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LiadansWhisper · **09-21-2015, 08:55 AM**

(09-21-2015, 08:53 AM)Vyce Wrote:
(09-21-2015, 07:56 AM)Kage Wrote:
(09-21-2015, 07:48 AM)Aaron Wrote: So people dont accuse you of godmodding for.. No reason other than to just be difficult.

Future tense leaves the other person open to react however they please rather than taking what you did because you used present or past tense.

(09-21-2015, 07:53 AM)Gegenji Wrote: That's how I've always seen this being used as well. It's saying that - if the other person in the RP allows it - this is what would happen. If not blocked or dodged, this punch would strike them in the jaw. He would move to wrap his arm arm around her waist. Implying intent of action without flat-out stating it is what happens in order to give the other person more agency in said action.

I've already addressed this in the opening post, as some people do it outside of just making sure that they're not taking away the other roleplayers' agency. They use it for everything.

These are cases were someone is going to do it. There's no ifs, ands or buts. There's no other person that would be there to say "NO YOU CAN'T WALK DOWN THIS STREET I HAVE AGENCY OVER THIS."

It's just seeing... "She would go to the store and see if there were apples in stock."

She's going to go to the store.

Except that she might not go to the store if someone in the alley grabbed her and pulled her away into the shadows never to be seen again.

Using future tense leaves an opening for more to happen. Adventurous RPers that are open to random encounters and unexpected things happening often use future tense in actions that could well be interrupted because they see the opportunity for the RP to be more than just apples.

Another alternative is that you grab her arm and tell her to stay with you longer. She WOULD go to the store IF nothing prevents her from doing it right now.

This can be just as easily accomplished either past or present tense.

Vyce · **09-21-2015, 09:16 AM**

No it cannot.

If "She went to the store" you cant grab her arm and stop her. She already went.

If "She goes to the store" you cannot prevent her from going because she did it.

If "She is going to the store" you can grab her arm and delay her, but she will still go sooner or later unless she changes her mind.

The only completely interactive one is future tense. Future tense has an unspoken IF.

Kage · **09-21-2015, 09:18 AM**

Except if she were to do that, it would most likely be pre-arranged. Someone sends a /tell or previous OOC message, that their character is about to get handled in some way.

It can easily be handled in past tense.
Kage went to the store in the attempt to buy an apple.
Stepping in Kage's way to the store, Marshall attempted to grab his arm while pointing a knife at the Lalafell.

Kage went to the store to try and buy some apples.
/tell Kage (Hey can I manhandle your character, to steal etc?)
/r (Sure)
Marshall stepped in Kage's way to the store, grabbing his arm and pointing a knife at his throat.

If it was so open ended, in my opinion, that just seems... well really passive aggressive.

Edit: Oops I left one of the examples incomplete.

Gegenji · **09-21-2015, 09:23 AM**

(09-21-2015, 09:18 AM)Kage Wrote: If it was so open ended, in my opinion, that just seems... well really passive aggressive.

I wouldn't call it passive-aggressive. If anything, the case Vyse is presenting is that using of the future tense is a means to imply that they are open and willing to have whatever action they're doing be interrupted for the sake of RP. Sort of an active "walk-ups okay" marker.

* Cecilia walks into the Quicksand and would move to pull out a book and begin to read.

Sure, they could just as easily say they are pulling out a book or have pulled out a book just as easily - but the person is implying "Hey, you can stop me before I pull out this book if you'd like - come RP with me!" That's how I'm reading the argument, anyway, and it's not such a bad thing.

Bryn · **09-21-2015, 09:24 AM**

(09-21-2015, 09:16 AM)Vyce Wrote: No it cannot.

If "She went to the store" you cant grab her arm and stop her. She already went.

If "She goes to the store" you cannot prevent her from going because she did it.

If "She is going to the store" you can grab her arm and delay her, but she will still go sooner or later unless she changes her mind.

The only completely interactive one is future tense. Future tense has an unspoken IF.

Yeah, it can.

Just change, "She goes to the store" to:

"She turns to head for the store."
"She begins heading for the store."

Both are present tense, both state intention while leaving an opening for intervention from a secondary party.

