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Adventurer · **10-08-2014, 10:07 AM**

The problem with that trailer is we're only explicitly shown one of each race. I had a quick look through and there's no sign of any other Miqo'te, Elezen, Roegadyn other than the three fighting alongside the Warrior Midlander. I also didn't seeÂ anyÂ Highlanders at all, as the camera moves quite fast so it's hard to tell.

That doesn't mean all Roegadyn are Paladin, all Miqo'te Archers, all Elezen Black Mages and Highlanders don't exist.Â Tongue

It's one example out of many. It falls down to as Franz said, I think.Â There simply isn't enough evidence to really prove either way.

Though I'm hoping this might be a question that comes up on a lore Q&A. Along with other defined racial differences.

Warren Castille · **10-08-2014, 10:09 AM**

(10-08-2014, 10:07 AM)Adventurer Wrote: The problem with that trailer is we're only explicitly shown one of each race. I had a quick look through and there's no sign of any other Miqo'te, Elezen, Roegadyn other than the three fighting alongside the Warrior Midlander. I also didn't seeÂ anyÂ Highlanders at all, as the camera moves quite fast so it's hard to tell.

That doesn't mean all Roegadyn are Paladin, all Miqo'te Archers, all Elezen Black Mages and Highlanders don't exist.Â

It's one example out of many. It falls down to as Franz said, I think.Â There simply isn't enough evidence to really prove either way.

Though I'm hoping this might be a question that comes up on a lore Q&A. Along with other defined racial differences.

I wasn't referring to derplander's party. I was referring to the huge sweeping battlefield shots only show tall races.

Adventurer · **10-08-2014, 10:10 AM**

(10-08-2014, 10:09 AM)Warren Castille Wrote:
(10-08-2014, 10:07 AM)Adventurer Wrote: The problem with that trailer is we're only explicitly shown one of each race. I had a quick look through and there's no sign of any other Miqo'te, Elezen, Roegadyn other than the three fighting alongside the Warrior Midlander. I also didn't seeÂ anyÂ Highlanders at all, as the camera moves quite fast so it's hard to tell.

That doesn't mean all Roegadyn are Paladin, all Miqo'te Archers, all Elezen Black Mages and Highlanders don't exist.Â

It's one example out of many. It falls down to as Franz said, I think.Â There simply isn't enough evidence to really prove either way.

Though I'm hoping this might be a question that comes up on a lore Q&A. Along with other defined racial differences.

I wasn't referring to derplander's party. I was referring to the huge sweeping battlefield shots only show tall races.

So was I. As the camera sweeps through the soldiers, they're all of the same size as the Adder Midlander who gets neck-sliced right at the end. The camera moves too fast to notice any real differences - and there aren't any figures standing out from the crowd as a Roegadyn would, for example.

Warren Castille · **10-08-2014, 10:12 AM**

(10-08-2014, 10:10 AM)Adventurer Wrote:
(10-08-2014, 10:09 AM)Warren Castille Wrote:
(10-08-2014, 10:07 AM)Adventurer Wrote: The problem with that trailer is we're only explicitly shown one of each race. I had a quick look through and there's no sign of any other Miqo'te, Elezen, Roegadyn other than the three fighting alongside the Warrior Midlander. I also didn't seeÂ anyÂ Highlanders at all, as the camera moves quite fast so it's hard to tell.

That doesn't mean all Roegadyn are Paladin, all Miqo'te Archers, all Elezen Black Mages and Highlanders don't exist.Â

It's one example out of many. It falls down to as Franz said, I think.Â There simply isn't enough evidence to really prove either way.

Though I'm hoping this might be a question that comes up on a lore Q&A. Along with other defined racial differences.

I wasn't referring to derplander's party. I was referring to the huge sweeping battlefield shots only show tall races.

So was I. As the camera sweeps through the soldiers, they're all of the same size as the Adder Midlander who gets neck-sliced right at the end. The camera moves too fast to notice any real differences - and there aren't any figures standing out from the crowd as a Roegadyn would, for example.

