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Jancis · **07-10-2014, 02:42 PM**

That makes a lot of sense. Honestly I see most of the people who use that as their reason is because they're trying to be special.Â

I haven't pictured people who were not trained properly to either know enough to have their poor usage pose as a health factor; if it did I kind of imagine that it would be brought to light by other conjurers before it got out of hand. Considering how early on it shows up on the conjurer quest line I took it as a basic training that any book for "home-schooled" or "self-taught" conjurers to have easy access to.

It wouldn't be a big secret beyond the weird hermit girl with her young mother that was herself a hermit and ended up killing herself leaving her daughter confused and sad about the world in her own twisted perspective. That's all. While the Conjurer Guild wouldn't have propaganda that "CONJURING KILLS!" they might have a calmer banner that "Conjuring: Is it for You. The Things You Need to Know."

Also I've never met an airship pilot. Le Sad... but Yo Ho and a bottle of Rum to the pirates!

As long as you're having fun you're winning the game.

Laugh

Warren Castille · **07-10-2014, 03:00 PM**

(07-10-2014, 02:42 PM)Jancis Wrote: That makes a lot of sense. Honestly I see most of the people who use that as their reason is because they're trying to be special.Â

I haven't pictured people who were not trained properly to either know enough to have their poor usage pose as a health factor; if it did I kind of imagine that it would be brought to light by other conjurers before it got out of hand. Considering how early on it shows up on the conjurer quest line I took it as a basic training that any book for "home-schooled" or "self-taught" conjurers to have easy access to.

It wouldn't be a big secret beyond the weird hermit girl with her young mother that was herself a hermit and ended up killing herself leaving her daughter confused and sad about the world in her own twisted perspective. That's all. While the Conjurer Guild wouldn't have propaganda that "CONJURING KILLS!" they might have a calmer banner that "Conjuring: Is it for You. The Things You Need to Know."

Also I've never met an airship pilot. Le Sad... but Yo Ho and a bottle of Rum to the pirates!

As long as you're having fun you're winning the game.

I pictured the Conjurer's guild to look like a big-city public school. Wall to wall packed with people all learning at different rates and so on.

That's whether or not you want to consider that everyone practicing conjury even went through the guild proper. Lots of folks picked up a sword after witnessing heroes slay a dragon; There's no reason someone with some innate talent on the far side of the world doesn't just stick with what works. You're a poor kid in Ul'dah taking care of your starved family and find out you can smooth over the nicks and wounds of the refugees that are stealing food and raiding caravans. Do you care that you're doing it "properly" or that you feel better after eating more than a handful of beans and some seeds?

Jancis · **07-10-2014, 03:49 PM**

(07-10-2014, 03:00 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: Â Do you care that you're doing it "properly" or that you feel better after eating more than a handful of beans and some seeds?

No, you don't care.

Then again you either:
a) Are told how to do it proper and listen to that advice.
b) Get "found" for such innate ability and given a scholarship, ergo start doing it right.
c) Die a short time later. Or long time later.

Overall, I am really confused why the whole concept of using one's own aether is some big secret. I get that it was hyped up for the quest, but in practice it doesn't make sense to not have that common knowledge.

We also have an universal spoiler that our characters typically live through anything, making them heroes to some extent or at least damn lucky. So yes, you the poor kid from the refugee group healing people from whatever you managed to figure out on your own would likely be found and 'saved' and survive.

I mean it's as likely as a highlander not trained in arctic conditions to go out on a search by himself and then get lost in the frozen tundra and surviving somehow after hours of being exposed to the elements. Lalalalala elements...

Warren Castille · **07-10-2014, 04:23 PM**

You cut me like a knife, dear Jancis.

Jancis · **07-10-2014, 05:54 PM**

Le Gasp! What have I done!

Being right has so many burdens...

... please someone go north and use their personal aether to heal Warren and bring him back safely.

Chocobo

Warren Castille · **07-10-2014, 06:29 PM**

You're actually reading that overdramatic wreck of a blog? For shame!

