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| Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view |
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RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view |
09-01-2013, 01:50 PM
(This post was last modified: 09-01-2013, 01:53 PM by Jules.)
(09-01-2013, 01:36 PM)Uther Wrote: Yeah, the obsession with miqo'te doing it is a little weird to me. You might be putting way more thought into it than Square intended, and while I'm all for exploring different aspects of cultures and whatnot, it's strange to me that this one is by far the most popular. As a Miqo'te roleplayer I'm inclined to agree. Why is this there such a huge focus on this? It's bordering creepy, in my most humble of opinions. 
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RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view |
09-01-2013, 01:59 PM
(This post was last modified: 09-01-2013, 02:24 PM by Sigyn Shieldbreaker.)
(09-01-2013, 01:18 PM)Velkyron Wrote: While some of the conjecture is interesting, I really don't see the point of it.  From playing WoW, I found two things kind of annoying about Elves and lifespans. Gestational periods and the rate of growth. I mean, Elfquest bothered to mention that their elves had 'lovemates' and 'lifemates' and that played a fairly large role in their mentality towards their own people as well as non-Elves. In Warcraft Kaldorei (Night Elves) and Quel'dorei have two very different lifespans which is usually just connected to the end of their immortality with the death of the original World Tree. But there -are- new Kaldorei being born, you see the little babies around the World, so just how long do they remain babies? Do they age rapidly, like a human, to around twenty or twenty-five and start slowing down for a couple hundred years? Do they age slowly, taking until their hundred and forty-fifth years (for Nelfs, 110 for Helfs/Belfs, I think) to reach physical maturity as well as some 'coming of age' ceremony? How long are they pregnant? I mean, plenty of roleplayers love to have their characters have babies and as it's usually a natural part of any living species' lifelong aspiration to at some point reproduce and propagate their species. Are you going to be pregnant for decades or years or months or weeks? Who knows? Blizzard doesn't. So yes, technically, it's open to interpretation, but when you have five pregnant Belfs and they're all having babies at remarkably different paces, you sort of long for something a bit more substantial to go off of so that it feels more like a fantasy world and less like a bunch of inconsistent fanfictions written all in the same setting. Biological and cultural situations for races should have 'norms' in a series and they can't all be taken from human physiology because it doesn't always make a lot of sense. Writers for games don't always take the time to write it all up, likely because 80% of their player base just doesn't care about anything other than the mechanics and their personal storyline in the game. Individuals are influenced by culture, whether they are 'stereotypical' or 'standard' or they're an exception to the rule of their people. Culture, in turn, is heavily influenced by social/sexual standpoints; a Miqo'te who is used to sharing their men or seeing their mothers or sisters sharing men with other females might approach a relationship differently than a Hyur or a Roegadyn, or anyone else for that matter, expecting it to be something open. Especially with inter-species relationships. Singular romance, in cultures that include polygamy or open-relationships, seems to tend to not be quite as important in the relationship depending on the arrangement, whether it's a social status need or a need to have more behbies thing. This information might not effect everyone, it might only be a theory, but if one Seeker of the Sun Miqo'te thinks having one male and sharing him with a bunch of females is normal and another one doesn't but they're the same basic race, perhaps even from the same area, how does that make any realistic sense? Immersion is disrupted when inconsistencies like that arise. Isn't roleplay about immersion as much as creativity these days? We like our lore and we like to feel involved in it even if we have no way to change or influence what's there. If they didn't want us thinking silly things about Miqo'tes and their breeding habits, they never should've given us a little taste of how different they could be between their two 'factions' as well as how they could be from Hyur. So, in short, in my opinion, the point of it is not only to express some deep thinking, linking what -has- been given together in a way that does appear to make sense like sticking fossilized bones together to figure out how a dinosaur was built, but also to give a potential of what PCs of the race might be used to. Miqo'tes were the only race that were only female, we had both male Highlanders and male Roegadyns before, which would've denoted that females were more numerous. That must have -some- impact on the males as well as females of the species, their culture, and their individual personalities in regards to other PCs they'll meet, even if it's something small like seeing men as being inferior or superior depending on how they were raised to see them until such a time that they realized that other races had their own different cultures to come to terms