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Gerik · **06-08-2013, 12:41 AM**

(06-08-2013, 12:34 AM)Beatric Reid Wrote:
(06-08-2013, 12:24 AM)Gerik Wrote: But really it makes more sense at that point to just create a new character, in my opinion.

Except, in my instance, (and I'm assuming anyone else who does this) the core of the character remains in tact? I mean, the things that I'm changing are so minimal that you'd probably never even notice them when involved in any typical interactions. Â ...So, it makes no sense why I would make a new character.

Yeah, I really don't see what the big deal is, here.

I should really have rephrased. "But really it makes more sense at that point to a certain degree to just create a new character, in my opinion."

By all means, if you didn't have many connections in 1.0 and the core of the character is the same, retcon away. Perhaps it would be more helpful if you asked the opinions of people who you have interacted with from 1.0?

Aysun · **06-08-2013, 12:44 AM**

(06-08-2013, 12:37 AM)Yssen Wrote: While race change can be a drastic thing, I do not think one should have to seek the approval of everyone that has interacted with their character. A simple heads up and being open to the possible reworking of past interactions and relations is all I think is reasonably required.Â

Neither do I! In fact, I said this:

"...at least having the courtesy to talk to the ones who have somewhat close relationships with your character about the change before just DOING it is much appreciated."

Just clarifying. I didn't say you needed approval, nor did I say you needed to talk to EVERYONE or anything. Just basically for the reasons you mentioned. Reworking of past interactions and such. Smile

Orlog · **06-08-2013, 12:50 AM**

(06-08-2013, 12:41 AM)Gerik Wrote: Perhaps it would be more helpful if you asked the opinions of people who you have interacted with from 1.0?

...Why?

It seems to be a common theme with all of these posts that I need to look to my fellow RPers to see if I should change my race or not. I'm just not starved enough for validation that I feel that I need to ask permission to dick about with my character. In fact, that wasn't even the topic of this thread.

In all honesty, I'm pretty confused with the type of reactions I'm getting from this.

Gerik · **06-08-2013, 12:53 AM**

(06-08-2013, 12:50 AM)Beatric Reid Wrote:
(06-08-2013, 12:41 AM)Gerik Wrote: Perhaps it would be more helpful if you asked the opinions of people who you have interacted with from 1.0?

...Why?

It seems to be a common theme with all of these posts that I need to ask for permission from my fellow RPers if I can change my race or not. I'm just not starved enough for validation that I feel that I need to ask permission to dick about with my character. In fact, that wasn't even the topic of this thread.

In all honesty, I'm pretty confused with the type of reactions I'm getting from this.

I never said to ask for permission. I said to ask for the opinions of players from 1.0 whom you had IC contact with. But of course this is coming from the fact that /I'd/ like to be notified if someone I'd been RPing with had retconned. It's really more of a courtesy measure?

Ryanti · **06-08-2013, 12:57 AM**

This makes me happy that I chose not to RP in 1.0. Frustrated

Shuck · **06-08-2013, 12:57 AM**

(06-08-2013, 12:37 AM)Yssen Wrote: A whole bunch of squiggly word-type things what I agree with whole-heartedly.

Thank you. The very idea that someone can't do whatever they please with a character (provided that it still makes sense to the overworld they inhabit) in a game of makebelieve is straight-up weird.

(06-08-2013, 12:37 AM)Aysun Wrote: Well, if you knew anything about my character in particular, you'd know that I very much am in support of deviating from the conventions provided. I avoid the tribalness, nunh-tia stuff like the plague with my character.

Yeah, I don't. I don't have any idea who your character is. I'll freely admit that. The point was made in general. Building a character solely around race is crazy. It's how you end up with a really, really bland character.

Example: Quick, describe Orlando Bloom's Legolas without resorting to goofy Elf tropes or general appearance! Go!

(06-08-2013, 12:37 AM)Aysun Wrote: In game, there are plenty of examples of those within the cities still displaying racism, which suggests to me that there still IS some "purity" in the races, even when they've moved on from their tribal roots, per your example.

