(06-14-2016, 09:00 AM)Warren Castille Wrote:Never, because mass-shootings happen in gun-free zones. All those places? Had rules against carrying guns. There was a mass shooting that was stopped, just after the Pulse one in California. ISIS had called for more attacks just like it, and a member was on their way to a gay club there, but he was stopped before he even got there. Has there been a mass shooting where people were allowed to carry guns? Even VA Tech has a no carrying law, as most colleges/university in my state do.(06-14-2016, 08:54 AM)Arrelaine Wrote:(06-14-2016, 08:35 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: It's sad how often this link has been used in the past year.But they wouldn't not have access to guns. Look at drugs. Prohibiting drugs certainly didn't make it harder to aquire them. The Cartels from Mexico smuggle them in on an hourly basis. They would still have access to guns. If you put in gun laws, guess who doesn't have access to guns? The people who are willing to protect themselves. All of those places had no-gun rules. What would have been the outcome had someone else other than the police officer outside had a gun there, who had their permits, their classes and their training?
Askier Wrote:Are guns a big responsibility? Yes? Are they dangerous? Yes, when used by a person for ill intent only though. Guns are just tools after all. They do not move or fire unless a human being picks them up and uses them. They are hunks of emotionless metal. Guns are not the problem. I learned that while living in London. A city with very strict gun laws. And you know what happened while I was there? The government had to ban knives outside the home cause too many people were getting stabbed.
Huh. Imagine. Nut cases simply using something else to kill someone. Humans are going to kill each other. We've been doing it for millennia. Â Taking away weapons normal people can use to keep themselves safe won't fix it. This is something bigger. Something no law will fix.
This will be as-applicable when one person with a knife can kill 50 people in a club in minutes, or a student can kill 30 college kids with a single knife, or someone with mental health issues can murder two dozen school children in seconds with a single knife.
Law doesn't have to fix it, it just has to make it harder to do it this easily. Hell, no law in the history of man has gone unbroken, so why bother having any of them? I mean, drugs and prostitution and everything else is illegal and people still do it, so why bother legislation against them? People are just gonna be people, so we might as well give up on trying to not listen to our lizard brains.
I'm not grumping at Askier in particular, but "people are just going to do it anyway" is the worst defense for guns, and it seems to only ever come up regarding guns. Think of how many lives would have been saved in Colorado, or Florida, or Sandy Hook if these people only had access to knives.
Also, all of those incidents, people had guns illegally. None of those people were legal gun owners. Even the guy in Florida would have been an illegal owner had his ex-wife reported him for domestic violence. They all either had a rap sheet, or they had mental health histories, and they got their guns from legal gun owners (which is also illegal). You can't own a gun legally if you have any sort of mental health history, drug abuse, or really anything on your rap sheet that would have landed you in jail. They -already- 'do it anyway', it's already supposed to be 'harder' for them to get it.
Everyone here where I live conceal carries. We have almost no gun-related violence. Everyone assumes everyone else has a gun, and the rare occurrence is a robbery at a gas station.
"The system works, it's just everyone else failing it?" Sandy Hook took his mom's weapon. Orlando bought his weapons legally. I don't recall off the top of my head where Virginia Tech bought his, but VA has such lax gun laws it's laughable.
Again, if "everyone would do it anyway" how come drugs are still illegal? Gambling, outside of select states? Speeding? Law in general? Why is it always guns that people clamp down on?
What's the last mass-shooting that was stopped by a heroic concealed-carrying citizen?
And exactly, Sandy Hook stole his mother's guns (which is illegal). Orlando wouldn't have been bought legally if his wife had reported him for domestic violence. VA tech did buy his legally, before they closed the loophole where people with an unstable mental history could still buy guns so long as they didn't go to a ward. Now if you have a prescription for any kind of mind-altering substance, you can't get one legally.
I don't think we need speeding, drug, prostitution or gambling laws. If people want to do stupid things to themselves I don't care what they do. Prostitution and drugs would be a heck of a lot safer if people didn't fear punishment and actually get help with not doing dirty drugs or getting STDs. In other countries, there are places were there are no speeding laws, rarely does anyone get hurt. In other countries, prostitution is legalized and the prostitutes can regulate themselves, and demand testing or protection. People don't rape or abuse them because they're protected by law. Here, they're going to get arrested if they go to someone and say 'hey I'm a prostitute and I was raped'. I already made the point about drugs and alcohol. Alcohol is by far a worse substance, yet it's legal to drink it, and people go out and kill people by the -thousands- because of drunk driving.