with. Whether or not any given roleplayer wants or needs that information is superfluous; it might just add a little more 'realism' to someone's play. Many RPers tend to get really antsy and defensive over ERP and so when one thinks about going into detail about breeding habits and 'revolving around sex', ERP seems like it must be the primary motivation behind it. But romances are okay, they're going to happen, and many of us can be as aloof and mature as we want to be about 'not getting involved in romance because it just causes a ton of drama', but we'll probably still do it if only because -not- doing it isn't always in line with the characters we create and drama can start over anything in any environment because... well... people. Taking all that aside, you could still use a theory like this to formulate a previously unexplored or refined detail to your character's potential personality, assuming you played a Miqo, and the way they handle individuals of other races. Also, even if there was no point to it, why would that matter? It's interesting and this person obviously put a lot of thought into it. Isn't that enough reason to share it? Appending this-- @ Velkyron, I'll be playing a Roegadyn as well and if there was a single tidbit of information to go off of to formulate some aspect to my Roe's personality that regards a matter such as this, I'd take it and I'd probably want to take into consideration how it might affect my character's views on the world. Having a limited view from the start allows for expanding horizons. So far I know only that Male Roes were playable before and women weren't which means either 1. Females were rare or 2. Females weren't considered warriors or travelers or 3. Females looked virtually indistinguishable from males which is apparently not the case. There are probably more reasons than those three (having male Roes opposite female Miqos for non-lore reasons not withstanding), but with every extra one I get a little bit more confused. Male-dominated societies, however, are more prominent amongst humans and so there's more to relate to. Women-dominant societies aren't quite as numerous + Miqos are the super race of FFXIV that tons of people want to play, so it's understandable that they went into a teensy bit more depth about them. Personally, I'd prefer for them to flesh it all out so I could treat a race like a living cultural race with their likes, dislikes, and general views instead of basing it so much off of my own knowledge. I don't want to be super emotionally-connected to my character and putting even more of my mind into her mind makes that difficult. @ Uther, Jules, We realize, of course, that SE is a video game company not a table-top roleplaying game writer. This is a game, with mechanics, it has aspects FOR RPers and it's a roleplaying game but it's not 100 percent dedicated to the RP community. In fact, not very much of it is. Yes, it's pretty, yes it's got good races to play, but that's more of the individuals who'll be running the gauntlet for the long-term gameplay than anyone wanting to come in and write stories about it. SEX is normal for species that reproduce and I'd love to know if any of these races are asexual, it's probably important to note if they are. Others might be treating this race obsessively, but I don't think this person's theory is obsessive by any means just because it's depthy. ![[Image: ohkg_zpsca8eb911.png]](http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y159/lunar_kitsune/ohkg_zpsca8eb911.png)  (Click images for link the Grindstone Page.)
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RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view |
09-01-2013, 02:02 PM
I don't think this subject is the most popular (there's... one thread dedicated to the matter). It is, however, the most difficult to understand, at least for me.
 I read this thread trying to figure out what my Miqo'te's views are supposed to be, and especially trying to figure out how to make her avoid breeding in a way that would still make sense from a Miqo'te perspective. I'm a romantic human being and my first inclination is to make my Miqo'te believe in romantic love, but I can't RP her like that, and thus I'm thankful that this matter was discussed.  Now, I just wish that people would stop being so defensive and aggressive about this matter. No one is discussing how Miqo'tes do it. Rather, what's being discussed are their views. There's no need to come to threads you're personally not interested in just to complain about their existence o.oa And if you didn't understand why this could be useful to anyone, now you should know. ![[Image: banner2_zpsba85b875.jpg]](http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg292/kurosaki_akane/banner2_zpsba85b875.jpg) Clover Blake (Hyur) / K'mih Yohko (Miqo'te)
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RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view |
09-01-2013, 02:06 PM
I haven't read any of the recent pages of this thread, but in the defence of the topic its merely that people wanted to gather a better understanding of traditions and what they must adjust to or presume will be the case where information is missing. While you say that not everything has to be "by the book" in every case or so to speak, not everyone wants to be the exception and deviate from the lore just to spare themselves the effort of doing a little research and discussion.
