(07-21-2014, 01:56 PM)FreelanceWizard Wrote: Motivation and consequence, I'd argue, but Neutral on its own is very poor alignment descriptor.
I think this thread is a great example of the problems the D&D alignment system has, especially when dealing with settings without an objective good and evil. Palladium tends to deal with those better, but that's like saying Budweiser is better than Coors if you hate American mass market beer.
EDIT: On the topic of Limsa, Limsa doesn't really have much in the way of refugees. Those it does have (ex-pirates in a lot of cases) are typically given jobs at places like Summerford Farms or the Moraby Drydocks. Some of them are resettled in areas that are kobold territory, which is one of many reasons why Titan is now a problem.
I like the Alignment system as a framework. Â It's a great place to start! Â That or you can use the..crap, I forget the name...there's a vaguely similar system in White Wolf's game system that combines personality traits with a humanity/morality system without bringing "Good" and "evil" into the equation.
(07-21-2014, 01:57 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: Alignment, especially when considering precipice points for someone's character arc, is fluid. If we're swinging D&D alignments around, someone who's doing knowingly-questionable deeds for the greater perceived good would lend more towards Chaotic Good than anything. Knowing you could save people's lives and opting out to potentially save more lives isn't an inherently evil act because it's done to save more people, which is an inherently good act, unless of course he's saving them so he can use that as a political instrument, because then it's an evil act because he's lying to people unless he's lying to them so he can combat an evil democracy from within, at which point it becomes good again because it's for the greater good. Unless of course...
To keep my sanity, I'd've just changed that dude's alignment on his sheet half a dozen times as the story unfolded. Alignment is as much rules to govern your character with as it is earned through action.
I'm pretty sure I could never play a D&D paladin. Â But I also think the alignment system is, as I said previously, designed to greatly emphasize how hard it is for a good person to stay good in a bureaucracy.
(07-21-2014, 01:58 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: This is a good point. D&D is a setting with rules and a cosmology that reinforce its alignment system. Good is a place, it's a thing. A celestial being of pure good can drop down and tell you if something is good or not. It's not complicated human morality, it's a system for streamlining if your paladin does bonus damage on his smite attack.
Out of that framework it tends to break down, and the waters muddy very quickly.
It's actually a pretty complicated framework, but...then again I spent a lot of time RPing on D&D servers in NWN. Â
(07-21-2014, 02:00 PM)ExKage Wrote: I'd argue still that Gridania is still not doing anything to help, no matter what excuses they have for not taking in refugees. Fact of the matter is, they're still refusing them. The Twelveswood can't handle it..
Ul'dah's own resources can't handle it.
I'd almost say look at the Costa Rican? refugee issues and illegal immigrants that are trying to get into the United States. Yes, they need help. But if we tried to solve everyone's problems over our "first world problems" we'd be doing our own poor an even worse disservice.
Would Ul'dah do it for its own poor? Probably not. But if we were always to say "you left them in the state to get ____" then everyone would be guilty of everything. We'd all be evil.
From what I understand, the bulk of the refugees flooded to Ul'dah. Â Gridania took in some but stopped taking more after they hit their limit. Â I think the fact that Limsa is on an island discouraged a lot of others from trying there.
Why they picked Ul'dah is honestly beyond me. Â Sure, the city is rich, but it's in the middle of a damn desert. Â If you're a farmer fleeing the conflict, where the hell are you going to farm there? Â Where are you going to find water on a consistent basis? Â Wood for your fires and homes? Â I mean...
Some of the "crisis" is kind of manufactured from my perspective, because the logic of where they decided that everyone went doesn't really jive with me. Â It would have made more sense to me if they'd run to Gridania, tho I suppose that the bad blood between Ala Mhigo and Gridana + the mystique of the Black Shroud might have warned them away.
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