I'm going to be echoing a lot of what Zelmanov already said.
There are four High Noble Houses (Fortemps, Durendaire, Haillenarte, and Dzemael), each with fluctuating respect and social standing. For example, House Haillenarte recently lost control of Stone Vigil to the Horde and has lost a lot of respect. These houses seem quite expansive and include man-servants, tutors, retainers, butlers, etc. Though not all of these workers are of the particular House. Some employ lowborns or members of other households.
Avoiding going into major 3.0 spoilers... yes, technically, you could say your character is a distant relation to one of these Houses. However, I would caution against saying your character is of a direct familial line to one of the High Noble Houses, as each House does have some specific children that are accounted for in lore. (And it seems only direct descendants are in line for succession in any case.)
Also, each High House has duties beyond the walls of Ishgard. For instance, Fortemps is responsible for Camp Dragonhead. Haillenarte was responsible for Stone Vigil. Dzemael for the Darkhold. Durendaire once held the western front with Dusk Vigil.
House Fortemps is ruled by Count Edmont de Fortemps, who has three sons, Haurchefant, Artoirel, and Emmanellain. The latter two are currently vying for succession.
Not as much is known about the other three houses, but we know that House Haillenarte once had at least three sons as well:
Of the House Durendaire line, I believe Lord Drillemont is the only surviving son? EDIT: Found the Count de Durendaire's second son: Jannequinard de Durendaire, the AST NPC.
Ser Yuhelmeric Brillelame was the Lord Commander of the House Durendaire Knights, but shortly after the Calamity was disgraced under suspicion of heresy. Though close with the Durendaire family, he was not of direct lineage.
Jandelaine and Guillefresne are also both credited with being heirs to the Dzemael House. Though I seem to recall them referring to their relation with Dzemael to be an off-shoot? Perhaps caused by being half siblings or cousins to the main Dzemael line, or not being directly descendant from Sylvetrel de Dzemael.
There are Highborns (Nobles) and Lowborn (Brumeborn, baseborn, etc), with little to no evidence of a "middle class."
Ishgardian Nobility, outside of High Nobility - which is strictly familial, does work upon a meritocratic system. Meaning that a Lowborn can feasibly achieve higher social status by doing something truly... noble. For example, Ser Aymeric, Lord Commander of the Temple Knights was lowborn, but rose to his station.
There is no middle class, however, there are Noble Houses that are not the Four High Noble Houses. There are a great many Noble Houses in Ishgard, and these are those Lowborns who have risen above their station or were just more well off than their fellow man. We do have several Noble Houses in lore: Brillelame, Rougecarpe, Valentione, Dartancours, etc...
But feel free to make your own. These people are still considered Upper class citizens though.
There is definitely an extreme disconnect between Highborn and Lowborn in Ishgard. There's quite a bit of animosity, resentment, or plain out disgust that's evident from talking to various NPCs around Ishgard or from doing the first few 3.0 MSQs.
However, this is the majority, not the views of all. Some of the Noble Houses are kind to the lowborns. Some lowborns are allowed to marry into noble families. Also, those who become Knights or Dragoons often cast aside the differences of stature so that they have the best chance of survival.
Ishgardian elitism seems most prevalent inside the walls of Ishgard or in civilized forts ruled by the High Houses like Durendaire or Fortemps. In the wildnerness, prestige seems to count for little. Though High Noble-born are often treated with far more respect/caution then most it seems.
Hope this all helps! ^^
(07-15-2015, 04:23 PM)LilithLarkspur Wrote: 1) We know there 4 high houses that make up the core nobility of Ishgard, and the surnames of these houses carry massive weight in every facet of Ishgard. How extended are these homes? Aside from main family members, what other lower tier occupations/positions are available within these houses for players to write their characters into? (Servants, chefs, etc)
There are four High Noble Houses (Fortemps, Durendaire, Haillenarte, and Dzemael), each with fluctuating respect and social standing. For example, House Haillenarte recently lost control of Stone Vigil to the Horde and has lost a lot of respect. These houses seem quite expansive and include man-servants, tutors, retainers, butlers, etc. Though not all of these workers are of the particular House. Some employ lowborns or members of other households.
House Fortemps Steward Wrote:Me? Why, I am but a humble steward sworn to House Fortemps. I doubt you wish to hear the minutiae of my duties. Simply put, at the behest of my lord the count, I manage household affairs. I have served at his pleasure for more than fifty years, and by the Fury's grace, I shall serve for fifty more.
House Fortemps Steward Wrote:As for those sworn to House Fortemps... In addition to the knights, squires, and infantry, more than a hundred craftsmen, retainers, and other servants possessed of notable skill are pledged to our service. Given our strong position, one might expect us to have no truck with foreign merchants and sellswords. However, nothing could be further from the truth. I should think that my lord the count was quite clear on this point, but it was our hope that you and your allies would, by your deeds, help us to convince the other High Houses of the wisdom of opening the Gates of Judgement to all - among other things.
(07-15-2015, 04:23 PM)LilithLarkspur Wrote: 2) Furthermore, how big are these noble houses? Is there just a handful of blood lineage, or has the family grown to the point where is it possible to say your character is in some way a way-down-the-line relative of "X" house without coming off as too pretentious?