Frankly, I don't see why everyone has to keep jumping to the same comment.. "Geez, why are you so obsessed about sex?" That is not, I repeat, not... what this topic is about. People making such comments are the ones making it seem like something it really isn't and it has been discussed and argued before. ![[Image: ecec20e41f.png]](https://puu.sh/xvMxb/ecec20e41f.png) Characters: Andre Winter (Hy'ur) / K'nahli Yohko (Miqo'te)
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RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view |
09-01-2013, 02:15 PM
(This post was last modified: 09-01-2013, 02:19 PM by Cato.)
(09-01-2013, 01:50 PM)Jules Wrote: Yeah, 'creepy' sums it up rather nicely. I'm not going to point fingers but it's no coincidence that some of the folk getting really into this discussion are the same role-players trying to mate with any and every female miqo'te comes their way. One of my close friends has already given up trying to role-play a miqo'te because not one, but three different 'nunh' characters sent her messages asking if she wanted to bed them. Perhaps it's unfair of me to stereotype but I'm beginning to think the majority of 'nunh' role-players are simply embracing the role purely to get their rocks off. Like it or not, this is the sort of thing that needs to be addressed early on before it festers and ends up driving a wedge between various groups within the community. There's a time and a place for ERP and that is between two consenting and mature partners in private chat channels, not hanging around Costa del Sol whispering passing players asking if they want to be impregnated.
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RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view |
09-01-2013, 02:26 PM
(This post was last modified: 09-01-2013, 02:29 PM by Sigyn Shieldbreaker.)
(09-01-2013, 02:15 PM)Theodric Brandt Wrote:(09-01-2013, 01:50 PM)Jules Wrote: As 'really into this discussion' as I feel like I'm becoming, I wasn't aware that I was trying to mate with any and every female Miqo'te coming my way. Ladies, are any of you interested in taking up with a red-skinned lady-Roe? We outnumber our men like three-to-one anyway.  Seriously, though, your close friend shouldn't let others and their ERP desires dictate what she wants to do with her own character. I don't avoid leaving my house every day just because people like to tell me how to live my life at Wal-mart. Terrible example, but, if she truly loves the character and she's original, then what's it matter what guys are doing? Three just isn't a big enough number. Thirty or three hundred over the span of a couple months with no other decent RPers coming around might be understandable, but to each their own-- I just find it hard to think of a Miqo that hasn't been thought of yet.  (Click images for link the Grindstone Page.)
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RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view |
09-01-2013, 02:33 PM
(This post was last modified: 09-01-2013, 02:37 PM by Uther.)
(09-01-2013, 02:26 PM)Siobhain Wrote:(09-01-2013, 02:15 PM)Theodric Brandt Wrote: some of the folk getting really into this discussion So, I highlighted some words for you to look at on the above post for future reference. Of course by "some" he could have meant "all", and more specifically, "You, Siobhain."
