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C'io Behkt · **07-27-2013, 03:33 AM**

(07-24-2013, 01:20 PM)Wolf Wrote: Intervening worries me a little. I'd like to try and do it if I think my character would naturally involve themselves but I'd be worried about upsetting the actual RP'ers.

"Why is this guy barging into our scene and spoiling the moment..?"

I wouldn't really worry too much about that; I'd like to think that most RPers are very open to being interrupted by roleplay. After all, that's why they're sitting around and typing instead of throwing fireballs at monsters, right? Sometimes "the moment" is made by people inserting themselves into the scene, so if you're scared of spoiling "the moment"... also consider that you may be denying them another "moment" by not doing what your character would do -- butt in. Smile

Navei · **07-27-2013, 05:35 AM**

A lot of my early entries into RP have been through impromptu meetings. It was always a mix of one thing leads to another sorta deal. I enjoyed your post though, it makes me look forward to meeting a few more folks.Â

Cactuar

FreelanceWizard · **07-27-2013, 11:00 AM**

(07-24-2013, 01:20 PM)Wolf Wrote: Intervening worries me a little. I'd like to try and do it if I think my character would naturally involve themselves but I'd be worried about upsetting the actual RP'ers.

"Why is this guy barging into our scene and spoiling the moment..?"

I'm going to be angry and soapbox-y here for a minute (again, actually Smile

) -- not at you, but at the people who engage in behavior like your italicized quote and have promoted it as acceptable behavior. This whole concept of "you're barging into my public scene and that's not okay" needs to be crushed, smashed, incinerated, and tossed into the depths of the sea, because it's a toxic, evil concept that starts RP communities down the road to ruin.

If a group of people are RPing in public, their characters are in public*. The IC consequence for their IC action is that people might come up and engage them. If they get angry at you OOC for doing so, if they think you're barging into their scene and ruining it, if they act like it's some huge imposition for you to talk to them (OOC): they're bad RPers, period. They're ignoring ICA=ICC, they're non-consenting things that exist in the world, they're not keeping the IC/OOC line, and they're being cliquish jerks besides.

So -- get involved. Talk to people. (Feel free to interact with my character anytime, anywhere. Smile

) Don't worry about people getting angry at you for doing so, because the good RPers will welcome your contribution, and you don't want to RP with the bad ones anyway. You may not always get the IC reaction you want, but a good RPer is going to RP with you.

(* - Public being defined as "obviously public." There's public, and then there's not exactly public, and that's a function of how far away are they from where people normally are and whether they're using private channels like /party. Good judgment applies and a /tell can clarify things if need be.)

K'nahli · **07-27-2013, 01:09 PM**

(07-27-2013, 11:00 AM)FreelanceWizard Wrote:
(07-24-2013, 01:20 PM)Wolf Wrote: Intervening worries me a little. I'd like to try and do it if I think my character would naturally involve themselves but I'd be worried about upsetting the actual RP'ers.

"Why is this guy barging into our scene and spoiling the moment..?"

I'm going to be angry and soapbox-y here for a minute (again, actually ) -- not at you, but at the people who engage in behavior like your italicized quote and have promoted it as acceptable behavior. This whole concept of "you're barging into my public scene and that's not okay" needs to be crushed, smashed, incinerated, and tossed into the depths of the sea, because it's a toxic, evil concept that starts RP communities down the road to ruin.

If a group of people are RPing in public, their characters are in public*. The IC consequence for their IC action is that people might come up and engage them. If they get angry at you OOC for doing so, if they think you're barging into their scene and ruining it, if they act like it's some huge imposition for you to talk to them (OOC): they're bad RPers, period. They're ignoring ICA=ICC, they're non-consenting things that exist in the world, they're not keeping the IC/OOC line, and they're being cliquish jerks besides.