Avoiding going into major 3.0 spoilers... yes, technically, you could say your character is a distant relation to one of these Houses. However, I would caution against saying your character is of a direct familial line to one of the High Noble Houses, as each House does have some specific children that are accounted for in lore. (And it seems only direct descendants are in line for succession in any case.)
Also, each High House has duties beyond the walls of Ishgard. For instance, Fortemps is responsible for Camp Dragonhead. Haillenarte was responsible for Stone Vigil. Dzemael for the Darkhold. Durendaire once held the western front with Dusk Vigil.
House Fortemps is ruled by Count Edmont de Fortemps, who has three sons, Haurchefant, Artoirel, and Emmanellain. The latter two are currently vying for succession.
Not as much is known about the other three houses, but we know that House Haillenarte once had at least three sons as well:
Quote:Naul
Ah, yes. You know how Ishgard is about dragons. The Holy See managed to get Naul and a few other dragons on to the elite mark list. A favor to be repaid in kind, I'm sure. The dragons Naul and Svara are best known for their attack on the Steel Vigil, which left the fortress a smoking ruin. Notable casualties include the third son of House Haillenarte...
Of the House Durendaire line, I believe Lord Drillemont is the only surviving son? EDIT: Found the Count de Durendaire's second son: Jannequinard de Durendaire, the AST NPC.
Ser Yuhelmeric Brillelame was the Lord Commander of the House Durendaire Knights, but shortly after the Calamity was disgraced under suspicion of heresy. Though close with the Durendaire family, he was not of direct lineage.
Jandelaine and Guillefresne are also both credited with being heirs to the Dzemael House. Though I seem to recall them referring to their relation with Dzemael to be an off-shoot? Perhaps caused by being half siblings or cousins to the main Dzemael line, or not being directly descendant from Sylvetrel de Dzemael.
(07-15-2015, 04:23 PM)LilithLarkspur Wrote: 3) Upon initially arriving in Ishgard, it immediately noticed there is a very impoverished social class referred to as "baseborn". What details do we know about this, and is it possible to escape this social class through hard work/achievement?
There are Highborns (Nobles) and Lowborn (Brumeborn, baseborn, etc), with little to no evidence of a "middle class."
The Better Half Wrote:The Forgotten Knight serves two very different classes of customer: the relatively affluent knights and merchants who frequent the upper floor, and the lowborn residents of the Brume who prefer the more affordable fare served downstairs. It would seem the stark division between these two clienteles reflects the divisions beyond the tavern's walls─as the differing experiences of the high and lowborn during the recent wyvern attack make plain. While the Pillars' defenses were fortified, the Brume and its residents were left to bear the brunt of the Dravanians' fury. A troubling thought indeed...
Ishgardian Nobility, outside of High Nobility - which is strictly familial, does work upon a meritocratic system. Meaning that a Lowborn can feasibly achieve higher social status by doing something truly... noble. For example, Ser Aymeric, Lord Commander of the Temple Knights was lowborn, but rose to his station.
Dominiac Wrote:The only way to gain the power of nobility is through a truly noble display of courage. There's one simple way to do that - slay a monstrous, ancient dragon. There are some feats that cannot be ignored.
(07-15-2015, 04:23 PM)LilithLarkspur Wrote: 4) In between the baseborn and the four noble houses, what middle class, if any, exists in Ishgard. Is it possible to, for the purpose of backstory, create your own middle/upper class Ishgardian family (below the four core houses, of course) and still fall believably within the lore?
There is no middle class, however, there are Noble Houses that are not the Four High Noble Houses. There are a great many Noble Houses in Ishgard, and these are those Lowborns who have risen above their station or were just more well off than their fellow man. We do have several Noble Houses in lore: Brillelame, Rougecarpe, Valentione, Dartancours, etc...
But feel free to make your own. These people are still considered Upper class citizens though.
(07-15-2015, 04:23 PM)LilithLarkspur Wrote: 5) Finally, what does social interaction between social classes look like? It is obvious from some of the first quests in Ishgard that the typical intolerance towards the impoverished exists, but how severe is this? Where do non-noble, but financially successful/working class fit into the equation.
There is definitely an extreme disconnect between Highborn and Lowborn in Ishgard. There's quite a bit of animosity, resentment, or plain out disgust that's evident from talking to various NPCs around Ishgard or from doing the first few 3.0 MSQs.
Gibrillont Wrote:Upstairs, you're like to find more well-to-do regulars mingling with travelers. Downstairs, well, that's where you'll find the locals. Right or wrong, people have a habit of sticking with their own, and Ishgardians are no different.
Goldin Wrote:Thought to take a stroll through the Brume and remind yourself how good you've got it? I swear, you people...
Segaulyon Wrote:I can hardly believe it! House Fortemps granting patronage to a common sellsword? Well, should I chance to meet this ragamuffin, I will say to her good day!
However, this is the majority, not the views of all. Some of the Noble Houses are kind to the lowborns. Some lowborns are allowed to marry into noble families. Also, those who become Knights or Dragoons often cast aside the differences of stature so that they have the best chance of survival.
Ishgardian elitism seems most prevalent inside the walls of Ishgard or in civilized forts ruled by the High Houses like Durendaire or Fortemps. In the wildnerness, prestige seems to count for little. Though High Noble-born are often treated with far more respect/caution then most it seems.
Hope this all helps! ^^
