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Deirdre · **02-13-2012, 01:19 PM**

Revamping the RP Community Ã¢Â€Â“ by and Elezen who cares

I woke up this morning to a post on the Lodestone front page. This post stated that the Devs are taking back their earlier post, about server merging, and deciding to make a few changes. Now, stop right there, this is not another post complaining about the merges nor a thumbs up for an Official RP server (which I think is still a super idea). It was digging through the posts on the Official Forums that got me thinking.
This is about our RP community, about our RP quality... and about what we should be doing to save it.

Now, I don't want to come off as the one person digging up old dirt. I just want what all of you want, a better RP experience for my Final Fantasy. Look how banded together we are! Forums since before launch, helping us work together and communicate! A LS in the game specifically designed to spark RP! These are used by MANY individuals, and disregarded by too many more! We have to break out of our shells and cliques, this has been preached too often. We've got to experiment and try new things, and most of all a few people have to stand up and rally others! There is no reason our RP should go stagnant, there are too many minds here with great ideas, and not enough effort going in to them.

As I told Miyu this morning, whatever is in the endgamers water, we really need to get for the Rpers.

I understand a characters need to be off from the group, completely! My own is like that, it takes a lot for her to get involved in social things! And yeah, I know you're not going to like everyone that you play with, I for sure don't all the time! But this still does not mean you can't spark some kind of RP, get involved in something that could create exposure for your character or others. This is a team effort! We're one big team, not a league fighting over who is on red side and who is on blue.
And hell, if you don't think your character would be sparking these things, make another force do it! Just like the Aleport party last night. I didn't participate in everything, but I got my RP worth and created a place where others could too.

I also understand your RL obligations. In no way am I saying to throw them away or spend more time on the game. We all have our responsibilities; I have my own place, a full time job and a life. True, I spend a little more time involved in the game than most, but it's not about time as much as it is about communication and effort.

This is the action of one. I can't do it alone.
Forget that the servers are merging, forget that changes are happening in the game nearly every week, forget the OOC conversation where that Lalafell dissed your sweet pink hat. We have been given a decent storyline to start with, there is SO much opportunity. We have to stand up, tighten our tarred belts and take charge of this community we're going to dedicate our time (and money) to!

Draw your IC/OOC lines.
Make events, then make more.
Try Rping with other people, then try Rping with those peoples friends.
Be open to trying other things, and stop criticizing people who do.
Stand up!
And give me a god damned HOO RAH!

Spoiler: show

Aysun · **02-13-2012, 01:31 PM**

HOO RAH

I got to RP with some people I really hadn't had a chance to before last night. That was epic.

Miyu Asuka · **02-13-2012, 01:47 PM**

I always read the spoilers first, I just had to laugh even in real life, only to realise that i should cry. We're rp-ers but we're acting like nothing of the sorts.

I noticed this at Merri's event a -lot-. People came to the place where we started and slides right to the persons they only know and always and always play with. I can understand that, we do that in real life as well of course but what we also do and what is in our nature is to socialize. ALL! of those friends, yes ALL! of them, were once strangers. Every single one of them, you had to meet them once. In the end they became your friends and you met more strangers through them, and they became that little clique, felt safe, and closed your border for no one to ever enter in.

I tried to hop from person to person, evading the persons I already knew and only tried to talk to persons who I didn't knew, but I didn't got any more than a name before they left and talked to their tight little buddies again. I don't understand why, is it that scary to just talk normally to someone? Is it that scary to maybe let someone into that border, that shell of yours and maybe find out that person is a really cool person, who knows others persons as well and make super epic storylines and adventures and... Fun.

