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Aldeus · **08-11-2013, 12:19 AM**

Dear Customer,

We are writing to inform you that we have suspended your access to the FINAL FANTASY XIV: A Realm Reborn Beta Tester Forum because on 08-10-2013 you breached the FINAL FANTASY XIV:A Realm Reborn Beta Tester Forum Guidelines.

Thread Title:
Arguments For Marriage Equality in Eorzea

Relevant sections from the FINAL FANTASY XIV Guidelines:
Posting aimed to create a negative impact on the community or its members.
Posting that constitutes discrimination against another forum member or group (also including forming groups for the purpose of discrimination), insults, slander, libel, harassment of a group or individual.
Posting spam, including meaningless characters and white space.

Original Post:
Recently it was announced that marriage would be a feature within Final Fantasy 14 ARR. The system as of now, is planned to be for opposite gendered couples only, with the possibility of same gendered marriages being implemented based on player feedback. I argue that waiting for this feedback is, statistically speaking, a complete waste of time. The numbers already exist to indicate that the players of the afore mentioned game approve of same sex marriage by a wide margin. Let's consider the following, using the United States, a traditionally conservative country, as a model.

- Among millennials (people born after 1980), support for same sex marriage is over 70%

- Among people born after 1965, support for same sex marriage is over 50%

- According to the Entertainment Software Association's 2013 data, the average age of video game players is 30, with 64% of all players falling in the millennial category.

These numbers alone show that a good majority of video game players (if not a substantial majority), support same sex marriage. Assuming that Final Fantasy 14 players fall within the "video game players" demographic, it's quite easy to see in advance that support among the player base would be high.

Square Enix is running a business though, and I understand that. After the debacle that was the initial release of Final Fantasy 14, and all the hard work they've put in to revitalizing the game, I can understand that they don't want any niggling distractions to keep any potential players away. Fortunately, there are real world examples to show that SE shouldn't be afraid to implement same sex marriage.

First, let's look at the Old Republic. Bioware has a history of offering same sex relationships in their game, and well before their game launched, they stated that they intended to continue that tradition within the Old Republic. The usual suspects came out in protest, the American Family Association, One Million Moms, ect. (people who don't play video games in any real numbers by the way), but Bioware was warmly received by the video game community. When the game launched, they had over 1 million subscribers within the first 3 days. The game ultimately took a tumble in the numbers, but that can in no way be attributed to the same sex marriage "controversy".

Next let's look at Trion's game RIFT. In one of the game's post launch patches, they implemented a marriage system without gender restrictions. There was no controversy, there was no fall out, but they did set the record for most marriages in a video game in a single day when the patch went live.

Historically, video game developers who have taken the bold step of supporting equality have been rewarded for their bravery by the good will of their player bases. There will always be detractors, but support for the issue among gamers has been rock solid, and support grows with every new poll. As someone who first realized he was gay thanks to your video games (Kuja you naughty thing), I humbly ask that you consider my arguments in deciding on the fate of marriage equality in Eorzea.

The suspension will last a minimum of 240 hours starting 08-10-2013 23:50 (PDT) during which time you will be unable to log in to the FINAL FANTASY XIV: A Realm Reborn Beta Tester Forum.

For information on prohibited activities in the FINAL FANTASY XIV: A Realm Reborn Beta Tester Forum, please refer to the Square Enix Account Terms of Use, FINAL FANTASY XIV User Agreement, and the FINAL FANTASY XIV: A Realm Reborn Beta Tester Forum Guidelines.

NOTE:

Please be aware that during the suspension, we will review the case and determine if you are eligible to use the forums in the future. Depending on the situation, we may decide to take further action by terminating your access to the FINAL FANTASY XI Forum and/or FINAL FANTASY XIV: A Realm Reborn Beta Tester Forum.

In addition, actions taken against an account are accumulative. If you persist in violating the FINAL FANTASY XIV: A Realm Reborn Beta Test User Agreement, we may terminate your access to the FINAL FANTASY XI Forum and/or FINAL FANTASY XIV Forum. We therefore ask that you do not repeat this behavior, and that you review the FINAL FANTASY XIV Forum Guidelines.
http://support.na.square-enix.com/rule.p...=betaforum

If you suspect the violation resulted from unauthorized access to the account or the actions of an unauthorized third party who is not your parent or legal guardian, or if there are other points you wish to clarify, please review the following information on the SQUARE ENIX Support Center.
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-SQUARE ENIX Account Administrator

Naunet · **08-11-2013, 12:24 AM**

Wow. :\ I guess we know where Squeenix's true colors lie...