Why would you assume this is the majority, rather than an ugly minority? They're highlighted. That's to draw attention to a detail. You don't highlight the entire text.

(06-08-2013, 12:37 AM)Aysun Wrote: May I offer this for you as a Miqo'te characteristic of an individual raised in Ul'dah their entire life: obviously the physical "they are a Miqo'te" characteristic. o_o While my character was raised only around ONE other Miqo'te, her mother, she still displays characteristics of her race because it's in her genes. She still has that solitary nature to an extent. Instinct, baby. The races are physically different, as well. We have different starting stats for a reason. She may excel at the more "stereotypical Miqo'te job" of Archery for that reason. While a character should be more than just their race, their race is a part of them and contributes to their interactions with others.

Oh, please. As if other races don't have solitary individuals? Hunters? That can't possibly be your argument here. Then there's the issue of starter stats. You mean those things that are so incredibly insignificant as to affect no real difference in play and viability over the entire course of the game? Those? The things that are mathematically insignificant (the smallest kind of "insignificant" there is!)? No. No, no, no. Will not do as supporting evidence.

(06-08-2013, 12:37 AM)Aysun Wrote: My point is that, TO ME (and no one has to agree, I'm not saying that, I'm just discussing my point of view), race is intertwined with the character in such a way that retconning to a new race would change the character so much that it just doesn't make sense to call it the same one.

Which is dandy fine, but let's not try to frame that as anything but an opinion.

(06-08-2013, 12:37 AM)Aysun Wrote: Please calm down. We were not attacking your friend and her decision to change her race, we were simply stating our opinions on the matter.

You're mistaking my tone. I don't swear only when I'm angry, I just swear constantly. I'm not angry. I'm not upset. The case against just makes positively zero sense to me.

And while you may not have used anything that could even remotely be considered "incendiary language", and are therefore not technically attacking anyone, it has been made clear that people find the very notion that someone might flop around with a character just oh-so-very-ghastly. And that's also dandy-fine.

It should then be perfectly acceptable for you to hear the other side of that argument (the one for doing whatever you goddamned please) without attaching any kind of subtext of hostility.

Deal?

Orlog · **06-08-2013, 12:59 AM**

(06-08-2013, 12:53 AM)Gerik Wrote: I never said to ask for permission. I said to ask for the opinions of players from 1.0 whom you had IC contact with. But of course this is coming from the fact that /I'd/ like to be notified if someone I'd been RPing with had retconned. It's really more of a courtesy measure?

Uhm... Isn't that kind of being dealt with in the creation of this thread? Also, why are you assuming that I'm just not telling anyone? This idea has been in the works since 1.0 when they announced that female Roegadyn was going to become an option. I told everyone that I RPed with in any length. I was damn excited.

I don't think there'll be any issues with people randomly deciding to change their races without telling anyone and just showing up out of the blue completely reformed.

Yssen · **06-08-2013, 12:59 AM**

(06-08-2013, 12:44 AM)Aysun Wrote:
(06-08-2013, 12:37 AM)Yssen Wrote: While race change can be a drastic thing, I do not think one should have to seek the approval of everyone that has interacted with their character. A simple heads up and being open to the possible reworking of past interactions and relations is all I think is reasonably required.Â

Neither do I! In fact, I said this:

"...at least having the courtesy to talk to the ones who have somewhat close relationships with your character about the change before just DOING it is much appreciated."

Just clarifying. I didn't say you needed approval, nor did I say you needed to talk to EVERYONE or anything. Just basically for the reasons you mentioned. Reworking of past interactions and such.

Did not think you (or anyone else for that matter) had, just stating that I do not think it is necessary.

Just a bit of clarification on my end. <3

Aysun · **06-08-2013, 01:02 AM**

For the record, I'm hearing your side of the argument quite fine Shuck. I just disagree with it, just as you disagree with mine and my reasons behind it. That's about all this is. Smile

People have every right to do whatever they want with their characters. This is just a good example that not everyone will respond the same to it if they do.