Second thing that i totally agree with is the OOC/IC line.
IC == In character. Meaning My character, not me, not my life, not my name, job, sex, eyes, hats, whatever in any single way. It's a different person, his of her unique and very own person. NOT the player behind it.
OOC == the player behind it. Me. Yes, me, my life, my name, job, sex, eyes, hats, whatever defines me, the player who types this. I am -not- my character, I don't think as my character, I don't even ever ever would wanna be my character.
This is something so many people seem to forget. You meet someone, rp with them lots and lots untill you find out you maybe don't like his voice on vent and you cease all relations to the character, maybe even retcon.
Yes, this includes the blindness to see a female character as a female character, even when played by a male. Which seems a popular subject to bash these days.
Yes I am male in real life, i never lied nor denied it. Yes, Miyu, my character is female, it's a fact and it will always be. No matter how much you might hate it, might be disgusted about it, she is a female and I won't change it. If you truely hold onto that IC/OOC line, you should know that i don't even relate to my character in any way and that she is a seperate person. Stop looking at such trivial matters.

As an endgamer in various games I feel the dedication, the thrill, the need and the fun in what I do. I like meeting someone new and find out he would be a lovely addition to my guild/corp/shell/whatever. Expand on that and get his friends in, grow even bigger and create massive people who all have the veyr same goal, Endgame, in our case this is RP but I don't see a difference.

Rp starts with -you-, no one else, make it so!

HOO RAH!~

Show Content

Eva · **02-13-2012, 03:33 PM**

HOO-RAH!

I did always find it rather peculiar that I belong to multiple RP pearls and none of them sees nearly as much traffic as the OOC pearl. I attribute this - in part - to the sheer number of people that belong to the OOC pearl. But I think there is an inclination for a lot of RPers to not want to RP so much. My own view on the matter has been a point of contraversy in some linkshells I've belonged to in the past, but I'll share it anyway in the hopes that it at least sparks some further discussion.

I'm not IC 100% of the time. If there's an Ifrit run happening or anything else where it's fundamentally important to discuss the matters at hand in an OOC manner, that's understandable. I usually try to do so in as convenient a channel as possible - /p or /tell if it's feasable. But I am IC as often as I can be, easily over 90% of my time playing. I got more than my fill of endgame from FFXI and while having pretty virtual items is nice, having meaningful storyline and in-character interactions with other brilliant RPers is far more important - to me. I understand not everyone is of this mindset.

From the get-go I've wanted to be a part of 100% immersive linkshells and without going into any flowery recruitment-esque descriptions, that's what I love about the Everwatch. Very rarely is anything said OOC over that linkpearl for any reason. There may be lulls, which is where having other RP pearls has its perks, and then OOC pearl is usually active if I'm looking for social interaction where RP is unavailable at any given moment. But it has always made the experience more "real" from a more pure role-play perspective.

Our preferences are as different as our personalities, though. I have found that casual RP is a lot more prevalent and heavy RP a lot less popular than I have seen in previous games. There is nothing wrong with this. But it happens not to be my own style. And then of course having the ability to jump between multiple linkshells and filter text accordingly has provided a whole new dimension to the experience as well.

Events like last night's picnic make me happy, and I'm thrilled that Deirdre put that together. I had a lot of fun at it, and several unexpected things happened during the course of the event. This came on the heels of the Valentione's event I had put together for Friday which was a partial success. I think if I'd advertised it a little better, it may have seen a better turn-out. But for what it was, we got to meet up with several RPers bit-by-bit rather than all at once in one big event. So it was fun in its own way (and Eva doesn't like large crowds anyway so she could be a little more comfortable than she would have been if it was a swarm of RPers).

My take-home from the experience has been that the OOC pearl is a valuable tool. The RPC forums are a great way to organize events for the greater RP community. And marketing an event entails a bit more than just writing a post, but building up hype about it and maybe talking about it on the OOC pearl as well.

I also have a few ideas for future events and something on the horizon which should help foster more RP opportunities, but I'm waiting for certain conditions to be met with the game itself and with some of my friends before that can really move forward.

Still, I have to laugh whenever someone says that "RP is dying" because I have spent SO MUCH of the past week-and-a-half RPing with various people, both in linkshells that I belong to and not, that it's hard for me to see where this mentality is coming from. The only thing I can think is that maybe some people aren't being as proactive about FINDING the RP or limiting themselves to RPing with just a handful of their fellow RPers and may want to consider "casting a wider net" so to speak.