Domri Blackblade · **08-11-2013, 12:26 AM**

I just hopped over to the forums and it looks like a huge cleaning house just happened. All marriage threads, all casuals suck threads, and all the stuff is just poof.

And it's a shame you got lumped into this because... your post was actually productive. That's very disappointing.

shotgunbadger · **08-11-2013, 12:26 AM**

Guys Square's totally in our corner. Frustrated

Arelian · **08-11-2013, 12:26 AM**

I can't think of any public forum in existence that wouldn't have taken the same action, honestly. It wasn't worded in a way that opened discussion and had no real place on the forums. It would have created 1 thing and only 1 thing at the end of the day.

A massive shitstorm that only invites foul language and the kind of thing that has to be kept off of forums, much less beta forums.

The contents would have been much better suited for an open-letter of sorts, not a post on their beta forums.

Sorry to see you got suspended, though!

Yeldir Melfusor · **08-11-2013, 12:27 AM**

That is very strange. Do you have a link to the original thread? In my wildest imaginings, I can't wrap my head around how this would be construed as an attempt to antagonize the community. Your OP is so reasonable.

Aysun · **08-11-2013, 12:28 AM**

I guess I'll uhh.. just state the obvious. They thought that you were discriminating AGAINST same-sex marriage being implemented in game. Some of your sentences were not clear as to which side you were on, despite posting what seemed like supporting evidence in favor of same-sex marriage in game.

"The system as of now, is planned to be for opposite gendered couples only, with the possibility of same gendered marriages being implemented based on player feedback. I argue that waiting for this feedback is, statistically speaking, a complete waste of time."

Lost in translation, probably?

Aldeus · **08-11-2013, 12:29 AM**

(08-11-2013, 12:26 AM)Sylas Wrote: I can't think of any public forum in existence that wouldn't have taken the same action, honestly. It wasn't worded in a way that opened discussion and had no real place on the forums. It would have created 1 thing and only 1 thing at the end of the day.

A massive shitstorm that only invites foul language and the kind of thing that has to be kept off of forums, much less beta forums.

The contents would have been much better suited for an open-letter of sorts, not a post on their beta forums.

Sorry to see you got suspended, though!

How can person A be held responsible for person B's ignorant, repulsive response to person A's thoughtful and polite argument?

(08-11-2013, 12:28 AM)Aysun Wrote: I guess I'll uhh.. just state the obvious. They thought that you were discriminating AGAINST same-sex marriage being implemented in game. Some of your sentences were not clear as to which side you were on, despite posting what seemed like supporting evidence in favor of same-sex marriage in game.

"The system as of now, is planned to be for opposite gendered couples only, with the possibility of same gendered marriages being implemented based on player feedback. I argue that waiting for this feedback is, statistically speaking, a complete waste of time."

Lost in translation, probably?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say the English forum moderators speak English, considering the game has a complete English version.

Arelian · **08-11-2013, 12:31 AM**

(08-11-2013, 12:29 AM)Aldeus Wrote:
(08-11-2013, 12:26 AM)Sylas Wrote: I can't think of any public forum in existence that wouldn't have taken the same action, honestly. It wasn't worded in a way that opened discussion and had no real place on the forums. It would have created 1 thing and only 1 thing at the end of the day.

A massive shitstorm that only invites foul language and the kind of thing that has to be kept off of forums, much less beta forums.

The contents would have been much better suited for an open-letter of sorts, not a post on their beta forums.

Sorry to see you got suspended, though!

How can person A be held responsible for person B's ignorant, repulsive response to person A's thoughtful and polite argument?

Because, and I'm not trying to be inflammatory here, common sense dictates that this is a volatile-enough subject to incite very wild reactions.

Spiritual Machine · **08-11-2013, 12:36 AM**

(08-11-2013, 12:31 AM)Sylas Wrote:
(08-11-2013, 12:29 AM)Aldeus Wrote:
(08-11-2013, 12:26 AM)Sylas Wrote: I can't think of any public forum in existence that wouldn't have taken the same action, honestly. It wasn't worded in a way that opened discussion and had no real place on the forums. It would have created 1 thing and only 1 thing at the end of the day.