So -- get involved. Talk to people. (Feel free to interact with my character anytime, anywhere. ) Don't worry about people getting angry at you for doing so, because the good RPers will welcome your contribution, and you don't want to RP with the bad ones anyway. You may not always get the IC reaction you want, but a good RPer is going to RP with you.

(* - Public being defined as "obviously public." There's public, and then there's not exactly public, and that's a function of how far away are they from where people normally are and whether they're using private channels like /party. Good judgment applies and a /tell can clarify things if need be.)

Ehehe, thank you, but it's not even about them being vocal. I'd be worried they were silently thinking something similar even if they politely reacted accordingly IC. I tend to be like that and I will especially be worrysome at first since this is a very new experience to me ^^"

Gideon Aryeh · **07-27-2013, 01:19 PM**

(07-27-2013, 11:00 AM)FreelanceWizard Wrote:
(07-24-2013, 01:20 PM)Wolf Wrote: Intervening worries me a little. I'd like to try and do it if I think my character would naturally involve themselves but I'd be worried about upsetting the actual RP'ers.

"Why is this guy barging into our scene and spoiling the moment..?"

I'm going to be angry and soapbox-y here for a minute (again, actually ) -- not at you, but at the people who engage in behavior like your italicized quote and have promoted it as acceptable behavior. This whole concept of "you're barging into my public scene and that's not okay" needs to be crushed, smashed, incinerated, and tossed into the depths of the sea, because it's a toxic, evil concept that starts RP communities down the road to ruin.

If a group of people are RPing in public, their characters are in public*. The IC consequence for their IC action is that people might come up and engage them. If they get angry at you OOC for doing so, if they think you're barging into their scene and ruining it, if they act like it's some huge imposition for you to talk to them (OOC): they're bad RPers, period. They're ignoring ICA=ICC, they're non-consenting things that exist in the world, they're not keeping the IC/OOC line, and they're being cliquish jerks besides.

So -- get involved. Talk to people. (Feel free to interact with my character anytime, anywhere. ) Don't worry about people getting angry at you for doing so, because the good RPers will welcome your contribution, and you don't want to RP with the bad ones anyway. You may not always get the IC reaction you want, but a good RPer is going to RP with you.

(* - Public being defined as "obviously public." There's public, and then there's not exactly public, and that's a function of how far away are they from where people normally are and whether they're using private channels like /party. Good judgment applies and a /tell can clarify things if need be.)

Â AMEN! SIR, AMEN!
Â
I 10000 percent agree wit this. If you are participating in public rp and you ignoreÂ onÂ someone on purpose YOU ARE A BAD ROLEPLAYER! Yes yes you are!
Â
*mumbles: Shoot don't be bringing that cliquish crap to the server I'm playing on I'll tell you that...

FreelanceWizard · **07-27-2013, 01:42 PM**

(07-27-2013, 01:09 PM)Wolf Wrote: Ehehe, thank you, but it's not even about them being vocal. I'd be worried they were silently thinking something similar even if they politely reacted accordingly IC. I tend to be like that and I will especially be worrysome at first since this is a very new experience to me ^^"

Rest assured, almost every RPer won't be. They'll be glad to have your addition to the RP!

Ellie · **07-27-2013, 02:40 PM**

Personally, I don't feel like being annoyed that someone jumped into your RP without making sure it's okay with the group necessarily makes you a bad roleplayer. Not all private roleplays start out private, and people have been known to use public areas to represent private areas that cannot be accessed. (People's houses for instance)

Not to mention that just jumping in like you own the place would seem a bit rude to anyone, and for all they know you could be another griefer (they've been known to jump in pretending they're going to play along and end up doing something ridiculous like undressing their characters and doing inappropriate things to your character).

Simply sending an OOC message or a /tell asking if it's alright to join in wouldn't hurt you anybody else, and it shows that you respect their space. You'll be treated with less hesitation and annoyance, and you'll find that people rarely refuse to let you play.