I have no funny Spoiler pics to post, so I'll just conclude by saying thank you to Deirdre for putting the event together last night and for making this post. :cheer:

Smiling River · **02-13-2012, 05:21 PM**

I don't think any revamping is necessary - we're doing just fine. But then again, I have that mindset more often than not, 'we're fine'. There is a sweet-spot for RP at events thought, too many people and you can't really focus at all, too few and you're RPing with the same faces.

I agree with Eva though, for an RP community there is soooo much OOC and moderate/light RP here. I've often thought that maybe my standards are too high, or maybe I should lower my expectations when taking in applications for Everwatch, to make it grow a bit more... because it seems hard to come by RPers who enjoy immersion as much, and don't have various oddities about them that (in my opinion) aren't plausible/clash with lore/just no-nos. But then it wouldn't be genuinely fun for me to RP with them. I think this is probably where the community is /quietly/ hurting the most, in 'heavy RP'. I feel like if I wanted moderate, I can get it in buckets.

Merri · **02-13-2012, 07:40 PM**

As has been mentioned before, we just have so many different groups of people with different mindsets in this community. Which is great, but also very complicating. We have people who adhere strictly to lore. If it isn't stated in-game or within reasonable thought to that person, they won't tolerate it as it conflicts with their immersion IC. Nothing wrong with that at all, as it gives a unique experience of roleplay that fits 100% in to the game in question. Then we have the people who adhere to the lore, but look at the game from a generic "Final Fantasy" perspective. I myself fall in to that mindset. I won't tolerate anything blatantly outside of the lore, or anything incredibly overpowered, but I'll accept basic "final fantasy" concepts within reason. Then you have your people who have rather creative characters. Ones that might dip outside the bounds of what some consider acceptable within lore. Things that don't normally happen within the realm of Final Fantasy, or fantasy in general. All of these groups should be welcomed and accepted, though. Discrimination shouldn't happen. It does, but thankfully I haven't seen much of it in this community.

Each group has it's members, but the problem is that those on the far end of the lore-adhering spectrum often have conflicts OOCly when interacting with those on the opposite end. Some people will avoid others, or be nervous about interacting with said characters due to conflicts that might arise both IC and OOCly that could cause for an awkward situation or even aggression. It's unfortunate, but it happens from time to time within roleplay communities.

I'd just like to echo what has more or less been stated before. It won't hurt much to sort of branch out a bit from your comfort zone every now and again. Roleplay with some people you might not consider roleplaying with. Even if it's just casual meet ups or social gatherings. You don't have to delve deep in to some characters background. They might have some things about them you don't agree with OOCly, but if you just keep things loose and casual while in character, you won't ever have to bring those up to begin with.

Either way, I think we're doing great considering how small our community is. Things can only get better as we grow in the coming patches, up to version 2.0.

Smiling River · **02-13-2012, 09:16 PM**

I am not sure about the lighter side of the spectrum, but at least on the more lore-plausible side, the people I RP with as well as myself have played this game for a year+ in some cases, and in that time have interacted, even closely in some cases with moderate/light RPers. I wont speak for others, but I found it to be frustrating or /facepalming more than fun, thus the sort of seclusion where you RP with the people who are of the same general mindset happens. I've been a part of many, many Linkshells from Sanctus to TALE to Eorzean Guard. I've involved myself in the storylines therein, and most of the time found them ultimately to go into directions that were not fun for me to RP. I don't blame anyone for that, if that's how your mind works, so be it. But I also don't think it's fair to say that we should give others a chance, when a lot of RPers already have.

Merri · **02-13-2012, 09:58 PM**

Ah, sorry. I wasn't trying to imply that people don't already do what I was suggesting. Just that people tend to, as you said yourself, group off for the exact reason you and I have both stated. It can just be downright frustrating and awkward when immersion clashes. I totally get that. I've experienced it myself on a few occasions, and I can vouch for how much it makes you want to find a group you are comfortable with.

My whole suggestion on giving others a chance was more for me than anything. Something I'd like to see others do, sure, but nothing that I think should be forcibly pushed on anyone. It's not some kind of ultimatum or demand that everyone else to put themselves out there like that. It's an elective thing to do, and just depends on the person. It's something I personally will try to do - even if it makes me uncomfortable at first. Simply because I'd like to give everyone a chance, and others a second chance in the name of broadening my own circles.

