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SamusKnight2K · **04-18-2012, 05:52 AM**

Sorry Oskar, wish I could offer solutions but I can't entirely think clearly right now due to being tired. My post was just to point out a few of the problems, that's all. Opinions were wanted, so it's what I gave. I'm afraid creating solutions to these aren't my strong suit but I'll try:

On the thing about multiple linkshells if there was a way to try more diverse themes rather than falling back on the same one time and time again then it might help. Again like I said the mercenary approach seems to be a pretty popular one. And given the state of the realm is in the midst of a war it isn't too far fetched to follow this route. A few linkshells I know tried to stray from it but didn't really appear to make the cut. I suppose the best approach might be to create a poll asking what the community is most interested in, what type of shell would appeal to them the most. From there, one can get a better grasp at what may bring in the most members. Maybe two shells with similar interests can form a negotiation on their rules/view on lore then merge into one another. It's a give/take relationship.

Now with small community shells this could be tough. Getting past our comfort zones and interacting with a wider array of RPers is quite possibly the best way. Like I said people are more open to accepting certain things than they did at launch so if we can find ways to work together on this it may make it easier to get along with each other. As for helping even giving a "Sorry I'm doing this right now." response would mean a lot. Make an effort to at least show you heard the person and respond. The time someone wastes waiting for a reply could be better spent finding another party, or coming up with a different activity to do. One shell could have 30+ members active at any given time and maybe only 3 will respond. What about the other 27 people? Are they all just AFK? Expressing interest in what others around us are doing or coming to their aid is what builds a stronger community.

Hope these responses help more. If not I'm sorry. I think I'm going to bed now before I faceplant on my keyboard.

SamusKnight2K · **04-18-2012, 05:55 AM**

Sorry Oskar, wish I could offer solutions but I can't entirely think clearly right now due to being tired. My post was just to point out a few of the problems, that's all. Opinions were wanted, so it's what I gave. I'm afraid creating solutions to these aren't my strong suit but I'll try:

On the thing about multiple linkshells if there was a way to try more diverse themes rather than falling back on the same one time and time again then it might help. Again like I said the mercenary approach seems to be a pretty popular one. And given the state of the realm is in the midst of a war it isn't too far fetched to follow this route. A few linkshells I know tried to stray from it but didn't really appear to make the cut. I suppose the best approach might be to create a poll asking what the community is most interested in, what type of shell would appeal to them the most. From there, one can get a better grasp at what may bring in the most members. Maybe two shells with similar interests can form a negotiation on their rules/view on lore then merge into one another. It's a give/take relationship.

Now with small community shells this could be tough. Getting past our comfort zones and interacting with a wider array of RPers is quite possibly the best way. Like I said people are more open to accepting certain things than they did at launch so if we can find ways to work together on this it may make it easier to get along with each other. As for helping even giving a "Sorry I'm doing this right now." response would mean a lot. Make an effort to at least show you heard the person and respond. The time someone wastes waiting for a reply could be better spent finding another party, or coming up with a different activity to do. One shell could have 30+ members active at any given time and maybe only 3 will respond. What about the other 27 people? Are they all just AFK? Expressing interest in what others around us are doing or coming to their aid is what builds a stronger community.

Hope these responses help more. If not I'm sorry. I think I'm going to bed now before I faceplant on my keyboard.

Mtoto Wamoto · **04-18-2012, 09:50 AM**

With only six months left until the release of Final Fantasy XIV, version 2.0, the community at large is left with a rather daunting task and a winding road filled with a myriad of obstacles we are in dire need to overcome. While there are several details regarding the future of the game that are still under wraps by the development team, we have a general understanding as to which direction the game is heading in, and more importantly, what's in store for us: the role-players who populate the game world.

However, before we can begin to take a serious look at the future, we need to look at the current condition of the community as well as the present and ongoing challenges we face.

Up to this point, the RPC has allowed new role-players and seasoned role-players alike to find a home within the over-arching community of Balmung and Besaid. It has provided players with a central hub via forums to discuss, advertise, and plan events for the player base. However, even with the strides the RPC has taken and the efforts it has made, it still seems to be lacking in many aspects and hindered by others. Among these aspects is the sense of community, the presence of ongoing and engaging activity, a sense of order, and of course, the presence of communication, not only between the role-players, but the linkshell leaders as well.