C'kayah Polaali · **07-10-2014, 07:00 PM**

-- deleted --

When enough people say that forcefully that I'm doing it wrong, it's time to change that part of C'kayah's backstory.

LiadansWhisper · **07-10-2014, 07:05 PM**

(07-10-2014, 07:00 PM)C Wrote: I wanted to expand a bit on what I wrote before, because I think the reasons I chose this limitation can be applied to a lot of the people who did so.

Five years ago the Red Moon crashed down on Eorzea and everything changed.

The Garleans had been pushing into Hydaelyn, and things were looking grim. C'kayah was living in the Shroud at the time, and as the Garleans pressed forward, he moved to Gridania proper. The soldiers who weren't already out fighting were massing for the last defense of Gridania. Anyone who was able bodied was taught to use a weapon, because there was every expectation that they would have to. And anyone with the barest hint of conjury was hastily trained by the conjurer's guild. C'kayah already was a decent field medic, both from his tribal days as a hunter and from his weeks in the field guarding caravans and the like. His possession of the conjurer's talent led to him also being taught to tap into it. Because time was short, the training was hasty and incomplete.

After Carteneau, his teachers urged him to complete his training, but he had other plans for his life. After the attack on him at the Royal Ball, he spent some time in Gridania under the conjurer's tutelage, but he's still got a long ways to go.

I imagine his is a very common story.

It's important to remember that the average person trying to learn Conjury can't drain their own aether. Â They don't have the innate talent for it. Â The reason Selphie was able to drain her own life force to heal others is that she was quite literally born with the innate ability to perform conjury without any training. Â This is because she was born a Hearer (and had been suppressing/ignoring that aspect of her abilities for years). Â So the average joe with a half-assed bit of training in conjury is just going to fail the spell they're trying to cast - not drain their own life force instead.

McBeefâ„¢ · **07-10-2014, 07:08 PM**

(07-10-2014, 07:00 PM)Ckayah Tia Wrote: I wanted to expand a bit on what I wrote before, because I think the reasons I chose this limitation can be applied to a lot of the people who did so.

Five years ago the Red Moon crashed down on Eorzea and everything changed.

The Garleans had been pushing into Hydaelyn, and things were looking grim. C'kayah was living in the Shroud at the time, and as the Garleans pressed forward, he moved to Gridania proper. The soldiers who weren't already out fighting were massing for the last defense of Gridania. Anyone who was able bodied was taught to use a weapon, because there was every expectation that they would have to. And anyone with the barest hint of conjury was hastily trained by the conjurer's guild. C'kayah already was a decent field medic, both from his tribal days as a hunter and from his weeks in the field guarding caravans and the like. His possession of the conjurer's talent led to him also being taught to tap into it. Because time was short, the training was hasty and incomplete.

After Carteneau, his teachers urged him to complete his training, but he had other plans for his life. After the attack on him at the Royal Ball, he spent some time in Gridania under the conjurer's tutelage, but he's still got a long ways to go.

I imagine his is a very common story.

To think of it in physical terms. There are probably Archers who learned the wrong form, and are fucking up their shoulders and back with every shot, or gladiators who never quite learned the proper form.

Plenty of people learn 'How' to do things when time is short, but they often don't learn the why. I can imagine conjurors in time of crisis learning some jury rigged method of closing wounds or throwing rocks at people, but not really understanding what is going on.

McBeefâ„¢ · **07-10-2014, 07:09 PM**

(07-10-2014, 07:05 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote:
(07-10-2014, 07:00 PM)C Wrote: I wanted to expand a bit on what I wrote before, because I think the reasons I chose this limitation can be applied to a lot of the people who did so.

Five years ago the Red Moon crashed down on Eorzea and everything changed.