Some people like jumping in, and that's fine, but you probably shouldn't expect everyone to be okay with it, and you definitely shouldn't write anyone who isn't off as a bad roleplayer.

Gideon Aryeh · **07-27-2013, 03:06 PM**

(07-27-2013, 02:40 PM)Ellie Wrote: Personally, I don't feel like being annoyed that someone jumped into your RP without making sure it's okay with the group necessarily makes you a bad roleplayer. Not all private roleplays start out private, and people have been known to use public areas to represent private areas that cannot be accessed. (People's houses for instance)

Not to mention that just jumping in like you own the place would seem a bit rude to anyone, and for all they know you could be another griefer (they've been known to jump in pretending they're going to play along and end up doing something ridiculous like undressing their characters and doing inappropriate things to your character).

Simply sending an OOC message or a /tell asking if it's alright to join in wouldn't hurt you anybody else, and it shows that you respect their space. You'll be treated with less hesitation and annoyance, and you'll find that people rarely refuse to let you play.

Some people like jumping in, and that's fine, but you probably shouldn't expect everyone to be okay with it, and you definitely shouldn't write anyone who isn't off as a bad roleplayer.

Â For me its often about the way its handled. I'm of the total immersion rp school, I'm also a freeform improv on the spot roleplayer. In real life I am not going to have conversations openly out in public that I don't want others to be a part of, and if the conversation starts off one way and turns private in an mmo I will turn to party chat and whispers/tells. I won't keep having a conversation right smack out in the open that all can hear. I'll just let whoever the private rp is starting to happen withÂ a "hey lets go to party for this convo". Its a simple fix to not have to deal with griefers or people you don't want getting into your rp. If its really a big deal we can easily head off to a more secluded area or a private instance to finish the conversation.
Â
Bottom line for me is I find it low when people just ignore people for engaging their characters in the moment like that. Why not just do what people do in real life in these situations? Go to a secluded place or at least tell the new person "Hey this is a bit of a private chat". Instead of outright ignoring them. I think outright ignoring is just well....rude. It would be rude in real life and I don't see a true ic rper not thinking that its not rude to do it in game either. All it does is alienate people and give a well deserved title of elitist jerk to the offenders. I mean I've engaged groups in private rp that's happening out in the open and if they are well meaning someone will step up icly and tell me that they are busy or one will give me a tell saying "Hey just give us a moment" and that's wonderful.
Â
But the point of not saying anything at all and just straight up ignoring someone yeah, that's pretty foul.Â Most people are not going to assume that a public out in the open conversation is private. It shouldn't be on the part of the person starting to engage the public private group to guess this. It should be on the part of those engaging in that private moment to tell the new person what they are doing because fact is, you are doing a private moment out in public where people can hear it.
Â
Going to party chat or tells personally is the way I handle that. People often understand when they see a group standing around each other but they don't see/hear what they are saying. Its an easy indicator to tell that they a are speaking in private at that moment and with the fact that eight people can be engaged in party, or at least an ic linkshell I think its an easy solution as opposed to outright ignoring someone.
Â
So yes I say those who ignore others like that are bad roleplayers. I'm sorry butÂ those that ignore people on purposeÂ Â are, it does nothing to foster community at all and just brings in bad feelings. Get enough groups doing it and it brings a bad title to the server, and I've seen that happen in too many mmos to name. Not to mention it also does nothing to foster roleplay opportunities in the long run. And honestly its a bit childish elementary school playground behavior and none of us are kids.
Â
"Oh I'm ignoring you because you tried to talk to me, nah nah nah *puts fingers in ears and runs away* Rolleyes

Â
So hey as FW said, if you see my characters out in public speaking out in public, engage them I won't get mad or anything because If I wanted to be in a private conversation I would be talking in well private. I will never ignore anybody, just ain't cool in my book and is a bad mark of poor roleplaying. Yes, yes it is.
Â
And as far as griefers go, well I eat those *drinks his daily cup of *Man Up*
Â
Honestly that is what blacklisting/ignore is for. I don't let griefers ever ruin my day period. Blacklist/Ignore and the show goes on.
Â
See you all in game!

