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(08-15-2016, 04:56 PM)Faye Wrote: Imo, cleric stance and attack skills were put in the game largely for solo-leveling (and if you have solo-leveled, say, a WHM, you know exactly how much damage these skills put out for you: not very). Sure, the game teaches you how to use them in instances and parties, because that's a thing you can do and is super helpful if you're able.
I only point out this quote because apparently it's a highly prevalent excuse in the community, that Healers have access to DPS abilities only for the sake of solo content just like all DPS classes have defensive abilities that allow them to solo without getting eaten horribly. So I threw together a little something a while back.
Over 1/3rd of every healer’s action list is made up of abilities that deal or affect damage. This is more offensive abilities than most tanks have defensive abilities. And a far greater number than the minimal “solo abilities†afforded DPS classes. See below:
Healer Offensive Abilities
WHM: 10/28 (35%)
SCH: 11/28 (39%)
AST: 9/28 (32%)
DPS Defensive Abilities
MNK: 4/28 (14%)
DRG: 2/28 (7%)
NIN: 3/28 (10%)
BRD: 3/28 (10%)
MCH: 1/28 (3%)
BLM: 4/28 (14%)
SMN: 6/28 (21%)
This is what “solo capabilities†looks like. 1-4 abilities across the board. SMN being the obvious exception due to its affiliation with SCH. That said, they are still not a viable healer class just because they have more defensive abilities, unlike SCH they do not have access to Cleric Stance to modify their Mind stat.
Tank Defensive Cooldowns
WAR: 7/28 (25%)
DRK: 7/28 (25%)
PLD: 11/28 (39%)
With the exception of PLD, tanks have fewer defensive cooldowns than all healers have offensive abilities. Which brings me back to my qualm with the discussion at hand. There is no end to the (justified) complaints against tanks not using defensive cooldowns in DF, even though they are realistically a non-essential part of tanking lower tier content. We've all seen the "minimal effort" tank who facerolls groups and never once touches a defensive cooldown.
Please, stop perpetuating the solo excuse. If SE intended Cleric Stance only for solo/raid use, they wouldn't have included these lines in the Hall of the Novice for healers, which is specifically for learning low-level group play:
Master of Magicks Wrote:When you've healed all there is to heal, there may be time to weave in some offensive magicks. But keep an eye on your companion! You should not be blasting if someone is bleeding!
Master of Magicks Wrote:Well done! A focused healer is a boon to any party! Even when it's safe to attack, always keep one eye on your allies' health!
And I think the Master of Magicks sums up when Healer should DPS perfectly! When it's safe, and when you're able to. If you're not comfortable, or the fight is rough, or tank is not using cooldowns, whatever- don't do it! It's that simple. But the overwhelming sentiment I've read in this thread is that Healers are going to give you one or the other. If someone asks me to DPS, I'm going to dps and not heal and its your fault if you die! Or, yeah, I'm a healer and I heal to heal so not touching it ever. But that's not how Cleric Stance or "stance dancing" is supposed to work. It shouldn't be 100% on or 100% off. Wax on and wax off as appropriate.
If you're uncomfortable stance-dancing, you don't have to do it! BUT, you should be practicing it so you are comfortable with it! (You're never going to get comfortable with it if you never use it!) This is what the leveling dungeons are for, learning your class. Take your healer to some FATE parties and practice Cleric Stance dancing there in a relatively safe and anonymous environment.
But I've been around the Vent thread long enough to see many many people, some of them people in this very thread, complain about people who don't know their jobs by Lv60 and are doing Expert Roulette or doing Trials. In this game, knowing how to deal damage alongside maintaining your party is a big part of knowing how to play your job (over 1/3 of your job actually) and it should be something you should be comfortable doing by level 60. A BRD has to be comfortable with using their songs in combat as much as they're comfortable with Wanderer's Minuet. It takes practice and I know BRDs out there who'd rather just straight DPS, but that's not all their job is.
(08-16-2016, 03:49 AM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: Realistically, we're talking about dungeon pugs. You're honestly lucky if you get three other people who aren't picking their collective noses and attempting to throw themselves off the side of any unguarded cliffs. Most people are just trying to get through the dungeon without killing each other. Acting like everyone has to be playing at Extreme Primal level is just silly.
Okay, but if you're the Healer in a DF dungeon and you're just spamming Cure or Adlo or Regen you're also one of those three nose-pickers? Yes, you can absolutely have a random DF experience where everyone is minimal efforting- the tank isn't using defensive cooldowns, the DPS are doing something resembling a rotation and not using damage buffs, and the healer is just sitting around waiting for their tank to dip to 90% before queuing up another Cure.
But it honestly doesn't have to be that way. The "It's just roulette, not endgame" excuse to be low effort really grates at me. Just because everyone else in the party might be bad or lazy, doesn't mean that you have to be also. Does that mean go off on everyone else verbally? NO. Does that mean treat the other people disrespectfully? NO. But if you know how to do something properly, it should be done in all public content, no matter how easy.