A massive shitstorm that only invites foul language and the kind of thing that has to be kept off of forums, much less beta forums.

The contents would have been much better suited for an open-letter of sorts, not a post on their beta forums.

Sorry to see you got suspended, though!

How can person A be held responsible for person B's ignorant, repulsive response to person A's thoughtful and polite argument?
Because, and I'm not trying to be inflammatory here, common sense dictates that this is a volatile-enough subject to incite very wild reactions.

Or to put it more simply, ever heard of trolling? Like, the original variety of trolling, where a thoughtful and polite argument is made regarding something guaranteed to stir up heated contention?

You can understand English and still screw up your context.

Aldeus · **08-11-2013, 12:38 AM**

(08-11-2013, 12:36 AM)Spiritual Machine Wrote:
(08-11-2013, 12:31 AM)Sylas Wrote:
(08-11-2013, 12:29 AM)Aldeus Wrote:
(08-11-2013, 12:26 AM)Sylas Wrote: I can't think of any public forum in existence that wouldn't have taken the same action, honestly. It wasn't worded in a way that opened discussion and had no real place on the forums. It would have created 1 thing and only 1 thing at the end of the day.

A massive shitstorm that only invites foul language and the kind of thing that has to be kept off of forums, much less beta forums.

The contents would have been much better suited for an open-letter of sorts, not a post on their beta forums.

Sorry to see you got suspended, though!

How can person A be held responsible for person B's ignorant, repulsive response to person A's thoughtful and polite argument?
Because, and I'm not trying to be inflammatory here, common sense dictates that this is a volatile-enough subject to incite very wild reactions.
Or to put it more simply, ever heard of trolling? Like, the original variety of trolling, where a thoughtful and polite argument is made regarding something guaranteed to stir up heated contention?

You can understand English and still screw up your context.

By your logic, the March on Washington was trolling.

Reppu · **08-11-2013, 12:38 AM**

I'm trying to find the original, big thread about this. Mostly, the moderator closing post, and what they were asking people to do, and not to do.

That said, yes. In a manner of looking at it, you may have been suspended due to how your approach could be viewed. I could suggest you fight it and clarify yourself, but it does depend on what we were asked to do in the previous thread on the official forums, before it got shut down.

You may want to check that out, but ugh. Forum digging.

Tiergan · **08-11-2013, 12:40 AM**

I'm really just hoping you got lumped in with a bunch of bad eggs when they were 'cleaning house' as someone else mentioned.

Their response seems extremely excessive. I do think that you should send this as an actual letter to the devs though.

Ashren Dotharl · **08-11-2013, 12:40 AM**

Keep in mind that just because 70% of a demographic supports something, and 64% of something else is made up of that demographic, it does not mean that 70% of that 64% supports it. For all you know, 90% of the 64% demographic are made up of the 30% that DON'T support same sex marriage.

Spiritual Machine · **08-11-2013, 12:41 AM**

(08-11-2013, 12:38 AM)Aldeus Wrote:
(08-11-2013, 12:36 AM)Spiritual Machine Wrote:
(08-11-2013, 12:31 AM)Sylas Wrote:
(08-11-2013, 12:29 AM)Aldeus Wrote:
(08-11-2013, 12:26 AM)Sylas Wrote: I can't think of any public forum in existence that wouldn't have taken the same action, honestly. It wasn't worded in a way that opened discussion and had no real place on the forums. It would have created 1 thing and only 1 thing at the end of the day.

A massive shitstorm that only invites foul language and the kind of thing that has to be kept off of forums, much less beta forums.

The contents would have been much better suited for an open-letter of sorts, not a post on their beta forums.

Sorry to see you got suspended, though!

How can person A be held responsible for person B's ignorant, repulsive response to person A's thoughtful and polite argument?
Because, and I'm not trying to be inflammatory here, common sense dictates that this is a volatile-enough subject to incite very wild reactions.
Or to put it more simply, ever heard of trolling? Like, the original variety of trolling, where a thoughtful and polite argument is made regarding something guaranteed to stir up heated contention?

You can understand English and still screw up your context.

By your logic, the March on Washington was trolling.

The worst revolutions begin on forums.

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RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes