(11-11-2014, 01:19 PM)Gwen Wrote:(11-11-2014, 12:33 PM)Tiergan Wrote: Even with regions where the age of consent really is solidly is 13 and you can bet your biscuits I will silently judge the heck out of folks if I see a twenty-something year old character RPing sexually charged stuff with a 13 year old character.This is entirely my point though. I'm not saying I'm fine with a 13 year old character doing that, but the point I'm trying to make is that it might be fine in their country, and they shouldn't be judged for doing it. Morals aside, it's not really any different than judging me for spelling colour with a u. That's just how it is in said country.
18 being a safe age shouldn't suddenly mean any younger character under that should have their player judged, it's more a case of just respecting the people around you (On both sides.) Since, even if it is fine to do it, not many others want to see a 13 year old doing that, and in most cases that applies for 18+ as well. Since all logic here obviously can be used on both sides it's not really an easy discussion. It's more about just not doing it in public. People who's age is 13 need to respect that others wouldn't want to be okay with that, and people who's age is at 18 should respect that most other places use a younger age.
(This ended up far more than just a reply to you, more a summation and response to all posts thus far. Please excuse the length. )
I understand where you're coming from, but there's a difference between understanding and acknowledging cultural differences and agreeing with them.Â
I would say the problem is that we have a genuine slippery slope if we're to judge people's actions only as they are relevant to the legal or cultural norms of their population. I don't even have to list examples because I'm sure all of you can think of one or two policies within other countries you find personally abhorrent. (And I think it's best we don't give any exact examples lest this turn into a discussion on real politics). If they choose to roleplay out such an action in game and hold it in the same light as according to their personal laws and culture, but I find the action abhorrent, I still have the right to judge them. I'm going to try and give as ludicrous an example as possible, here.
On planet Xebob it is perfectly legal and culturally acceptable and encouraged to physically attack anyone who sneezes.Â
Yes, it's ridiculous. But again, I think it's better we keep it to 'out there' (quite literally) and light-hearted examples. Now if a Xebobian roleplays such, and portrays attacking someone who sneezes and portrays it in a completely acceptable tone both IC and OOC, I am still going to find it ridiculous and disagree with it OOC. I mean we have no lore to suggest the law isn't such in Eorzea, we have no lore to suggest it is. So technically from a lore standpoint, sure, you can roleplay it as culturally canon to beat up people when they sneeze and nobody can prove you wrong. I can acknowledge that this person would roleplay this because such is the cultural or legal practices of their population. I can understand. But I do not agree with the practice, and if someone roleplays such I will judge it so.Â
I'll level with you, because like I said, I DO get it. Even if I disagree, I understand where you're coming from. And I do acknowledge the difference between pedophilia and ephebophilia, which is the root of the majority of our disagreement here. At the end of the day 18 IS an arbitrarily chosen number. Because people develop at different rates, and despite our best attempts to pinpoint an 'average' point at which an individual is psychologically capable of consent, there will always be outliers. I'm sure we've all known a 17 year old more mature than a 19 year old. But to be fair, if 17 is okay, why not 16? There are some mature 16 year olds psychologically capable of consent, surely. Not to even start on the fact that because the character is being PLAYED by an adult, a character of any age psychologically capable of genuine consent is completely possible. So it really has to come back to blanket principle.Â
So speaking as a global roleplay community, why 18? As others have stated, 18 is the age at which the majority* of people are not being exposed to something they consider statutory rape OOC, and is flat out illegal, even OOC, for others (It would be legally equivalent to child pornography). I can understand that such puts someone, like you, playing a 17 year old in a country where she is legally capable of consent in a hard position. But can you really tell me you wouldn't judge someone from Angola roleplaying a relationship involving a 12 year old?
Unfortunately the reality of the situation is that if you play a character under 18 in a relationship with someone of age, people are going to judge you. Even if you don't rub it in their face, or involve their characters.Â
There are varying degrees of this of course, based on many factors. No one is going to judge a relationship between a 17 year old and a 20 year old like they would a 17 year old and a 40 year old. No one is going to judge a relationship involving a 17 year old like they would judge a relationship involving a 12 year old. But at the end of the day for many people these situations are still considered statutory rape. And I'll be flat out in saying that while I would disagree with your choice and would be much more comfortable when your character was 18, I definitely wouldn't brand you as a pedophile, or even a sexual deviant for rping a 17 year old involved in a healthy relationship with someone under 25. Though I'd be much more comfortable when your character was 18, I can't truthfully say I'd hold it against you. But that's my subjective opinion and I have respect the fact that that's exactly what it is- subjective. As other people have mentioned, it doesn't mean any of these things are 'off limits' from a literary standpoint. It all comes down to intention and tone- Keeping in fair mind that these things are subjective in themselves.
The strong reaction you see from those opposed is not from the material itself, it is in the opinion that this kind of roleplay is, as Pkthunda so eloquently put, "enabling of fantasies that are dangerous". This in itself could spawn an entire essay of explanation, so I'll try my best to condense the thoughts as much as possible. For some people erotic roleplay involving minors can be a completely harmless fantasy that has no consequences on children in real life. But the problem is that this is not so for ALL people involved in this kind of roleplay. And it is a matter of enabling and normalization of the content, not the content itself- So in other words, it is not synonymous with people roleplaying gratuitous violence and gore or other 'edgy' or 'dark' material, because that material does not shirk the negative effects of the actions, it revels in them.
So no, it is not just a matter of finding it 'icky'. I find inflation porn 'icky' but I don't judge those who participate in it so long as everyone involved consents. And no, it is not just happening behind closed doors. Despite ALL of this hubbub I said it before and I'll say it again- No one can force anyone to do anything. No one can force you to stop doing any kind of rp. No one can stop you from judging others. But the issue is that this material is no longer only happening behind closed doors between consenting parties. The fact that this has reached the point of people playing minors having to put 'NO ERP' in their search info or wikis is just ridiculous. We don't have to list 'no beastiality' or 'no bologna porn'. If you want to get pissed off at anyone, get pissed off at other people involved in that kind of rp that have been wantonly foisting it on others, thus resulting in this thread.Â
*I say majority because there are indeed countries in which the age of consent is 19, or 20 depending on situation (Though both countries allow sex with 15 year olds depending on gender and martial status with the other party).