Personally, future tense has always struck me as a lack of confidence in writing, somewhat like the passive voice. More often than not, it's lead to me sat at my desk and wondering aloud; "Wait... He would do that? Does... That mean he doesn't? Is there something stopping him?"

It often leaves the situation unclear, and clarity should always be a writer's (and RPer's) primary concern.

LiadansWhisper · **09-21-2015, 09:24 AM**

(09-21-2015, 09:16 AM)Vyce Wrote: No it cannot.

If "She went to the store" you cant grab her arm and stop her. She already went.

If "She goes to the store" you cannot prevent her from going because she did it.

If "She is going to the store" you can grab her arm and delay her, but she will still go sooner or later unless she changes her mind.

The only completely interactive one is future tense. Future tense has an unspoken IF.

That's not true. You simply word it as, "She headed down the street towards the store."

Mission accomplished.

Vyce · **09-21-2015, 09:26 AM**

It can easily be handled in past tense.
Kage went to the store in the attempt to buy an apple.
Stepping in Kage's way to the store, Marshall attempted to grab his arm while pointing a knife at the Lalafell.

That's not a possible situation. If Kage went to the store then in present tense he is either there or has long since left. The act of going is in the past.

If Kage is on his way to the store, Marshall can attempt to grab his arm.

The most Marshall can do with the past tense is assault him in the store or try to steal the apple he already bought. Or idk just try to stab him for no reason, as long as it is not while Kage is on the way to the store...because he already went.

Ignacius · **09-21-2015, 09:30 AM**

(09-21-2015, 07:43 AM)Kage Wrote: I've finally decided to ask.

What is the reason why some roleplayers I've found are more likely to use future tense? In some or all of the cases, it's not even about compromising whether or not the other roleplayer they are interacting with will allow an action.

Sometimes it's just:

Quote:Kage Kiryuu would throw himself at the ground and then tackle the others' feet in an attempt to make him stumble.

Is this a common way to speak / roleplay in tabletop? Where does the future tense usage come from?

Edit: I've emphasized a point that has been brought up already. I know this. That's why I already mentioned it and now I've bolded it.

You will always see it applied to actions, and generally in the conditional tense. Â It denotes someone trying to do something, but doesn't place it in the present since you can't auto an attack.

It's important because, grammatically speaking, RP shouldn't be done in the past tense. Â It represents current actions in the context of the game's setting, so the correct tense for an actual in-game RP interaction would be in the present tense. Â Many are confused because a novel, generally, is written in the past tense and therefore many believe all writing is done in the past tense.

Also, technically speaking, you can't use the past tense to interrupt an action. Â If, as in this example:

(09-21-2015, 09:18 AM)Kage Wrote: It can easily be handled in past tense.
Kage went to the store in the attempt to buy an apple.
Stepping in Kage's way to the store, Marshall attempted to grab his arm while pointing a knife at the Lalafell.

You wrote in that you were attempting to buy an apple. Â However, in RP, we don't generally write that we are "attempting" to do anything that doesn't inherently involve another character. Â By the time you're writing, obviously, Kage is already at the store. Â You don't have to conditionally write that he went there (in the game, he is there).

This doesn't happen in the present tense because it's deliberately describing temporal action. Â Everything that is typed is specifically what is happening in the moment; there's no indication that this was completed beforehand. Â That's why your above example doesn't work; in the past tense, you'd have to correctly predict via conditional notation that your character didn't buy an apple. Â In the past tense, of course, you'd know you'd have bought the apple or not.

If you're going to have truly random roleplay where people can just hop in or out, you can't plan everything out like a book. Â So in addition to being technically correct, the present tense is often more mechanically useful.

That means that, if you're speaking in the present tense, any conditional action becomes future tense. Â That makes sense. Â Whereas in a book all actions are simply being retold after the fact (and by the time of the telling are preordained), RP in real time doesn't happen after the fact. Â So the use of the present tense and future conditional is the most applicable for our uses.

You'll find this is different in forum RP where you're typing out stories which may well be in the past tense and that the past tense is generally accepted to be the de facto standard for writing your own closed stories.

LiadansWhisper · **09-21-2015, 09:31 AM**

(09-21-2015, 09:26 AM)Vyce Wrote: It can easily be handled in past tense.
Kage went to the store in the attempt to buy an apple.
Stepping in Kage's way to the store, Marshall attempted to grab his arm while pointing a knife at the Lalafell.