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RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view |
09-01-2013, 02:36 PM
(09-01-2013, 02:15 PM)Theodric Brandt Wrote:(09-01-2013, 01:50 PM)Jules Wrote: This is commonplace in just about every single game with a degree of an RP community. ERPers are the black sheep of our large, diverse family, but as with most families, we can't really get rid of them. They come to our family reunions and eat our food, even when we make it clear that we really don't like them too much. If there is a single angle for them to, as you say, get their rocks off, they will. In this game, it just so happens to be the Nunh aspect. In CoH, if you went into Pocket D in leather and fishnets, you'd get a dozen tells from S&M types. They were rampant there. In WoW, it was half-naked Night Elves on inn room tables. And so on and so forth. But I don't really get where this is relevant to the discussion. This is no different than wanting to know the intricacies of a race's backstory. These details are worth thinking about on the off-chance that you may need to know these things for your own character. About me | About my characters
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RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view |
09-01-2013, 02:36 PM
(09-01-2013, 02:15 PM)Theodric Brandt Wrote: Yeah, 'creepy' sums it up rather nicely. I'm not going to point fingers but it's no coincidence that some of the folk getting really into this discussion are the same role-players trying to mate with any and every female miqo'te comes their way.@_@??????? Well, that is indeed creepy, but... are they actually RPers? I mean, three random nunhs (who I assume are from different tribes, for there aren't as many nunhs in a single one AND there aren't many actually organized tribes out there) whispering random Miqo'tes about breeding doesn't sound very IC, unless there's some info I'm missing. Nunhs only breed with females from their own tribes, after all.  To add some contrast to that case, I can talk about mine. We the Hipparion tribe have gathered many members and have our own Nunh (there's a second Nunh, but he's an NPC). I even have him added to Skype, and he's never ever messaged me about this matter. Granted, my Miqo'te is naive and young, but I believe he hasn't approached K'nahli either.  What I mean to say with this is that you can't generalize; it's not safe to assume that everyone who wants to discuss and understand Miqo'te traditions and culture is some sort of a pervert who only wants to ERP ^^a; I certainly am not playing a Miqo'te for that *sweatdrops*. Clover Blake (Hyur) / K'mih Yohko (Miqo'te)
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RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view |
09-01-2013, 02:51 PM
Wow, I didn't expect this discussion to be resurrected after a month of obscurity. For those of you who read the title and not the full discussion, this is not about ERP or perversion. I would suggest reading through the full discussion before jumping to conclusions about the scope of this thread, as that horse has already been beaten around page five and six.
The Chinese culture you're referring to was actually brought up in another thread. Their name is Mosuo if I remember correctly. You can find that thread with a very interesting video and some good discussion here. To give a little perspective on the question of why this post was created, I wrote it in the weeks of downtime between beta phases 3 and 4, when many of the points I made were questions being repeated on multiple threads every few days. I decided it would be nice to gather all the ideas into one comprehensive thread to encourage discussion during a period when we had more questions than answers, no recourse to play the game and seek out actual lore, and a lot of people were trying to figure out the backstory for their Miqo'te characters. (09-01-2013, 01:18 PM)Velkyron Wrote: I see this thread for no other race in this forum: only the Mi'quote. Why? Are us Roegadyn players not good enough? Would Lallafel be considered too weird? Hyur too mundane and elezen be having too much of the pointy ears? I wrote this about Miqo'te for two reasons. First, that's where all the questions and discussion were at the time. Roughly 33% of the population planned to play Miqo'te versus 10% playing Roegadyn, so that's where most of the discussion/conjecture/information-seeking was. Second, I'm playing a Miqo'te, and that's my only character. Others are welcome to start posts about their own character's race or culture, and I'm happy to join in on those discussions. As for the quest option for grand companies to eat babies, that seems to have been a writer's quirk of beta phase three. It was gone when I did my grand company quest a few days after the official launch. They apparently changed the options to be less offensive/controversial, as writers often do when phasing from beta fill-in text to official release. (09-01-2013, 01:36 PM)Uther Wrote:(09-01-2013, 01:18 PM)Velkyron Wrote: While some of the conjecture is interesting, I really don't see the point of it.First of all, +1'ing this. Roughly fifteen reputation boosts for the original post, a handful of very appreciative PMs, three friends requests, and eight pages of generally constructive discussion indicate that this thread was useful and informative to quite a few people. (09-01-2013, 02:15 PM)Theodric Brandt Wrote:(09-01-2013, 01:50 PM)Jules Wrote: All I can say for this is creeps will be creeps. Part of my goal in writing this thread was to encourage intellectual discussion to make the discussion deeper than just "oh he's a nunh, so he must be a creep." The creeps who are playing nunh to creep on girls would find another means to creep on girls even if the nunh category didn't exist, because that's part of their personality. I would be one of the first people to rebuff them for this behavior and blacklist if necessary, as I find it disturbing, disrespectful, and unwarranted. This thread was partly to encourage people who wanted to play nunh but in a respectful and informed manner. I'm a tinker! Tinkerer? Hrm.... I'm an artificer! - Myxie Tryxle | Impressions and Memories
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RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view |
09-01-2013, 03:05 PM
(This post was last modified: 09-01-2013, 03:07 PM by K'nahli.)