Communication

Communication is perhaps the bane of the current iteration of the RPC, or to be more direct, the lack thereof between the heads of the linkshells and the bodies they represent. Many of the shells remaining have adopted a rather wolf pack mentality, that meaning they feed for and care for only the members within their established groups. This, of course, is a natural occurrence and was bound to happen given the nature and traditions of linkshells to begin with. However natural forming or not, it does present a set of issues that sneer in the face of unity and growth which the community so desperately needs. Issues such as OOC cross shell conflict, competition for self-gain, linkshell isolation and seclusion, needless and biased stereotyping and discrimination, and blown up and out of proportion egos have all risen and taken deep root within our floundering community. WhatÃ¢Â€Â™s left is little more than a shattered field of glass that was once intended to be a mural and mosaic of art; while those who have the ability to help piece it all back together are either too content with their current positions or too tired to try to make any change. WhatÃ¢Â€Â™s worse is that there are still others who hinge on the notion that version 2.0 will come and save us with the influx of new players. The simple truth to the latter is that if the problems present now are still present in the near future, we would have solved nothing and instead left the issues to fester and form a bigger beast to tackle. Organizing two hundred people is a challenge without proper communication and structure. Organizing nearly a thousand without either is nigh impossible.

The issue and solution here lies in the hands of communication. The heads of the shells need to come together and discuss the current state of things, evaluate what they as leaders can do to help the community return to a state of growth and unity, and lastly, make plans and follow through with them. The talk needs to be there, but talks with no action are just words being said for nothing. The linkshell leaders as a whole need to realize that they have an obligation to the community they represent, that is to say, the heads of these guilds need to be in constant communication with one another to help better the role-playing community, the RPC (or what they choose to use as the central hub for the player-base), and ensure that we as a minority are able to stand tall in the coming surge of players and face of discrimination and adversity. Recall, we are not a popular group to begin with simply due to preconceived notions and judgement surrounding us as role-players.

Sense of Community and Order

Moving along and tying together with the previous point of interest is the aspect of having a sense of community and order. To begin, let's first look at what it truly means to be a community. By definition, a community is a unified body of individuals joined together by common goals, interests, policies, history and joint ownership and participation. By that definition, no single person can claim ownership over a community nor can they simply stand idle while twiddling their thumbs. To this end, the role-playing community is owned as a whole by the members therein and formed on the grounds they agree upon. What is acceptable as proper role-play and behaved conduct should be clearly defined by way of charter formed via unanimous decision of the role-players within. This means everybody has a voice in regards to the standards we as role-players should set and follow.

Does this mean that various styles of role-play can't continue to coexist? Not at all. Instead what this entails is a social norm that the community has established to prevent players from deviating towards extreme ends of the spectrum. Examples include unexplainable demonic powers and abilities, ancient powerful relics that can create and destroy worlds, magic which has not been seen, confirmed, nor accepted by the lore established by either Square Enix or the community at large, and etc. Without order within the community and a complete understanding of the standards set in place, players are left in a rather free flow position where they can role-play in whatever manner they please, often bringing up cases like the examples listed above. Examples like these, in turn, lead to the ousting of members from the community for being different when there was nothing in place to say that they couldn't be in the first place. Having an established order to begin with helps prevent this from occurring.

On a related note, the linkshells currently found on the server all vary in different ways. From leadership style to structure and organization all the way down to role-play styles. Each linkshell should be entitled to be able to role-play in a manner that they please so long as it stays within reason to what the community and the lore has established. Furthermore, if a linkshell forms sub-communities and micro-communities within the overarching community, they should be able to so long as it does not adversely affect or undermine the sanctity of the larger community. An example of this would be a linkshell intentionally shutting themselves away OOCly and ICly from the rest of the overall role-play population for self-gain or creating a means to place one person above the rest of the community through subterfuge.