That's not a possible situation. If Kage went to the store then in present tense he is either there or has long since left. The act of going is in the past.

If Kage is on his way to the store, Marshall can attempt to grab his arm.

The most Marshall can do with the past tense is assault him in the store or try to steal the apple he already bought. Or idk just try to stab him for no reason, as long as it is not while Kage is on the way to the store...because he already went.

As Bryn and I both pointed out, there are ways to word this in future tense or past tense that fully address what you're saying.

Kage · **09-21-2015, 09:32 AM**

But it does seem passive aggressive. The player doesn't want to aggressively go after the roleplay and instead seems to just hope for it.

I mean, if the person pulls out a book, why not just have someone say "excuse me" or something or other when they do have that book.

*Cecilia walked into the Quicksand. She looked around, noting that not one person seemed familiar. She began to pull out a book to read.

*Kage watched the woman who walked up to the spot on the railing next to him.
a) Watching her read a bit, the Lalafell pursed his lips before asking, "Are you a scholar perhaps?"
b) The Lalafell looked at the title of the book, noting that it was about Warrior origins. He inched closer before waving a hand in front of the book to try and get her attention. "Sorry miss, I had a question!"
c) Before the woman could really get into her reading, Kage elbowed her and asked her, "Noticed you looked lost! Any chance for a friendly chat with a stranger? That book looks interesting.

Gegenji · **09-21-2015, 09:32 AM**

(09-21-2015, 09:26 AM)Vyce Wrote: The most Marshall can do with the past tense is assault him in the store or try to steal the apple he already bought. Or idk just try to stab him for no reason, as long as it is not while Kage is on the way to the store...because he already went.

What about present tense, then? If Kage "is going" to the store, then he is currently in the process of doing it - success has not been implied yet, it is just what he is attempting to do. As such, it could be interrupted just as much as future tense can be.

And, as Bryn pointed out, there's ways to allow for interruption even in past tense. Rather than say Kage "went" to the store, he could have "turned and began his walk to the store." Again, the success of his arrival at said store remains nebulous and open for being stopped by Marshall.

LiadansWhisper · **09-21-2015, 09:33 AM**

(09-21-2015, 09:30 AM)Ignacius Wrote:
(09-21-2015, 07:43 AM)Kage Wrote: I've finally decided to ask.

What is the reason why some roleplayers I've found are more likely to use future tense? In some or all of the cases, it's not even about compromising whether or not the other roleplayer they are interacting with will allow an action.

Sometimes it's just:

Quote:Kage Kiryuu would throw himself at the ground and then tackle the others' feet in an attempt to make him stumble.

Is this a common way to speak / roleplay in tabletop? Where does the future tense usage come from?

Edit: I've emphasized a point that has been brought up already. I know this. That's why I already mentioned it and now I've bolded it.

You will always see it applied to actions, and generally in the conditional tense. Â It denotes someone trying to do something, but doesn't place it in the present since you can't auto an attack.

It's important because, grammatically speaking, RP shouldn't be done in the past tense. Â It represents current actions in the context of the game's setting, so the correct tense for an actual in-game RP interaction would be in the present tense. Â Many are confused because a novel, generally, is written in the past tense and therefore many believe all writing is done in the past tense.

Also, technically speaking, you can't use the past tense to interrupt an action. Â If, as in this example:

(09-21-2015, 09:18 AM)Kage Wrote: It can easily be handled in past tense.
Kage went to the store in the attempt to buy an apple.
Stepping in Kage's way to the store, Marshall attempted to grab his arm while pointing a knife at the Lalafell.

You wrote in that you were attempting to buy an apple. Â However, in RP, we don't generally write that we are "attempting" to do anything that doesn't inherently involve another character. Â By the time you're writing, obviously, Kage is already at the store. Â You don't have to conditionally write that he went there (in the game, he is there).

This doesn't happen in the present tense because it's deliberately describing temporal action. Â Everything that is typed is specifically what is happening in the moment; there's no indication that this was completed beforehand. Â That's why your above example doesn't work; in the past tense, you'd have to correctly predict via conditional notation that your character didn't buy an apple. Â In the past tense, of course, you'd know you'd have bought the apple or not.