Tivahlt · **02-14-2012, 01:35 AM**

I've always been open to RP with just about anyone, especially since I'm relatively new to the community. That's a bit of a double-edged sword in itself though...because I'm new, I feel nervous about RPing with people that already have histories with each other, or who are more involved with larger groups that I have no access to. All I have is the OoC linkshell (which I don't even have on Tiv anymore until the regroup) and while that greatly facilitates RP, I often find myself to be under obligations to parties or friends or real life on the increasingly rare occurrences that people actually *want* to RP.

Now you can say "that just means you have to start it yourself!" but the problem is twofold for that one: number one, I am shy and very self-conscious. I don't like to start things, and I certainly don't like to start things with total strangers who may *le gasp!* not like the way I play my characters or how they are involved (or not involved) in Eorzea's recent troubles, which brings me to point number two: it's easy to be accepted in this community as a player, but it is very hard to feel accepted as a character. This mostly has to do with the aforementioned varying mindsets: I've seen players that have the most absurd characters that it takes all of the fun out of playing, and others who are so studious of FFXIV's lore (which is often conflicting, making it even harder to play with them) that anyone who says something even slightly off gets the immediate rhetorical "boot." I like to think that I'm somewhere in the middle, but that could also mean that I'm forced to stick with other people who are "just in the middle." The absurdists will get on my nerves, and the purists won't want to play with me.

I do want to RP more, but as it is I don't feel comfortable enough to just start something up. Also a lot of the events seem to happen while I'm knee-deep in homework or real world obligations...not that anyone is really at fault for that. >>;

Verence · **02-14-2012, 12:17 PM**

For me, at least personally, one of the major issues I have with a lot of RP is that so much of it is just casual socializing. I don't, speaking bluntly, find that interesting. What I find interesting is when things happen, when character development occurs, when characters' views are explored or challenged, when they witness or achieve things they might never have considered. Simply hanging out and chatting doesn't really do much for me - I don't even like doing that much OOCly, and if I ever have the urge I can just prod a few of my mates and get some video games and beer into the equation!

What encourages me to RP is meaningful, limited-scale interactions that explore the thoughts, views, relationships, and abilities of a character. Now, naturally you can't do this every session, nor should you expect to - otherwise you're priming your character for some PTSD due to EPIC overload (a situation that actually started to happen to some characters in my XI linkshell as a number of us began to OOCly realize that all the EPIK stuff happening would have our chars riding the ragged edge of sanity!). This means that the RP I most enjoy is not, by nature, all-inclusive. Not because EW THOSE OTHER RPERS ARE <insert random reason not to like them here> but because when you get a lot of random characters around just doing whatever, it's not fun for me. It's like going to a party and sitting around, which some people enjoy - and hey, if you do, great! I think MOST people probably do. But I don't, and though I can't speak for how many have similar views to my own I'm confident that, at the least, I'm not the only one.

Now, naturally there must be a means for your character to MEET other people from which to spin off into above-mentioned RPs so I do wholeheartedly and without irony endorse social meetup events. I just seem to see (and this may be simply my own misconception) a public view that encourages this sort of RP but never really acknowledges the other sort. Me, I'm most engaged when I'm involved in a mini plotline or developing situation that intricately entangles a select handful of characters. One of my favorite aspects of RP is seeing characters grow and change in response to the people they've known and the things they've done. I enjoy thinking up and plotting out story arcs. I'd probably be doing a lot more of this if I ever had the time to log in, which sadly I don't!

Anyhow, this isn't really an argument for or against anything. Simply an opinionated ramble trying to show the other side of the coin. Large-scale social interactions are well and good, but they're not even half of the picture for this RPer.

Deirdre · **02-14-2012, 01:26 PM**

Thanks for the replies everyone, my original post was created in a slight ragemode so I didn't really get the the point of everything I really wanted to say, glad most of you caught on to that and filled in the blanks. I think we're mostly at an agreeance that something has to happen, we're all feeling the lack of RP, not just due to the merges and the missing players, but as an overall feel.