Gerik · **06-08-2013, 01:08 AM**

(06-08-2013, 12:59 AM)Beatric Reid Wrote:
(06-08-2013, 12:53 AM)Gerik Wrote: I never said to ask for permission. Â I said to ask for the opinions of players from 1.0 whom you had IC contact with. Â But of course this is coming from the fact that /I'd/ like to be notified if someone I'd been RPing with had retconned. Â It's really more of a courtesy measure?

Uhm... Isn't that kind of being dealt with in the creation of this thread? Also, why are you assuming that I'm just not telling anyone? This idea has been in the works since 1.0 when they announced that female Roegadyn was going to become an option. I told everyone that I RPed with in any length. I was damn excited.

I don't think there'll be any issues with people randomly deciding to change their races without telling anyone and just showing up out of the blue completely reformed.

I didn't assume anything, I don't even know you well enough to assume anything. I was pointing out the fact that I, personally, would like a heads up. But it's good for you that you notified people? Have fun as a female Roegadyn, they're really pretty. Smile

Vareal · **06-08-2013, 01:29 AM**

(06-08-2013, 12:37 AM)Aysun Wrote: Please calm down. We were not attacking your friend and her decision to change her race, we were simply stating our opinions on the matter.

Exactly shuck, we're not attacking you or your friend.

And as far as my comment about building a character around a race, most of us here who were around before even the original 1.0 beta test created our characters around what race we wanted to play. Most of us stuck in that race and hence we know each others characters not only by name, but also what race we prefer. So it would just be odd to think of Kylin, as example again, anything other than a Hyur midlander.

And again, if you want to change your race, more power to you; go for it. No one here is going to think differently of said person. Someone asked for our opinions and we gave them.

Uther · **06-08-2013, 01:33 AM**

Granted, I didn't read through this whole thread. I read through the first page and figured it was just a back-and-forth of the same argument for the second. I'm going to have to throw my hat in with Shuck and Bea on this one. Race should not define your character.Â I chose Midlander, not because I was planning on building my story around it, but because it had the appearance and body type I wanted. My character would have worked perfectly fine as an Elezen or a Roegadyn, with the exception of my name. In FFXI, this may have been a problem, but every city in FFXIV is a melting pot. Any race can do anything. That being said, there are instances when it makes moreÂ sense for a certain race to match a certain personality, but all-in-all, that's just stereotypes. There's nothing written in stone that says you can't be an asshole unless you play Wildwood, or you have to be in a tribe because you chose Miqo'te. When it comes down to it, for most goodÂ characters, race is little more than cosmetics.Â

Sure, you can put up the "what if my character was a racist and we were friends?" argument. But really I don't imagine there being hundreds of racists you interact with IC every day. If you play a prejudice character and your friend is a race your character doesn't like now, then tough shit I guess.

Shuck · **06-08-2013, 01:38 AM**

(06-08-2013, 01:29 AM)Vareal Wrote: Exactly shuck, we're not attacking you or your friend.

You're late to that party. You can't assume hostility simply because of differing opinion. It's just wrong, and doesn't really allow for much discussion (Someone believes something different than me? Why, they must be upset! They should calm down!). You can't just use that as a bludgeon to end any and all discussions you're unable or unwilling to carry on. Just bow out if you're going to bow out. These little parting shots are downright unnecessary (particularly when they miss the mark as thoroughly as this one.)

Anyway, that's fine if you think it's weird. Really. Nobody said it wasn't. What was said (asked, really) was why you felt that way. And then there was a discussion on the merits of the explanations offered. A short one, but a discussion none the less.

Though I have to be honest, I still don't see how it is you create a character around a race you knew jack about during the super-early (alpha tester, even) phases of the world-to-be. Much less a character that has any kind of depth. I once again point to Orlando Bloom's Legolas as my example.

Also, you...uh...may want to re-read the original post. Prior to the de-rail here. You answered a request that wasn't ever voiced. Which then begged some more questions. And here we are!

Aysun · **06-08-2013, 01:40 AM**

Arg, you definitely should have read through it. x_x

Shuck · **06-08-2013, 01:44 AM**

(06-08-2013, 01:40 AM)Aysun Wrote: Arg, you definitely should have read through it. x_x

Why? Looks to me like he's got a decent grip on the discussion so far.

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