The Garleans had been pushing into Hydaelyn, and things were looking grim. C'kayah was living in the Shroud at the time, and as the Garleans pressed forward, he moved to Gridania proper. The soldiers who weren't already out fighting were massing for the last defense of Gridania. Anyone who was able bodied was taught to use a weapon, because there was every expectation that they would have to. And anyone with the barest hint of conjury was hastily trained by the conjurer's guild. C'kayah already was a decent field medic, both from his tribal days as a hunter and from his weeks in the field guarding caravans and the like. His possession of the conjurer's talent led to him also being taught to tap into it. Because time was short, the training was hasty and incomplete.

After Carteneau, his teachers urged him to complete his training, but he had other plans for his life. After the attack on him at the Royal Ball, he spent some time in Gridania under the conjurer's tutelage, but he's still got a long ways to go.

I imagine his is a very common story.

It's important to remember that the average person trying to learn Conjury can't drain their own aether. Â They don't have the innate talent for it. Â The reason Selphie was able to drain her own life force to heal others is that she was quite literally born with the innate ability to perform conjury without any training. Â This is because she was born a Hearer (and had been suppressing/ignoring that aspect of her abilities for years). Â So the average joe with a half-assed bit of training in conjury is just going to fail the spell they're trying to cast - not drain their own life force instead.

While someone might not literally be a hearer, I think it's possible they could still damage their body by not conjuring spells correctly.

LiadansWhisper · **07-10-2014, 07:15 PM**

(07-10-2014, 07:09 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: While someone might not literally be a hearer, I think it's possible they could still damage their body by not conjuring spells correctly.

I really don't think so unless they were unable to channel aether at all, like the Lalafell in the THM questline. Â For him, attempting to channel aether WAS detrimental to his health. Â But there's nothing in the lore or story to suggest that Random Joe Bob attempting to conjure would automatically be harvesting his own life force. Â Conjury appears to naturally pull from the lifeforce around you.

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I would honestly liken a Hearer to someone with the Conjury switch defaulted to "on" even if it shouldn't be. Â A regular Joe is more like someone attempting to decipher the Conjury switch so they can figure out how to flip it.

Erik Mynhier · **07-10-2014, 07:29 PM**

I am not entirely sure this would work for the topic founder, this is just an offering to how I handle Erik when he puts on his white mage bootys. I state that the small amount of defensive conjury he has was learned in Stillglade and honed in Dragonhead as a priest, not a wht or cnj. He is a priest, simple as that. He uses the conjury skills in a limited way, focusing more in IC on priestly duties. In the time I have done this it has never been questioned rp wise, because I avoid the whole thing by going the FFT route. To me both jobs, White Mage and Dragoon are such minefields. I know many who play them well, but I am not that good so I hang back a bit.

Nyx Ashkala · **07-10-2014, 08:01 PM**

Helpful or not, I still like to hear how others play their conjurers so thank you Big Grin

.
Right now, A'ria is more focused on botany and using her knowledge of herbs to help heal naturally instead of jumping to magic use every time someone bleeds.

I'm kind of approaching this like I did with my Blood Elf priestess on WoW. Not everyone then could wield the Light with 100% accuracy and precision, and using the Light to heal everything could exhaust the healer enough that they aged quicker, or even died (much like Arcane from WoW as well). Then, the Light could actually further injure the person it's being used on because it could heal the body too fast.

Correct me if the dangers of healing in this game are different, as I'm still reading up on lore. I just assume that everything should be used in moderation and that it can always be used incorrectly.

FreelanceWizard · **07-10-2014, 08:17 PM**

(07-10-2014, 08:01 PM)Aria Wrote: I'm kind of approaching this like I did with my Blood Elf priestess on WoW. Not everyone then could wield the Light with 100% accuracy and precision, and using the Light to heal everything could exhaust the healer enough that they aged quicker, or even died (much like Arcane from WoW as well). Then, the Light could actually further injure the person it's being used on because it could heal the body too fast.

Correct me if the dangers of healing in this game are different, as I'm still reading up on lore. I just assume that everything should be used in moderation and that it can always be used incorrectly.