Should there be a council of leaders to help establish a greater sense of community and order? Yes and no. Ideally, the leaders of the shells should be communicating together to establish potential role-play avenues as well as plan and discuss ideas. This can be done on both fields of character, and regardless on where it starts, what matters is that content is being developed that is agreed upon and is for the greater good of the community, not the self gain of one party or individual. If a council is formed, the only authority it would have would be over the members the linkshell leaders therein manage. It should not act as a central body of government, but rather serve as an assembly of leaders called together for consultation, deliberation, discussion, and advising.

Revamp of the RPC

Spearheading into what is the final part of this post is what has already been stated by others in minute details and in redundant repetition.

The RPC as a website serves the function it is currently in place to do, that is, it acts as a central hub for members of the community to discuss, plan, and advertise events made by role-players for their fellow role-players. It also serves as a means for potential role-players to find groups they can better associate themselves with while still being part of the overall community. The problem with the RPC isn't about how clean or cluttered it is, the problem rests in the fact that it does not receive the proper support it should be getting and that the moderation and the administration is not there, leaving only one person to effectively handle things under the hood. What needs to happen is that more people need to take a stand to assist in rebuilding the website to be friendly, lively, and active place.

Having a shell like Intermission more intertwined with the inner workings of the RPC would help bolster the community because there would be moderators present who are able to advise and direct new players towards the community and places of interest both in and out of game and character. Consolidate the resources available.

In regards to Free Companies, there isn't much that can be truly said at the moment simply due to the lack of information available to us. We only know a handful of details, and even then, that may just be the tip of the proverbial iceberg. It's too early to decide a theme when we hardly know our options, but it would be naive of us to simply put it off and wait.

(Quite honestly, another thread is needed for the last topic and I'm simply far too tired to go into further detail of my thoughts on a Free Company. Expect a new thread either later today or tomorrow)

Momo · **04-18-2012, 10:19 AM**

I say we, because I mean we as a community. If we don't start acting like one now, when will we start? So I will continue to say we, because I never said anything was broken, I said that we need to talk about to better it. Better, meaning make it more functional, make it more welcoming to new members, make it more open to trying new things, make it more open to communication, just make it more than what it is now, and essentially it will be a better place for it. Certainly not everyone agrees that it needs betterment, but it seems to me from reading those interviews that Verence did, people do believe it needs to be bettered in many of the ways I mentioned, and others here are mentioning, and there is nothing wrong with making a community better, so there should be nothing against it.

I am not offended that you say that Oskar, because that's how you often are in these sorts of threads, but I also won't apologize for something that I am doing deliberately with thought put into it. We need this, to work together to bring about change, and we can outline as much as we want, but I think that we are beating a dead horse when we say things like, lets take a poll, let's outline thus again, and all I hear is lets do the same thing we've always done until we areso tired of it for the third time that we give up. I urge us to make decisions, because whatever a single person believes, it seems fairly c,ear that something has to get done so that we can follow a path that leads us to an RPC we can all enjoy. This thread is nearly identical to the last two, and will end just the same if someone doesn't make some choices, hard or not, on what needs to be done.

I'm not speaking from the standpoint of a shell, I'm not ONLY speaking from the standpoint of the current community, I am also speaking from the standpoint of fellow future RPers who will come to this site, and think all the negative things about this site that we've discussed and run for their lives away from such a great opportunity that we have here. So, again, I urge us to make a decision on something.

Kylin · **04-18-2012, 10:59 AM**

I agree with a lot of whatÃ¢Â€Â™s been said so far, especially about the lack of communication that exists. ItÃ¢Â€Â™s sad when you know just about every RperÃ¢Â€Â™s name by heart but havenÃ¢Â€Â™t interacted with so many of them on any level (IC or OOC). The Ã¢Â€Âœwolf packÃ¢Â€Â mentality most definitely exists and has for quite some time.

Regarding Ã¢Â€Âœcleaning up:Ã¢Â€Â I have actually tried multiple methods to do this (not counting just the aesthetic changes to the site). There was a new RP linkshell roll call thread posted several months ago. Not one person responded though (I since deleted the post as a result during the site overhaul). IÃ¢Â€Â™ve also sent emails to some of the more obscure RP linkshells, particularly the Ã¢Â€ÂœlightÃ¢Â€Â ones in which so many of us have never even seen/heard of. One of their leaders insisted that he wanted to keep the shell active (even though by anyone elseÃ¢Â€Â™s definition, it clearly wasnÃ¢Â€Â™t/isnÃ¢Â€Â™t). So I canÃ¢Â€Â™t really up and remove it from the list just because I /think/ itÃ¢Â€Â™s inactive.

