(06-07-2017, 09:20 PM)Graeham Wrote: Shades of grey, which exist unless you willingly choose to ignore the passages in the Encyclopedia Eorzea detailing the reasons behind Garlemald's rise to prominence in the first place. There's also the simple fact that both Gaius and Regula have been painted as very nuanced. The latter even going so far as to sacrifice himself to aid the Warrior of Light and some of his closest allies.
They're very much a case of well intentioned extremists, defending their own interests above all else - which is something equally applicable to many countries in the real world throughout history. In particular, this is the case with the Roman Empire - which to this very day influences much of the world's culture in terms of art, language, theatre and architecture. The same can be said of the British Empire as well and there's parallels/influence drawn from both where Garlemald is concerned.
Does this mean that Garlemald is completely justified? Not at all, there's a lot that needs to change and the rot needs to be cut out. All the same, there's already evidence of factions within Garlemald that desired a more diplomatic approach and a lack of over-extension. I doubt we've heard of the last of them, even if they were supposedly purged.
There's also the Archadian Empire in FFXII, which will hopefully serve as heavy inspiration for a redeemed Garlemald moving forward once we start heading deeper into their territory and seeing things from their perspective. Given the abundance of references to FFXII in the game already, though, I'm fairly confident that they'll go down that route at some point - it's but a matter of when.
Ishgard wasn't exactly shown in flattering light but they still managed to add many shades of grey to the place. Heck, they've even added shades of grey to the Ascians, particularly Elidibus. Plus the lyrics of the Revolutions song strongly imply that war has a heavy cost and that there's two sides to every story.
I know you're a huge advocate for everything Garlemald and hope that we see a more three-dimensional side to the Empire, but I have problems with this post. Because, as of yet, there are no shades of grey.
1. Garlemald's tragic backstory does not justify its current atrocities. It may make them somewhat sympathetic, but not in the right. They were banished to the northlands nearly 800 years ago. Yes, they've been picked over by larger Ilsabardian nations many times since then, but their retaliation didn't just end with those Ilsabardian nations who hurt them. They exacted revenge on peoples wholly innocent of their history and they seem to take great pleasure in the suffering of those nations.
2. Comparing the sins of other nations to Garlemald does not make the Empire's sins any better. Yes, all of the nations have done really shitty things. Does not change the fact that the Empire is neck-deep in evil agenda.
3. Two individuals, who have questionably redeeming qualities, being nuanced does not at all mean the Empire as a whole has redeeming qualities or is nuanced. Are there probably plenty of decent individuals who're living in the Empire? Sure! That doesn't mean the Empire itself is good, nor will it ever be good so long as those who are and have been in power for almost the last eighty years remain so.
Gaius van Baelsar was a great character. He's definitely the first Garlean who was introduced to us who wasn't cardboard cutout evil. He took in Cid after Midas was blown away. But telling a ragtag group of adventurers where the nearby castrum was and hoping they could stop the entire realm being annihilated by a giant moon so that he could rule over it his way (make everyone slaves) and get back to being the Emperor's pet only really wins him a couple points. He still toppled five nations, let his troops enslave and brutalize his subjects, and in the end was really just power hungry.
Regula, while actually possessing some sanity and common sense, wasn't really much more commendable. Yes, he sacrificed himself to spare an echo wielder and provide a better chance at defeating another primal. His reasoning for doing so though is "A gift the emperor may one day have need of in his war upon these untameable eikons..." Under the last emperor, having a gift that would allow one to speak with "beast tribes" was as good as being one, but I guess they've really gotten desperate in their search for a primal-killer that they're willing to make a few exceptions if it'll help Garleans kill things better.
4. The road to the Seven Hells is paved with good intentions / "Hell is full of good meanings, but Heaven is full of good works." Besides eikons killing the planet, I'm really struggling to see what other good intentions the Empire has? If they just wanted revenge against the nations that wronged them, they'd have stopped with conquering Ilsabard. If they wanted to stop the primal threat, they would've stopped at conquering Othard. Now they're just ravenous. So at this point, they are just out to commit genocide against any race they deemed detestable.
"Education" maybe? Annexed peoples are made to do hard labor. They don't seem to get educated. They do take away every child from annexed families and send them into the northlands to be brainwashed and never heard from again. This practice makes it even harder to trust the opinions of the soon-to-be-seen Ala Mhigan youth allied with Garlemald. There are Ala Mhigans who have only known Garlean rule or just don't want to be liberated, but how much of that is brainwashing and propaganda versus the Empire actually doing something beneficial for them. Technological advances? Besides the military, just how many people (especially annexed) get to actually benefit from these magitek technologies? And is getting to use this tech that may or may not be widely available to those outside Garlemald-proper worth the suppression of your rights, freedom, religion, and culture?
I would find the Empire so much more compelling if there was just one nation that has actually benefited from imperial occupation. As of right now, there are none. Maybe it'll be Hingashi. What we have seen without fail are nations who've suffered. Dalmasca, Doma, and Ala Mhigo fell in a blaze of magitek destruction. Bozja was later wiped off the map completely. Countless thousands of people incinerated in an instant, and the Empire tries to cover it up. These aren't the acts of a people who want to better others.
I think saying that there's even a shred of justification for Garlemald's actions at this point in time is beyond me. The empire as it is now has no shades of grey. It has no good deeds to its name. Good intentions went out the window in 1522, and if not then, then definitely by 1562. That doesn't mean that the Empire won't get some sort of grey scale eventually or somehow purge every last evil part of itself - but at that point the Empire would likely destabilize as annexed nations rushed to liberate themselves from a weakened regime. And it doesn't forgive Garlemald of the sins it committed in the pursuit of whatever it is it was pursuing.