I can maybe help with the metaphysics lore, though there's not that much to go on (and some, like arcanima, is rather vague). Magic in XIV isn't very much at all like magic in WoW. Metaphysically, you have three different basic approaches to channeling Aether into magic:

Conjury is the art of channeling elementally aspected Aether from the world around you.
Thaumaturgy is the art of channeling your internal Aether into elementally aspected magic.
Arcanima is the art of channeling Aether through symbology, geometry, and Aetheric crystals. While there's been no explicit statement to this effect, I surmise that it uses both internal and external Aether.

As Liadan noted, Selphie is an outlier in terms of what she does. A Conjurer suffers no risk to themselves (short of exhaustion, loss of focus, or however you RP running out of MP) through using their magic, as they're not using their own Aether to power their spells. However, learning Conjury requires an appreciation for and attunement to the elements (and Elementals). Thaumaturgy requires no such attunement, but it does require considerable reserves of personal Aether; those without such innate reserves can kill or seriously injure themselves by attempting to wield the art, which is why the Guild explicitly doesn't train a particular lalafell in the class quest line. Arcanima seems to be something you can learn if you have the innate talent and level of perseverance to obsessively study arcane geometries (thus the joke about arcanists being OCD mathematicians with magic squirrels Smile

).

Thaumaturges have no ability to heal with their own spells, and they're the only mages who potentially risk themselves through their use of their magic. Both of the healers (conjurers and arcanists) don't channel Aether in a way that could be potentially harmful to the user -- bearing in mind that Selphie is stated to be a strange, worrisome exception to the norm -- so screwing up a spell is more likely to have no effect or unintended effects (as the channeled Aether does something you didn't want) than harming the user.

I'm explicitly leaving out Succor (White Magic) in the discussion above because it's not especially well-defined, the lore on it between 1.0 and 2.0 is dramatically different, and I don't want to start a flame war about it. Smile

EDIT: And I'm excluding in my mention about the risks of Conjury anything about the ire of the elementals for similar reasons, though depending on who you ask, the misuse of Conjury may or may not have repercussions in that regard, especially in the Shroud.

LiadansWhisper · **07-10-2014, 08:20 PM**

(07-10-2014, 08:01 PM)A Wrote: Helpful or not, I still like to hear how others play their conjurers so thank you .
Right now, A'ria is more focused on botany and using her knowledge of herbs to help heal naturally instead of jumping to magic use every time someone bleeds.

I'm kind of approaching this like I did with my Blood Elf priestess on WoW. Not everyone then could wield the Light with 100% accuracy and precision, and using the Light to heal everything could exhaust the healer enough that they aged quicker, or even died (much like Arcane from WoW as well). Then, the Light could actually further injure the person it's being used on because it could heal the body too fast.

Yeah...the Lifeforce/Succor is not the Light from Warcraft.

Quote:Correct me if the dangers of healing in this game are different, as I'm still reading up on lore. I just assume that everything should be used in moderation and that it can always be used incorrectly.

You're actually a hell of a lot more in danger of stripping the life from the land around you if you go around healing everyone and everything than you are of killing yourself in the process (though, of course, anything is possible, and the trees might also eat you). Â The lore surrounding the White Mage questline mentions that the reason the Elementals currently restrict Succor is precisely because White Magic (of which Conjury is a very, very small part) is every bit as detrimental to the land and world as Black Magic - when abused and overused. Â There's a reason why the Conjurer mantra is "borrow, then return." Â You're expected not to overuse the lifeforce you're drawing from, because to do so is abusive and would actually harm the land around you.

From everything I've seen in-game, conducting a serious, in-depth healing as a Conjurer is no more "dangerous" to your health than being the surgeon in a several-hours-long surgery. Â Are you going to be tired? Â Sure. Â I mean, everyone is tired after a hard-days work. Â Is it detrimental to the surgeon's health to be conducting surgery to save the life of a patient?

Uh, not really.

Questions For White Mage/Conjurer Character

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