The old inactive moderation team has been wiped and replaced with some more active mods to help oversee the forums as well. So thatÃ¢Â€Â™s helped a bit considering you can actually see moderators posting now.

Regarding linkshell leader stuff: As I said on another past thread, IÃ¢Â€Â™m not opposed to adding a LS leader forum section. However, keep in mind weÃ¢Â€Â™ve tried this before. While IÃ¢Â€Â™ve since buried most of the threads there, I can tell you that the section got really ugly toward the end. Elitism reared its ugly head and some smaller linkshells were even dubbed Ã¢Â€ÂœlolshellsÃ¢Â€Â just because they had a different style than some of the other more established shells at the time. Politics swirled out of control and it caused an intense amount of drama that killed friendships and caused the community itself to become incredibly turned off from this site. This is why the original RPC charter was killed. If weÃ¢Â€Â™re going to do a round two of this, we need to ensure the past doesnÃ¢Â€Â™t repeat itself somehow.

I also agree with Mtoto about the community being oversaturated with linkshells, considering the current size of the community right now. Too many leaders, not enough followers. This is why, after 6 months of struggling, I had no choice but to dissolve Archavalon. As you can see though, IÃ¢Â€Â™ve kept the noble house concept alive IC even without the shell and plan to take the story to a glorious finish nonetheless >.>. ItÃ¢Â€Â™s extremely difficult to compete with already established shells, no matter how active you are in the community or how aggressive you are in recruitment or how experienced you are in leading shells. However, what can really be done about that? Nobody has any right to tell another RP group that they shouldnÃ¢Â€Â™t exist. Nobody is going agree to a merge since it will kill their own concept and undo all of their own hard work. We have no right to put a Ã¢Â€ÂœcapÃ¢Â€Â on how many RP shells the server can have, and even if we did, we couldnÃ¢Â€Â™t enforce it.

This site has definitely picked up activity in recent months compared to the stale atmosphere that existed for a long time not too long after launch. Communication is on the increase, though it still needs a little push here and there. IÃ¢Â€Â™m still shocked when I learn that some Rpers have never even heard of the RPC. I meanÃ¢Â€Â¦maybe I have a lot of bias due to being an administrator. But everyone playing this game has a PC. Everyone playing has Internet access. Therefore, everyone playing has access to these forums. Yet so many donÃ¢Â€Â™t utilize them. ItÃ¢Â€Â™s frustrating to repeat information over and over again (whether itÃ¢Â€Â™s about an upcoming event or an important thread like this) when all the information is right here on these forums to begin with. I know itÃ¢Â€Â™s impossible to force people to come here every now and then, but itÃ¢Â€Â™s frustrating when people just outright refuse to check out the forums out of laziness or whatever. In this day and age, this type of global communication is imperative in any MMO. This is why so many linkshells require prospective members to register/apply through a website.

I also wanted to take this moment to mention other fansites. When the RPC first launched, I had managed to snag support from Zam and Eorzeapedia (now Gamer Escape), along with a host of other smaller fan sites. Our server choice was promoted on the front page of many of these sites. The administration of these sites have been supportive in other ways as well. Zam gave us a wiki page, Eorzeapedia gave us a podcast, both offered to set us up an IRC room if needed, and more. Obviously these other sites will be imperative to our future promotional efforts, though their own activity has dwindled quite a bit. In regards to an earlier question about getting on SEÃ¢Â€Â™s fansite page, I have indeed tried that. Pikko, an admin at Zam, sent an email about us to her SE contact. No response was ever made however ; ;. Gamer Escape asked SE directly in an interview about their plans for the RP community. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s when we got our first official response related to a RP server, and it was later confirmed that we were indeed getting one in 2.0. That leads me to another point (I know IÃ¢Â€Â™m all over the place right now xD).

