Thread Closed
(01-11-2016, 01:06 AM)ArmachiA Wrote:Before diving into that, I want to reiterate that by no means am I talking about everyone, or quite possibly even most people. I have seen a lot of reasonable responses and discussion happen on even touchy subjects. I have also seen those responses get absolutely drowned out by a loud and vocal minority. Nature of the beast? Maybe, or maybe something should have been done the 3rd, 4th or even 11th time an individual spewed venom at someone trying to figure out how to RP a DRG (or touchy subject x,y, or z). That said, here we go.(01-10-2016, 11:59 PM)Yssen Wrote:(01-10-2016, 09:16 PM)V Wrote:^ This. All of this.(01-10-2016, 07:01 PM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote: We've certainly had issues on a few particular topics, usually in regards to roleplaying as mages with soulstones, but I've yet to see anyone going "you're RP is invalid and/or wrong" due to it. The common answer I have seen is "that RP is not for me."Disagree. In almost every single thread about contentious rp subjects there is a small chorus of people asserting that the roleplay being discussed is wrong, often going as far as ignoring established lore to do it. Expressions of tolerance for other people roleplaying "wrong" are typically secondary to informing people their RP is "wrong".
Also, there isn't a single person on this site I'd consider a "leader". "Loud" would be more accurate.
One can just go over every single post about WHM and DRG to see some of what I believe the OP is trying to point out, to point out just a couple dozen specific examples. Usually it is from the same people saying the same stuff every single time. Each of these posts are, in short, echo chambers of loudly shouted personal preference coupled with the threat of "conform this or we will exclude you." It should be pointed out that this is the exact opposite of what what people are saying they prefer to see in this very thread. This is part of the problem, no one willing to say/recognize that such are behaviors that are a problem.
For some, actual helpfulness and reasonable discussion fall absolutely fall by the wayside in favor of loud shouting of the same opinions, outright insults, and promises censure for refusal to conform. This is another point Momo brings up, and it is fairly valid. So is pointing out that this is not the way things were in the past. Yes, there were disagreements and arguments. There was not a whole sale attitude of "we will exclude you if you do not conform." In fact, as others have pointed out, that sort of thing was actively discouraged. It is absolutely true that things just change, but that does not mean that things change for the better. In my opinion, they have not. We seem to have gone from a community of creatives discussing and offering input on one another's ideas to an echo chamber of loudly shouting assholes saying "conform to what we or we just won't include you." While this is not true of everyone on this forum, it is true that one walks away with that impression with a larger number of the posts here. This is not a positive change, but the OP brings up the point that there can be reflection on where this place has been and where we wish it to go. What has changed once, can change again.
For all of the commentary on the structure of the original post, we all do seem to be able to get was Momo was going for, and we should reflect on what was said. While there are bits and bobs of what was said that I do not necessarily agree with, all of it is worth thinking about. More than a little of it is true, even if accepting that is a bit of a hard pill to swallow.
The question then becomes what are you supposed to do when people say "Does this character concept work?" are you... not supposed to answer? I always see a bunch of people come in and go "You can play whatever you want =D" but that isn't helpful - obviously the person asked for imput if they wanted to play whatever they wanted they wouldn't have made the thread (Unless they were looking for an echo chamber of how great their character is, but that's another subject). I know in the past I've offered advice about character concepts and said I didn't personally jive with some of them, but always added "But you can play whatever you want" at the end so they know it's just my opinion. Should I not offer that kind of advice? Is that seen as pushing my own agenda?
It is a multi-faceted issue. There is not really a simple answer at all. There are some steps than can be taken when offering out advice and what not that can possibly improve things. My brain boggles at the idea that we now actively warn people "but most won't play with you if you do that"Â when it comes to touchy subject x,y, or z. That very warning, and the acceptance of that very attitude isn't constructive, it is stifling. How did we even get here? Particularly, how did we get here as a group of people that keep wishing to advovate "we don't want a community that tells us what we can and cannot do in our RP. I will grant that people have different tastes and expectations when it comes to RP. I am also not advocating blind acceptance of every possible concept someone could come up with, but we need to accept that when it comes to issues of lore bendy or breaky zero of us speak with any kind of authority. We can all only speak from a view of personal interpretation, and we can all be wrong. All we have is best guess, and very often we do not see anyone own up to that before, during, or after new details come out (there is only one Dragoon, anyone?). We should also remember that there are actual people on the other side of the screen. Too many people forget this. Often. There is a line between constructive criticism and idea bashing that gets crossed a lot. Take a step back, read what you are putting out there, and think about how you would really feel if someone said it to you. Not just about whatever subject or topic is being discussed, but frame it as someone disagreeing with an idea you are really wanting to execute. This leads me directly to the next thing. We should also check ourselves and reflect on our own creations and where we may have taken license. Another thing my brain has boggled at is people coming down on touchy subject x,y, or z like a hammer shouting "LORE BREAKING!," while portaying or playing a thing that does not exist with in XIV's world at all (sometimes not even with basis in FF at all). A particular quote by Hawthorne comes to mind here. We have all taken some amount of liberty or license with something we are RPing right now and we should reflect on why we have done that. We should thing about why another person might be doing that with their idea. Â All of that before leveling any kind of judgement on someone's idea, and all of that in the name of keeping an open mind.Â
We need to remember that we are all RPing to have fun. To take our creations and trot them around in the game, and interact with other people doing the same. We all want a positive experience as a result of the time and effort we put into RP, and with that in mind we need to remember that that is all someone else we come across is looking for too. You get exactly what you put out into the world, and we should treat others as we would want them to treat us.