems are of real world animals such as the bear or viper and I haven't seen any representations of them in game yet. On the other hand I could be completely wrong as this is just speculation afterall. XD

Alright, thanks!

Nnejo · **07-07-2013, 07:15 PM**

(07-06-2013, 10:36 PM)growly beast Wrote: I'm extremely turned off by the idea of mixing clans and races. The creators clearly intended for them to be separate, and I'm not really a fan of pushing clearly past the limitations they've set for us. It feels like an unnecessary complexity. I personally enjoy working within the constraints given to me.

Also, romance probably doesn't work the same way at all for miqo'te as it does for us as humans. Seekers, especially, are polygamous and monogamy seems to be unheard of. Just another lore-breaking item, taking away key things that make miqo'te who they are.

I think the thing to remember with these type of things is that no one will really know that our pair is together. Especially since their coupling will have made them both exiles. I don't intend to go around town hand holding and making kissy faces at his Keeper, because that (in my Seeker's eyes) would be, "...like spitting in everyone's face." We have never really roleplayed the types of characters who doted on public displays of affection even when we chose the same race/sub race in a game.

And "pushing past the limitations set for us" is often times some of the most fun roleplay I have had. Now I certainly don't want to bend the lore but I am curious, at what point would such intermingling happen? And after being exiled from their respective clans would the pair still be likely to receive such harassment outside of their homeland?

Khaze'to Zhwan · **07-07-2013, 07:35 PM**

(07-07-2013, 07:15 PM)Isis Wrote:
(07-06-2013, 10:36 PM)growly beast Wrote: I'm extremely turned off by the idea of mixing clans and races. The creators clearly intended for them to be separate, and I'm not really a fan of pushing clearly past the limitations they've set for us. It feels like an unnecessary complexity. I personally enjoy working within the constraints given to me.

Also, romance probably doesn't work the same way at all for miqo'te as it does for us as humans. Seekers, especially, are polygamous and monogamy seems to be unheard of. Just another lore-breaking item, taking away key things that make miqo'te who they are.

I think the thing to remember with these type of things is that no one will really know that our pair is together. Especially since their coupling will have made them both exiles. I don't intend to go around town hand holding and making kissy faces at his Keeper, because that (in my Seeker's eyes) would be, "...like spitting in everyone's face." We have never really roleplayed the types of characters who doted on public displays of affection even when we chose the same race/sub race in a game.

And "pushing past the limitations set for us" is often times some of the most fun roleplay I have had. Now I certainly don't want to bend the lore but I am curious, at what point would such intermingling happen? And after being exiled from their respective clans would the pair still be likely to receive such harassment outside of their homeland?

I would say that the limitations of the game are kinda there to be pushed to an extent for RP, Â The game doesn't say that you can be a clock maker or a sailor but people still will RP it and so they should. Â However that's the limitations that the games set on us and not the lore its self. Â

The main issue is indeed the culture points that people have mentioned before. Â In the tribal states the keepers conduct affairs at night due to their nocturnal natures. Â However I would say that if any individual spent any time in the company of the other races they could very easily adjust to a more diurnal lifestyle. Â Look at all the city Keepers. Â

And as to who would judge and harasses them I would say only Miqo'te who took the tribal laws as seriously as those who exiled them in the first place, such as perhaps Growly beasts Miqo'te. I doubt other races would care that much as a general rule and the same for those Miqo'te who have adjusted to a more urban lifestyle.

FreelanceWizard · **07-07-2013, 08:12 PM**

(07-07-2013, 07:15 PM)Isis Wrote: And after being exiled from their respective clans would the pair still be likely to receive such harassment outside of their homeland?

This depends entirely on the miqo'te in question. Adventurers and those who live in the city-states are likely to fall into the "don't care/are unaware of" or "actively hostile" camps regarding tribal miqo'te traditions. However, you can't be sure of how other characters are going to react to your characters. While the devs have said that the average Eorzean is typically fairly tolerant, even a worldly miqo'te adventurer might find it "icky" that a Seeker and a Keeper are having a relationship -- a response similar to racism in real life. It's also entirely possible to run into a miqo'te adventurer who still holds to the tribal ways, such as a tia gaining strength to challenge his tribe's nunh, and that character is likely to be rather displeased to see the relationship.

TBH, just remember that IC Actions Equal IC Consequences and that you can't predict the behavior of other PCs. Smile

You may take some lumps IC for your character's romantic activities when/if they become known. Be prepared for that and you'll be fine.

Nnejo · **07-07-2013, 08:53 PM**

(07-07-2013, 08:12 PM)FreelanceWizard Wrote:
(07-07-2013, 07:15 PM)Isis Wrote: And after being exiled from their respective clans would the pair still be likely to receive such harassment outside of their homeland?

This depends entirely on the miqo'te in question. Adventurers and those who live in the city-states are likely to fall into the "don't care/are unaware of" or "actively hostile" camps regarding tribal miqo'te traditions. However, you can't be sure of how other characters are going to react to your characters. While the devs have said that the average Eorzean is typically fairly tolerant, even a worldly miqo'te adventurer might find it "icky" that a Seeker and a Keeper are having a relationship -- a response similar to racism in real life. It's also entirely possible to run into a miqo'te adventurer who still holds to the tribal ways, such as a tia gaining strength to challenge his tribe's nunh, and that character is likely to be rather displeased to see the relationship.

TBH, just remember that IC Actions Equal IC Consequences and that you can't predict the behavior of other PCs. You may take some lumps IC for your character's romantic activities when/if they become known. Be prepared for that and you'll be fine.

I typically approach everything involving my character in that sense, very little actually bothers me from an IC standpoint. If a person's character doesn't like my Miqo'te I wont be too affected OC about it. I think I will continue with my idea however, its always interesting to see how others reacted to things outside the social norm as it pertains to them.

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