Balmung may very well not be our final home server. When SE does designate a RP server, it may be a brand new one that comes with PS3 launch. This makes promoting Balmung a very tricky situation. Also, while I have no issue at all jumping to the official RP server when it's given, I fear that not all Rpers will share that sentiment. We have to be prepared that some may stay behind to stay with their OOC pals, further splitting the community.

Shuck · **04-18-2012, 04:16 PM**

Couple things:

Oskar Helvig Wrote:As for all linkshells joining one Free Company... on what basis would this be? Simply all RP groups? So Knights and thieves in the same one? Sorry if it seems like I am trying to shoot holes through it. It's true, by the way, I am. This is a way to find if this stuff would really fly, though. Anyway, IC it doesn't make sense it seems to me... OOC it can cause tension to have people who clearly do not agree on basic RP playstyle somehow under the same roof. I would rather work from IC on. If my LS bonds closely enough with others, and if OOC'ly we have similar RP styles, then we can form a Free Company together. Makes sense to me, instead of metagaming and tossing everyone together just for the sake of what? I'd rather not be frustrated in-game. I am sure folks on all sides can agree on that.

From an IC perspective, any group deciding that they would rather fly solo than unite in the face of an extinction event on the continent would, and frankly should be shunned. Distinctions of nobility kind of cease to matter when someone is gunning for a complete and total Terminator 2 style cleansing.

From an OOC perspective: I've said this on intermission, and I'll say it again. If you're expecting people's egos, grudges, and highschool style bickering to get in the way of cooperation that benefits everyone, then you're expecting entirely too little from the community at large. As far as becoming "frustrated" while playing, I'm not entirely sure what the issue is. Are you frustrated by the other members of the Grand Company you currently belong to? Is it required that you interact, at length, with all members of said company? Does the mere existence of other players in the game world rub you the wrong way?

By your own admittance, you're trying to poke holes, but these are some incredibly weak arguments against a case that has the community's best interests in mind.

Kylin Wrote:Regarding linkshell leader stuff: As I said on another past thread, IÃ¢Â€Â™m not opposed to adding a LS leader forum section. However, keep in mind weÃ¢Â€Â™ve tried this before. While IÃ¢Â€Â™ve since buried most of the threads there, I can tell you that the section got really ugly toward the end. Elitism reared its ugly head and some smaller linkshells were even dubbed Ã¢Â€ÂœlolshellsÃ¢Â€Â just because they had a different style than some of the other more established shells at the time. Politics swirled out of control and it caused an intense amount of drama that killed friendships and caused the community itself to become incredibly turned off from this site. This is why the original RPC charter was killed. If weÃ¢Â€Â™re going to do a round two of this, we need to ensure the past doesnÃ¢Â€Â™t repeat itself somehow.

And I've got a question on this: Was that kind of behavior a bannable offense in the past? If not, why not?

Eva · **04-18-2012, 05:14 PM**

I'm still of a mindset that the RPC isn't something that a linkshell necessarily "joins" but rather is a hub for all RPers from all different communities to come together to discuss that. I don't think mandating this in any form is a good idea, for a myriad of reasons which really should be obvious enough that there be no need to outline them.

I have little else to contribute at this point that can be deemed constructive, though I will add that I think that if any real progress is to come of this discussion, the best thing that can be done by everyone is to omit any use of quote tags. These sorts of things almost inherantly wind up either being intended as jabs, or misperceived as such, and progress is stymied as good discussions turn into pissing contests. And this is why these sorts of threads seem to fall off track. That's just a suggestion though...

Smiling River · **04-18-2012, 07:03 PM**

Isaac you are creating a strawman argument when you say that a group flying solo should be shunned, because no one made that case. I made a point against uniting everyone under a single Free Company, simply because of the OOC reason that we all self-identify ourselves as Role-Players in this game. I never made a case for solo groups. What I have said though, is that I aim to unify ICÃ¢Â€Â™ly. I am not apposed to multiple Linkshells sharing a Free company, it just has to make sense ICÃ¢Â€Â™ly.