Special mention to Verence, I didn't go so far as to delve in the kind of RP we need going on around here, and I think he made a lot of valid points. It's true! We need more than just the social gatherings we currently do. Of course, they're great places for our characters to meet, but it kind of sucks when my character can't bump in to anyone on the road while adventuring, or get pulled in to a whirlwind of events that makes her consider being a nun.
True to Verences point we shouldn't be making a ton of these events. They are secluded, and what every Rper should be begging to come rather than one of Yoshi-P's letters still not acknowledging us. But at this point... I can't remember the last large scale event like that since my time in the Eorzean Guard!

I'm guilty for it, I usually make social events for the larger crowd and seclude my special storyline events for my linkshells. In the Watch, for example, a little while ago we did a series of missions that were almost like playing D&D. One of us (me on an alt) played the GM, rolling my D20 at home (mostly) while players could roll the /random in game.
This turned out great! Nothing was predictable, people were put in situations where they usually wouldn't be, and rolling a 1 had real consequences! (Like Oskar getting shot). Of course, something on a larger scale would be very much at the permissions of the player.

Now I guess I'll go out on a limb here since I know we are all usually guilty of pulling the storylines in to our linkshells (who end up becoming secluded and stagnating RP for the shell-less). If I get enough support, or enough helpers and cooperators, I could probably put something together for the masses. Maybe something easier first, a sort of trial adventure, before whacking you over the heads with some serious lore-based storyline that I lock Shurin in a closet to create for me.

Thoughts?

Spoiler: show

Mnim · **02-14-2012, 02:46 PM**

A few of us following the thread just wanted to chime this in, given the prevalent tone. I thought it best to express some of what we discussed here~

I (and a few others) have more interest in the constantly evolving day-to-day relationships and minor storylines that form from impromptu role play. Events are fun of course, and a great way to gather, but it can feel as if too much emphasis is placed on them - and at times too much derision levelled against those who are simply interested in their characters' daily lives. Not that everyone favours event-driven play is guilty of this, obviously.

With regard to events, I feel (this is me speaking here) that when I miss these, I am left behind and can never catch up to play on par with everyone else. Being 'forced' to either step out in the spotlight or be completely disregarded during these events is another issue that occurs not infrequently, especially in scenes involving more than a few people, as are the occasional negative reactions toward those prefer their characters not be particularly talented in some capacity beyond the apparent norm. Everyone can't stand centre stage all at once, nor should everyone be able to - or feel so compelled by others.

Smiling River · **02-14-2012, 06:24 PM**

Ugh Mnim, I hate when one person posts for some anonymous "we."

Anyway, to reply to Verence/Deir, the more 'challenging' stuff for the characters to RP out are a lot harder to do in mixed groups, because not everyone is on the same page with the type of RP they're into, so doing that on major scale... I doubt it can fly, as someone would be turned off by w/e someone has planned or the way the story goes.

These "let's just get together and RP!" threads always end with everyone listing why that can't really happen >.>

Forra · **02-14-2012, 06:47 PM**

Oh, sure, attack the post format rather than speaking to its concerns.

You'd've seen me chiming in on subject beside Mnim's post sooner but for having to travel to my aunt's caravan for the night, what with the plumbers disabling the water/heating and all.

Still, since adding a different voice is clearly unwelcome, I'll not join in the discussion and just leave my input on the subject at noting I also get a lot more out of open, unscheduled play and my characters' day-to-day than events, really fun though events may be. But then, since you only seem concerned about the fact the post wanted to add the results of a discussion as a single post, I guess the only bit would have mattered is that I want in on that detestable 'we', anyway.

Miyu Asuka · **02-14-2012, 06:49 PM**

Quote:These "let's just get together and RP!" threads always end with everyone listing why that can't really happen >.>

Odd, we made an entire shell for just this and it worked -wonderfully- well. It was called Corvus Cinis.
A bit of dedication and positive mindset along with -respect- and -acceptance- for other peoples way of rping gets you a long way.

ps. Also, the "we" comment, was that really necesary? Something small like this can cause people to enrage, as for one I completely agree with Mnim and (s)he can use we to include my thoughts as well.

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