(09-01-2013, 02:36 PM)Clover Wrote: To add some contrast to that case, I can talk about mine. We the Hipparion tribe have gathered many members and have our own Nunh (there's a second Nunh, but he's an NPC). I even have him added to Skype, and he's never ever messaged me about this matter. Granted, my Miqo'te is naive and young, but I believe he hasn't approached K'nahli either. Using our tribe as an example plus others I believe, if I recall correctly, from this topic who contributed to the discussion, most if not all people decided to roll with that idea that mating was totally up to the female's discretion and that there was no time period where females were expected to return to their nuhns. It was simply a matter of: Female Miqo'te: ("I feel like settling down and having children") *Mates with nuhn* Basically, we're saying that nuhns exist to be the prime and most desirable male in the tribe, as of current, due to their strength and successful contest against the previous nuhn. Females aren't forced to mate with them but rather they want to because Sunseeking females are culturally attracted to the 'alpha male' as it were rather than having romantic inclinations like humans tend to. There are exceptions but as a general note, female Sunseekers are expected to view nuhns as an ideal mate rather than an unfortunate obligation should they want to bear children. Personally, I will not be RP'ing such a scenario but were it to come up in conversation then she would intend to mate with a nuhn one day, no different from anyone else... but she will have romantic inclinations like we(humans) tend to which may deter from her culture and tribal society. Characters: Andre Winter (Hy'ur) / K'nahli Yohko (Miqo'te)
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RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view |
09-01-2013, 03:12 PM
(This post was last modified: 09-01-2013, 03:15 PM by Cato.)
First of all, I agree wholeheartedly that generalisations and stereotypes are usually a bad thing, but I've played enough MMO's to realise that preventative measures need to be taken - to an extent at least - if we want to ensure that certain races aren't just brushed off or avoided due to an overwhelmingly negative reputation.
To use WoW as an example it was pretty difficult to find female draenei who weren't role-played for the sake of the player behind the character getting their rocks off. In fact, it was rare to find a 'female' draenei that was actually wholly female to begin with but that's getting a little off track. I guess what I'm trying to say is that if the masses begin to see a lot of miqo'te role-play, discussion and character concepts surrounding the 'nunh' and mating aspects of the race then that is the reputation that the race as a whole is going to be stuck with. It's not fair, but that how these things tend to go. As for the discussion itself? I find it to be pretty interesting, though a few responses touch a little too closely into 'creepy' territory for my liking. I enjoy adding realism and cultural themes in my role-play, but that doesn't mean I need to show Theodric going the toilet or for someone to go into explicit detail in regards to how it is 'that time of the month' for their female character. I'd imagine miqo'te mating is somewhat similar - we don't necessarily need to see it going on in explicit detail or ending up as the major driving force behind a particular character concept. Not in public at the very least.
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RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view |
09-01-2013, 03:12 PM
I DO think the title could easily be changed to "Miqo'te Cultural & Biological Influences Explored" and get the same great discussion that it's turned into, since it seems the primary problem certain people are having is the title seeming to place total emphasis on mating... which the thread has clearly made into only one deeper aspect of Miqo'te culture. I also enjoy the idea of threads looking into the same for other cultures, even if they're less played than Miqo'te.
I never played Mithra in 11, nor will I play Miqo'te in 14 (catgirls/catboys just have never held any interest for me), but regardless of more mature exploration in this, it's a great resource and well researched/thought out.
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