If a linkshell is a bunch of Imperials who aim to help the Empire, would they still be in this company? You speak of uniting people as if every character has the same goal. Some want to fight, others want to just live on without much care, while others prepare for post-war conditionsÃ¢Â€Â¦ there are many possibilities there, and uniting everyone not only doesnÃ¢Â€Â™t make sense ICÃ¢Â€Â™ly it also limits future RP linkshells. For example we have no Imperial LS atm, but in the future if all Linkshells unite under one Free Company, there may never be one, if you define the members of that FC as your RP community. It would be pretty implausible for them to join and remain with some other groups. And we are not even sure how the FCs will work so itÃ¢Â€Â™s hard to say how much anyone will have to interact with one another, but if there are multiple FCs, why would one company join the same FC that has their opposition? ItÃ¢Â€Â™s not like SE intends to imply that all people of Eorzea must join one FC to unite everyone under one flagÃ¢Â€Â¦ So the whole unite or die logic doesnÃ¢Â€Â™t quite workÃ¢Â€Â¦ it matters how you unite, why, with whom etcÃ¢Â€Â¦ because the fact that there can be a number of GCs/FCs indicates that the setting of the game isnÃ¢Â€Â™t as drastic, else there would theoretically be only one GC, and so on.

You use the words Ã¢Â€ÂœeveryoneÃ¢Â€Â and Ã¢Â€ÂœcommunityÃ¢Â€Â™s best interestÃ¢Â€Â in your OOC reply to this issue thereÃ¢Â€Â¦ but IÃ¢Â€Â™ve not yet any poll up with significant number of voters to indicate communityÃ¢Â€Â™s desire for any of this. Nor do I think popular opinion is automatically the right opinion. Even if 99% vote for something, it can still be wrong. Much like Momo, it seems you reply on the support of the Ã¢Â€Â˜communityÃ¢Â€Â™ behind you to cushion your point of view. Guess what? I am part of the community to. I feel like your entire post marginalizes those who are not on the same page with the premise of some of the things Ã¢Â€Â˜in the name of the communityÃ¢Â€Â™ that have been said here. That will only divide the RP community further, if you make people with different views feel like outsiders.

And yeah, mere existence of certain RP does rub me the wrong way at times. I know a number of people donÃ¢Â€Â™t mind, but I need for it to be at a certain quality (from my point of view) for me to enjoy it. ItÃ¢Â€Â™s like watching a movie where you can see the awkward dialogue and the predictable plots and so on versus a movie which completely drags you in and hours fly by without you noticing. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s one way I can describe how I feel about other styles of RP vs one I am comfortable with.

But then, I am pretty satisfied with the RPC framing the picture, instead of being used as a brush. We can agree on basic changes, but beyond that, I think that as a community of role-players, itÃ¢Â€Â™s best to not try to regulate to a degree which people here propose. Much like Eva, I feel that IÃ¢Â€Â™ve nothing left to add, as this sort of discussion seems to be pushing out decent. I just hope you guys donÃ¢Â€Â™t take that dive, of putting a fence around whatever you think the community represents and pushing people out because they donÃ¢Â€Â™t agree. ItÃ¢Â€Â™s arguably one of the reasons the RPC took a plunge some time in the past, and while specific points of arguments have changed, that ideology seems to be creeping up again, so IÃ¢Â€Â™ll just excuse myself and do whatever I think would work instead.

Shuck · **04-18-2012, 07:35 PM**

Piece by piece then. With respect to what Eva had said, these are not intended to be jabs. Just a point-by-point discussion. Here we go:

Oskar Helvig Wrote:Isaac you are creating a strawman argument when you say that a group flying solo should be shunned, because no one made that case. I made a point against uniting everyone under a single Free Company, simply because of the OOC reason that we all self-identify ourselves as Role-Players in this game. I never made a case for solo groups. What I have said though, is that I aim to unify ICÃ¢Â€Â™ly. I am not apposed to multiple Linkshells sharing a Free company, it just has to make sense ICÃ¢Â€Â™ly.

Right. And that's what I addressed. Your initial point, if you'll remember, used the example of a division between "knights and thieves", suggesting that one group would intentionally avoid any kind of cooperation with another, opting to "fly solo" rather than unite under a common banner.

In contrast, a strawman fallacy is erecting a point, and then attacking it. Which isn't what happened. Not even kind of.