If you're going to have truly random roleplay where people can just hop in or out, you can't plan everything out like a book. Â So in addition to being technically correct, the present tense is often more mechanically useful.

That means that, if you're speaking in the present tense, any conditional action becomes future tense. Â That makes sense. Â Whereas in a book all actions are simply being retold after the fact (and by the time of the telling are preordained), RP in real time doesn't happen after the fact. Â So the use of the present tense and future conditional is the most applicable for our uses.

You'll find this is different in forum RP where you're typing out stories which may well be in the past tense and that the past tense is generally accepted to be the de facto standard for writing your own closed stories.

I fail to see how "Liadan throws herself towards the ground, attempting to grab onto his legs" isn't grammatically correct. Yet, it is in present tense and completely allows for the other party to interrupt the actions.

Edited to add: I need caffeine.

Ignacius · **09-21-2015, 09:36 AM**

(09-21-2015, 09:33 AM)LiadansWhisper Wrote:
(09-21-2015, 09:30 AM)Ignacius Wrote:
(09-21-2015, 07:43 AM)Kage Wrote: I've finally decided to ask.

What is the reason why some roleplayers I've found are more likely to use future tense? In some or all of the cases, it's not even about compromising whether or not the other roleplayer they are interacting with will allow an action.

Sometimes it's just:

Quote:Kage Kiryuu would throw himself at the ground and then tackle the others' feet in an attempt to make him stumble.

Is this a common way to speak / roleplay in tabletop? Where does the future tense usage come from?

Edit: I've emphasized a point that has been brought up already. I know this. That's why I already mentioned it and now I've bolded it.

You will always see it applied to actions, and generally in the conditional tense. Â It denotes someone trying to do something, but doesn't place it in the present since you can't auto an attack.

It's important because, grammatically speaking, RP shouldn't be done in the past tense. Â It represents current actions in the context of the game's setting, so the correct tense for an actual in-game RP interaction would be in the present tense. Â Many are confused because a novel, generally, is written in the past tense and therefore many believe all writing is done in the past tense.

Also, technically speaking, you can't use the past tense to interrupt an action. Â If, as in this example:

(09-21-2015, 09:18 AM)Kage Wrote: It can easily be handled in past tense.
Kage went to the store in the attempt to buy an apple.
Stepping in Kage's way to the store, Marshall attempted to grab his arm while pointing a knife at the Lalafell.

You wrote in that you were attempting to buy an apple. Â However, in RP, we don't generally write that we are "attempting" to do anything that doesn't inherently involve another character. Â By the time you're writing, obviously, Kage is already at the store. Â You don't have to conditionally write that he went there (in the game, he is there).

This doesn't happen in the present tense because it's deliberately describing temporal action. Â Everything that is typed is specifically what is happening in the moment; there's no indication that this was completed beforehand. Â That's why your above example doesn't work; in the past tense, you'd have to correctly predict via conditional notation that your character didn't buy an apple. Â In the past tense, of course, you'd know you'd have bought the apple or not.

If you're going to have truly random roleplay where people can just hop in or out, you can't plan everything out like a book. Â So in addition to being technically correct, the present tense is often more mechanically useful.

That means that, if you're speaking in the present tense, any conditional action becomes future tense. Â That makes sense. Â Whereas in a book all actions are simply being retold after the fact (and by the time of the telling are preordained), RP in real time doesn't happen after the fact. Â So the use of the present tense and future conditional is the most applicable for our uses.

You'll find this is different in forum RP where you're typing out stories which may well be in the past tense and that the past tense is generally accepted to be the de facto standard for writing your own closed stories.

I fail to see how "Liadan throws herself towards the ground, attempting to grab onto his legs" isn't grammatically correct. Yet, it is in future tense and completely allows for the other party to interrupt the actions.

It's in the present tense (in the future tense, it's "Liadan will throwÂ herself..."). Â However, "...attempting to grab..." is a conditional future tense. Â It is indicating an action which has not happened yet, hence the use of the future conditional with the present tense, as I explained.

LiadansWhisper · **09-21-2015, 09:39 AM**

(09-21-2015, 09:36 AM)Ignacius Wrote:
(09-21-2015, 09:33 AM)LiadansWhisper Wrote:
(09-21-2015, 09:30 AM)Ignacius Wrote:
(09-21-2015, 07:43 AM)Kage Wrote: I've finally decided to ask.