K'nahli · **07-27-2013, 03:24 PM**

Is /tell the equivalent of whispers and PMs?

Gideon Aryeh · **07-27-2013, 03:26 PM**

(07-27-2013, 03:24 PM)Wolf Wrote: Is /tell the equivalent of whispers and PMs?

Â Yes in some games it is.

Naunet · **07-27-2013, 03:30 PM**

(07-27-2013, 03:06 PM)Rock Sandbourne Wrote: if the conversation starts off one way and turns private in an mmo I will turn to party chat and whispers/tells. I won't keep having a conversation right smack out in the open that all can hear. I'll just let whoever the private rp is starting to happen with to "lets go to party for this convo". Its a simple fix to not have to deal with griefers or people you don't want getting into your rp. If its really a big deal we can easily head off to a more secluded area or a private instance to finish the conversation.

Yea, see, I don't subscribe to the notion that roleplayers should feel the need to take RP to party or whispers just to avoid griefers. That takes the RP away from the server. But I sure as hell am going to ignore someone who runs up all "HAI GUISE *takes off pants*", because 99% of the time, that person is a griefer through and through. I've also ICly responded to someone walking up and asking in /say where they could find glyph vendors in TERA, so it's not like I just ignore any walk-up RP that happens.

But I am not going to hide away just to avoid griefers. I am not ashamed of my roleplay, and I'm not going to act like I should be.

Gideon Aryeh · **07-27-2013, 03:34 PM**

(07-27-2013, 03:30 PM)Naunet Wrote:
(07-27-2013, 03:06 PM)Rock Sandbourne Wrote: if the conversation starts off one way and turns private in an mmo I will turn to party chat and whispers/tells. I won't keep having a conversation right smack out in the open that all can hear. I'll just let whoever the private rp is starting to happen with to "lets go to party for this convo". Its a simple fix to not have to deal with griefers or people you don't want getting into your rp. If its really a big deal we can easily head off to a more secluded area or a private instance to finish the conversation.

Yea, see, I don't subscribe to the notion that roleplayers should feel the need to take RP to party or whispers just to avoid griefers. That takes the RP away from the server. But I sure as hell am going to ignore someone who runs up all "HAI GUISE *takes off pants*", because 99% of the time, that person is a griefer through and through. I've also ICly responded to someone walking up and asking in /say where they could find glyph vendors in TERA, so it's not like I just ignore any walk-up RP that happens.

But I am not going to hide away just to avoid griefers. I am not ashamed of my roleplay, and I'm not going to act like I should be.

Â Oh I totally agree with you, I mean in the case of what Ellie had mentioned. Griefers who try to become part of the conversation to try to screw it up. (Though I've never experienced this personally).

I think if you don't want anybody coming into a private convo to mess it up well turn to party chat and tells.

So don't get me wrong I am all about not hiding my rp either. So I totally agree with you.

Ellie · **07-27-2013, 03:43 PM**

Taking it to party chat only works if you have 8 people or less, not to mention that people rely on the /emote command a lot in roleplaying and not everyone likes trying to simulate emotes in asterisks or switch to paragraph form.

I'm not saying that ignoring someone when they're trying to roleplay with you is alright, but if you do something that people see as rude, they're more likely to do something rude in return. It's human nature, and it happens to the best of us. All I'm saying is that if you want to err on the side of caution, sending a little message asking if it's okay can go a long way.

FreelanceWizard · **07-27-2013, 04:46 PM**

Personally, I think it's the presence of griefers that drives the "people I don't know getting involved is a potential threat" logic, which then leads to accusations of cliquish behavior from new players, which then causes cliquish behavior. This is easily defused by assuming good faith until someone demonstrates otherwise.