Now, if survival as a realm isn't a good enough IC reason to put the active shells in Eorzea under one tent, I don't know what is. It's not as if the military in the real world is made of front-line fighters, and nothing but. There's a huge swath of professions and skill sets that make the whole thing work, which means there's a whole swath of necessary professions to make said Free Company work. There's a lot of talk of this not making sense "IC'ly", but frankly, open competition between Free Companies when the world is falling apart makes even less.

Oskar Helvig Wrote:If a linkshell is a bunch of Imperials who aim to help the Empire, would they still be in this company? You speak of uniting people as if every character has the same goal.

We don't have any. That kind of concern is really not one we need to look at, given that there's...you know, no one in that corner.

Oskar Helvig Wrote:Some want to fight, others want to just live on without much care, while others prepare for post-war conditionsÃ¢Â€Â¦ there are many possibilities there, and uniting everyone not only doesnÃ¢Â€Â™t make sense ICÃ¢Â€Â™ly it also limits future RP linkshells.

First bit: Which is fine and dandy, save for that whole extinction event thing. No one's forcing anyone to hop on board this idea, so those that don't care, for whatever crazy reason, about life ending on the continent are free to abscond.

Second bit: How...do you figure that it limits the creation of future roleplaying shells? That's totally inexplicable. The creation of an umbrella group does not preclude things existing outside of said umbrella. Think on it this way: Your umbrella is Everwatch. Other shells exist outside of Everwatch. In fact, all other shells in the community exist outside of Everwatch. The existence of your shell does not make it impossible for other shells to exist.

Therefore, a larger organization, made of many shells, would not keep other organizations from popping up.

If you could explain this point of yours a bit further, I'd appreciate it.

Oskar Helvig Wrote:For example we have no Imperial LS atm, but in the future if all Linkshells unite under one Free Company, there may never be one, if you define the members of that FC as your RP community. It would be pretty implausible for them to join and remain with some other groups. And we are not even sure how the FCs will work so itÃ¢Â€Â™s hard to say how much anyone will have to interact with one another, but if there are multiple FCs, why would one company join the same FC that has their opposition? ItÃ¢Â€Â™s not like SE intends to imply that all people of Eorzea must join one FC to unite everyone under one flagÃ¢Â€Â¦ So the whole unite or die logic doesnÃ¢Â€Â™t quite workÃ¢Â€Â¦ it matters how you unite, why, with whom etcÃ¢Â€Â¦ because the fact that there can be a number of GCs/FCs indicates that the setting of the game isnÃ¢Â€Â™t as drastic, else there would theoretically be only one GC, and so on.

Those are some incredibly large leaps of logic. Why does an umbrella organization equate to exclusivity to you? Where was that suggested? How are you arriving at that conclusion?

I can't even begin to penetrate the last half of this paragraph. It just straight doesn't make sense. Maybe you can elaborate?

Oskar Helvig Wrote:You use the words Ã¢Â€ÂœeveryoneÃ¢Â€Â and Ã¢Â€ÂœcommunityÃ¢Â€Â™s best interestÃ¢Â€Â in your OOC reply to this issue thereÃ¢Â€Â¦ but IÃ¢Â€Â™ve not yet any poll up with significant number of voters to indicate communityÃ¢Â€Â™s desire for any of this. Nor do I think popular opinion is automatically the right opinion. Even if 99% vote for something, it can still be wrong. Much like Momo, it seems you reply on the support of the Ã¢Â€Â˜communityÃ¢Â€Â™ behind you to cushion your point of view. Guess what? I am part of the community to. I feel like your entire post marginalizes those who are not on the same page with the premise of some of the things Ã¢Â€Â˜in the name of the communityÃ¢Â€Â™ that have been said here. That will only divide the RP community further, if you make people with different views feel like outsiders.

To clarify, I never said "everyone", but a prominent force in the world composed of roleplayers and their linkshells raises our visibility to newcomers, and that is in the best interest of the community. Any argument to the contrary is either shortsighted, or straight false.