What is the reason why some roleplayers I've found are more likely to use future tense? In some or all of the cases, it's not even about compromising whether or not the other roleplayer they are interacting with will allow an action.

Sometimes it's just:

Quote:Kage Kiryuu would throw himself at the ground and then tackle the others' feet in an attempt to make him stumble.

Is this a common way to speak / roleplay in tabletop? Where does the future tense usage come from?

Edit: I've emphasized a point that has been brought up already. I know this. That's why I already mentioned it and now I've bolded it.

You will always see it applied to actions, and generally in the conditional tense. Â It denotes someone trying to do something, but doesn't place it in the present since you can't auto an attack.

It's important because, grammatically speaking, RP shouldn't be done in the past tense. Â It represents current actions in the context of the game's setting, so the correct tense for an actual in-game RP interaction would be in the present tense. Â Many are confused because a novel, generally, is written in the past tense and therefore many believe all writing is done in the past tense.

Also, technically speaking, you can't use the past tense to interrupt an action. Â If, as in this example:

(09-21-2015, 09:18 AM)Kage Wrote: It can easily be handled in past tense.
Kage went to the store in the attempt to buy an apple.
Stepping in Kage's way to the store, Marshall attempted to grab his arm while pointing a knife at the Lalafell.

You wrote in that you were attempting to buy an apple. Â However, in RP, we don't generally write that we are "attempting" to do anything that doesn't inherently involve another character. Â By the time you're writing, obviously, Kage is already at the store. Â You don't have to conditionally write that he went there (in the game, he is there).

This doesn't happen in the present tense because it's deliberately describing temporal action. Â Everything that is typed is specifically what is happening in the moment; there's no indication that this was completed beforehand. Â That's why your above example doesn't work; in the past tense, you'd have to correctly predict via conditional notation that your character didn't buy an apple. Â In the past tense, of course, you'd know you'd have bought the apple or not.

If you're going to have truly random roleplay where people can just hop in or out, you can't plan everything out like a book. Â So in addition to being technically correct, the present tense is often more mechanically useful.

That means that, if you're speaking in the present tense, any conditional action becomes future tense. Â That makes sense. Â Whereas in a book all actions are simply being retold after the fact (and by the time of the telling are preordained), RP in real time doesn't happen after the fact. Â So the use of the present tense and future conditional is the most applicable for our uses.

You'll find this is different in forum RP where you're typing out stories which may well be in the past tense and that the past tense is generally accepted to be the de facto standard for writing your own closed stories.

I fail to see how "Liadan throws herself towards the ground, attempting to grab onto his legs" isn't grammatically correct. Yet, it is in future tense and completely allows for the other party to interrupt the actions.

It's in the present tense (in the future tense, it's "Liadan will throwÂ herself..."). Â However, "...attempting to grab..." is a conditional future tense. Â It is indicating an action which has not happened yet, hence the use of the future conditional with the present tense, as I explained.

Okay, I'm not a grammar teacher, but because she's making the attempt RIGHT NOW as opposed to in the future, I have always seen this as present tense. Yes, it leaves open future actions, but her action is in the here and now.

And I'm sorry for the huge quote, I'm on my phone.

Vyce · **09-21-2015, 09:41 AM**

@Bryn: I suppose coming from the community I come from where anything and everything could be used against you OOC, I may have a paranoia of covering my ass to circumvent the accusation of godmoding. If there are any other former GW2 rpers here,Â they might know what I mean.

In combat, future tense becomes the most ideal. If I type, "Vyce twists sideways, attempting to dodgeÂ the blow." I can get a nastygram in whisper. Yes, I know how dumb it is.
"Vyce would twist sideways, attempting to dodge the blow." runs much less risk of someone getting their jimmies rustled.

In spite of my arguments, I don't use future tense all the time. There are actions where I was use present tense. Future tense I'll only use personally when it is an action that heavily depends on the reaction from someone else.
I never use future tense (unless by accident) because I am in the moment when I RP. I think of everything as right here and now unless my character is talking about something that happened.

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The Usage of Future Tense

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes