(02-07-2016, 06:53 PM)Caspar Wrote: I feel the assertion that only Fists of Rhalgr can be Monks, and only Monks can obtain the use of Chakra to empower themselves is against the spirit of the MNK quest line pre-50, and the idea that the codified method established by the Fists is the only way to achieve further unlocked chakra is against the spirit of the post-50 story line. Either way there are a lot of problems with this line of reasoning, and when speculating, nothing should be worded as if it is canonical fact.
It seemed to me during the Monk quests 1-50 that the concept of Chakra (IE. the name and supposed method of manipulation) was a trained method from within FoR. However Erik, who was not trained in the method, was able to observe the process of internalizing latent Aether released from places of mass death and violence, so that suggests to me this is an empirically observable phenomenon, albeit not necessarily one that has progressed in popular knowledge beyond conjecture or an obscure theory.
If the process of unlocking Chakra is objective and can be accomplished in that specific method, it is not inconceivable other martial artists who unconsciously or intentionally repeated the method could at least unlock Chakra in the same way, ignorant of the terminology and methodology specified by FoR training. In other words, it's like the multiple discovery concept from science. With all the haranguing about how dangerous this setting is going around the forum, isn't it rather easy to consider the possibility that a person who already understands the concept of using Aether to empower themselves trained in a battlefield where mass death occurred? Perhaps like the leftovers of a massive Xaela tribal war, or even razed Doma?
That being said, if there was concurrent discoveries regarding the same natural force, I think that the terminology, method of use and extent of understanding would probably differ wildly. Theoretically, if another group discovered the "Chakra" at the same time, the name given wouldn't be the same. In addition, FoR at its height was very well established and state supported, so it is unlikely another monastic tradition elsewhere in the world would have been able to achieve the same depth of understanding. It might be that they are only capable of unlocking a few Chakra due to limited access to sufficiently Aether-suffused battlefields, too.
We've also never established that Monk specifically and exclusively refers to a Fist of Rhalgr. Monk is a generic term like Kleenex in Eorzea; in the context it might refer to a Fist of Rhalgr, and in game play terms that is the only order we're allowed to learn from, but the term itself is pretty standard. Does this mean no monks exist within the Halonic religion, or that the term could not even be applied to their equivalent?
Moreover, the +60 storyline suggests that some of the theories about how the Chakra are unlocked towards the higher levels of mastery are either false or poorly understood. You can say "It's the WoL, they're a special snowflake," but I wonder about that. The process of internalizing latent battlefield Aether to open a Chakra is established as objective fact, and it is a specific mechanism that is repeatable among many individuals in different locations given similar circumstances, a fact which Widargelt seemed ignorant of. How could the order be so sure that the method of training is exactly how they established within the Order, long before the Mad King dissolved the temple, when clearly even an experienced Monk seemed to not fully understand at least half of the discipline? And it is established too that there are inimical factions within the temple that have different attitudes on how to go about training.
I guess my point is that certain elements of the MNK questline are quantifiable enough that they can't be considered to be something FoR created, only discovered, at least in Eorzea. Other elements cast doubt upon the FoR's absolute knowledge of their own power outside of an instinctual and metaphysical spirituality. There is enough grey area that you could write a convincing enough reason for someone learning to use Aether in martial arts in the manner of the FoR on their own, or as part of a similar martial order. True a lot of speculation is present here, but I think it is ultimately more honest to say "it could happen" rather than assert it as an effective impossibility.
Addressing the other approach, I think that the idea of a FoR moving to Othard and eventually training someone isn't inconceivable, but definitely a special case sort of scenario. Considering why someone would do it properly is tricky. We know that the temple was dissolved, and Garlemald rules both Othard and Ala Mhigo. Consider scenarios where a traitor to the order whose training was incomplete cast her lot with the Garleans and went to Othard to train soldiers in martial arts, while cherry picking specific trainees or civilians to build an unofficial, bastard branch of the Fists in secret as a kind of trump card with which they could seize political power after returning to Eorzea, or something like that. Or maybe they were an Obi-Wan style figure who fled Ala Mhigo in shame after failing to defend the country, and found someone with the proper potential in Othard.
For these situations, I feel a basic familiarity with martial arts tropes from the core is really helpful in crafting scenarios that feel dramatically interesting and still seem like they could take place in the setting. Watching a lot of Wuxia would probably help. Contrary to the popular Western image of martial artists, the Chinese entertainment and literature bloc has all kinds of empowered warriors, from men who simply obtained great strength from single-minded training, to members of monastic orders, to criminals and thugs who essentially dropped out of chi school, to political fanatics and assassins who developed godlike martial arts to further their cause. It is far from the sterile discipline of shaolinesque monk orders (And even the shaolin are wildly misunderstood) we see in typical RPGs. FoR appears to be this sort of order from the outside, but it doesn't even truly exist anymore, so even that is only suggested by the lore, after the fact. In such a chaotic setting, could any single codified method of training in chakra-based martial arts really be considered to be the only one? That's what I'm skeptical of. Even familiarity with the tropes of martial-arts fiction clearly suggests that anyone, ANYONE who knows the right tricks and has the correct training, and in some cases, latent potential, can be capable of the things FoR is. And even if the techniques are super secret, anyone even passingly familiar with kung fu fiction knows that such techniques never stay secret for long.
Your post is amazing, and I'm going to take everything you said into consideration. Thank you so much!
I was actually using the Xaelan battlefield approach as methods one could unlock Chakra..and I agree that it's likely a similar, style of fighting could originate elsewhere, which is likely what I will go with. Something that isn't Eorzean or Ala Mhigan in origin, but something else unique to itself.