Without new people, the community as a whole dies. Without visibility, we don't catch the eye of new people. Simple. It's not my intention to marginalize anyone. Quite the opposite. Bringing folks together under a larger umbrella breaks down those sorts of self-imposed, cliquish barriers that naturally pop up from time to time. If someone doesn't want in? Well, no one's twisting their arm.

Oskar Helvig Wrote:And yeah, mere existence of certain RP does rub me the wrong way at times. I know a number of people donÃ¢Â€Â™t mind, but I need for it to be at a certain quality (from my point of view) for me to enjoy it. ItÃ¢Â€Â™s like watching a movie where you can see the awkward dialogue and the predictable plots and so on versus a movie which completely drags you in and hours fly by without you noticing. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s one way I can describe how I feel about other styles of RP vs one I am comfortable with.

Not really what I asked, but ok, we'll go from here: To me, that sounds like a personal issue, and not one that needs to be aired in this discussion. I'm sure that there are people who would say the same of any kind of Everwatch event, what with the quality of storytelling being entirely subjective and all.

However, these folks who may think the same of your stuff? They all carry on just fine, from what I can see. You can do that too.

Oskar Helvig Wrote:But then, I am pretty satisfied with the RPC framing the picture, instead of being used as a brush. We can agree on basic changes, but beyond that, I think that as a community of role-players, itÃ¢Â€Â™s best to not try to regulate to a degree which people here propose. Much like Eva, I feel that IÃ¢Â€Â™ve nothing left to add, as this sort of discussion seems to be pushing out decent. I just hope you guys donÃ¢Â€Â™t take that dive, of putting a fence around whatever you think the community represents and pushing people out because they donÃ¢Â€Â™t agree. ItÃ¢Â€Â™s arguably one of the reasons the RPC took a plunge some time in the past, and while specific points of arguments have changed, that ideology seems to be creeping up again, so IÃ¢Â€Â™ll just excuse myself and do whatever I think would work instead.

That's just melodramatic. No one's being pushed out, people are being invited in. The reason for unification makes sense. It's written plainly in the game's lore: You come together, you live. In an OOC sense? Who /doesn't/ benefit from this? Who looses out on a greater organization working toward a common goal? Sharing resources?

I think the issue you're running into is that the case against an in-game unification of players is just kind of flimsy. There's a ton of check marks in the "Pro" column, and one tiny mark being "Sometimes, I don't agree with stuff" in the "Con" column.

That being said? Once again, no one is making you sign on. No one is making anyone sign on.

NKato · **04-18-2012, 08:59 PM**

Isaac Jacobi Wrote:That's just melodramatic. No one's being pushed out, people are being invited in. The reason for unification makes sense. It's written plainly in the game's lore: You come together, you live. In an OOC sense? Who /doesn't/ benefit from this? Who looses out on a greater organization working toward a common goal? Sharing resources?

I think the issue you're running into is that the case against an in-game unification of players is just kind of flimsy. There's a ton of check marks in the "Pro" column, and one tiny mark being "Sometimes, I don't agree with stuff" in the "Con" column.

That being said? Once again, no one is making you sign on. No one is making anyone sign on.

Eh...when you look at me and my issues with the community, I'd have to disagree with your position regarding the whole "no one being pushed out" part.

However, I feel that a restructure would be best planned for 2.0, and made to take into account the plethora of new features in the game. Such as dueling, which can also serve as a proper conflict resolution system, as opposed to simply RPing it out and it ending up with two people still upset at each other - though RPing it out to a conclusion is doable provided both parties had it planned out. (This is, in my opinion, one of the problems that continues to periodically rear its ugly head in XIV)

On the other hand, I'm also more concerned about whether or not linkshells/free companies will talk to each other more often in 2.0 than they have in the past. I'm talking about inter-guild events, story arcs, etc that take into account multiple parties, instead of just one or two.

The key to people understanding one another is consistent, regular interaction, regardless of the setting. You can't "know" the person or groups if you've interacted with them a handful of times with limited progress.

The biggest pitfall as I see it with 2.0 and the RP community, is seeing the same shtick repeated as what we had to go through in the first eight months of the game. That could lead to another "isolation" of the community by grouping, if left unaccounted for.

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2.0 Marketing and the RP Community's Future

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