To the point about responding to rude behavior, obviously, there's a difference between IC and OOC reactions. If you come up to my character and she's having a shouting match with someone in public, then you try to comfort her, she's probably not going to respond pleasantly IC. OOC, I welcome the addition to the RP, but IC? The reaction will probably be icy. Likewise, jumping into a conversation she's having with people at a table in a tavern may, depending on what's said and how it's approached, get a cool response. However, all of this is IC -- and if my character chews you out IC, you can be sure there'll be an OOC tell coming to apologize for her being such an ass and let you know it's all IC.

The bad RPer is the one who asserts RP in an obviously public location is private, dismisses or gets annoyed OOC with those who attempt to engage there, and attempts to control OOCly who can and cannot RP with them in an obviously public location. That's inconsiderate and poor RP by any standard. Again, in this instance, I'm referring to clearly public locales -- the Adventurers' Guild, the main streets of a city, the Bismark, etc. I'm not referring to locations off the beaten track, player or FC housing, or very secluded locales where there's a possible intent to be private. It is not rude OOC to engage with people RPing in an obviously public location, and you do not have to ask them if it's okay to start RPing with them. They accept the IC consequence of the existence and social interactions of other characters the second they take the IC action of speaking in a public location. (Your character's actions may be rude IC, but ICA=ICC; be prepared to accept a negative response IC.)

That said, my message is simple: It's simply wrong to think it's not okay OOC for people to get involved with your RP in a public place. If you want your RP to be private, don't do it in public.

As a postscript, I'm sure I come off as an angry lunatic here, but the sort of "my scene in the Adventurers' Guild where I cough up blood and my friends come in and help me, but you can't RP a reaction or helping because it's a private scene" behavior, as well as the "oh, I'm going to ignore you because I don't know you're an RPer and, oh, you didn't ask first before talking to me, so even though I'm spouting rhetoric that'd provoke a response from you, I'm going to complain OOC that your responding was rude and invading my scene" behavior, is a massive pet peeve of mine. It splits the community, alienates new players, creates cliques, destroys any semblance of being welcoming, and promotes this strange belief that ICA doesn't equal ICC unless you want it to and it furthers your OOC goals. I'm sorry, but I can't accept that.

We as a community should not accept that.

Ashren Dotharl · **07-27-2013, 05:04 PM**

I think I'm going to end up parroting a lot of what's already been said in my own words, but personally I feel that if you start an RP in public you should have the guts to maintain it in public. We have a blacklist for a reason, if you have a griefer come up and start bothering you then just blacklist them so you can't hear them anymore. If they continue to pest you, you can easily report them since we'll have live GM support, or merely walk away. By taking RP into /tell or /party all this does is send a message to griefers that they can push us around and manipulate us. If you stand your ground and take affirmative action against them, it shows them that we're a strong community willing to defend what we enjoy as much as anyone else.

One of the things I have absolutely LOATHED in my past experiences with MMO was that most RP was contained exclusively within /guild, /tell, or /party and unfortunately that just made the world feel dead to me. When I come to an RP server I have this hope that it'll feel lively, that I'll walk down a busy street and see all kinds of conversations, or people going about doing something in emotes. Anything to make a city feel like a city, instead of people being tucked away in dark corners and the city streets being silent. Nothing is more disappointing than coming across a large group of people who obviously look like roleplayers, only to find out they're all sitting around silently because their RP is guild exclusive and taking place in /guild.

I can understand that sometimes there's a necessity for it, perhaps you're doing some kind of event, or personal RP that might be intended to be isolated (similar to an instanced quest), and in these cases I can't complain, but if you're sitting in a tavern drinking and having a conversation I see no reason why it should be done in anything other than /say unless the conversation is ICly being kept private, such as two folks whispering to each other in a corner or something. Anyways, that's just my opinion.

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Why I love it when other RPers crash my scene

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