...well then I guess neither of us exists. Shit. REALITY IS AN ILLUSION

THIS IS ALL A SIMULATION IN A VIRTUAL REALITY BUBBLE

NOTHING IS TRUE EVERYTHING IS P

Adventurer · **10-08-2014, 10:13 AM**

(10-08-2014, 10:12 AM)Warren Castille Wrote:
(10-08-2014, 10:10 AM)Adventurer Wrote:
(10-08-2014, 10:09 AM)Warren Castille Wrote:
(10-08-2014, 10:07 AM)Adventurer Wrote: The problem with that trailer is we're only explicitly shown one of each race. I had a quick look through and there's no sign of any other Miqo'te, Elezen, Roegadyn other than the three fighting alongside the Warrior Midlander. I also didn't seeÂ anyÂ Highlanders at all, as the camera moves quite fast so it's hard to tell.

That doesn't mean all Roegadyn are Paladin, all Miqo'te Archers, all Elezen Black Mages and Highlanders don't exist.Â

It's one example out of many. It falls down to as Franz said, I think.Â There simply isn't enough evidence to really prove either way.

Though I'm hoping this might be a question that comes up on a lore Q&A. Along with other defined racial differences.

I wasn't referring to derplander's party. I was referring to the huge sweeping battlefield shots only show tall races.

So was I. As the camera sweeps through the soldiers, they're all of the same size as the Adder Midlander who gets neck-sliced right at the end. The camera moves too fast to notice any real differences - and there aren't any figures standing out from the crowd as a Roegadyn would, for example.

...well then I guess neither of us exists. Shit. REALITY IS AN ILLUSION

THIS IS ALL A SIMULATION IN A VIRTUAL REALITY BUBBLE

NOTHING IS TRUE EVERYTHING IS P

IT WAS ALL IN OUR HEADS. PANIC.

Edit: On a closer look-through I think I spotted a Highlander. WARREN COME BACK YOU EXIST.

But yeah. Might be best to wait for Sounsyy just in case there has been anything official said on the entire thing. I'm currently sat on the "I don't know WHY or HOW a Lala punch hurts, but I think it does" pile.Â Laugh

Kage · **10-08-2014, 10:22 AM**

Yes but that does mean that if we have -have- to discount their weapons that they would -have- to be more adept at using them than their counterparts.

He's a "one-off" but he's merely one of the survivors. The blind lalafell in the Company of Heroes group who fought Titan was a pugilist.

In regards to the opening video showing the battle... it's a movie. You don't see most of the little blobs but when you do you want the striking visuals. Lalafells are awesome but in a movie trailer? You want the forms the stand out and take notice. From that viewpoint, we don't see any pugilists at all! Most of the Garlean forces have the gunblades, lances or shield and board. Or the magiteks. But we know they have conscripted mages.

Warren Castille · **10-08-2014, 10:23 AM**

(10-08-2014, 10:13 AM)Adventurer Wrote:
(10-08-2014, 10:12 AM)Warren Castille Wrote:
(10-08-2014, 10:10 AM)Adventurer Wrote:
(10-08-2014, 10:09 AM)Warren Castille Wrote:
(10-08-2014, 10:07 AM)Adventurer Wrote: The problem with that trailer is we're only explicitly shown one of each race. I had a quick look through and there's no sign of any other Miqo'te, Elezen, Roegadyn other than the three fighting alongside the Warrior Midlander. I also didn't seeÂ anyÂ Highlanders at all, as the camera moves quite fast so it's hard to tell.

That doesn't mean all Roegadyn are Paladin, all Miqo'te Archers, all Elezen Black Mages and Highlanders don't exist.Â

It's one example out of many. It falls down to as Franz said, I think.Â There simply isn't enough evidence to really prove either way.

Though I'm hoping this might be a question that comes up on a lore Q&A. Along with other defined racial differences.

I wasn't referring to derplander's party. I was referring to the huge sweeping battlefield shots only show tall races.

So was I. As the camera sweeps through the soldiers, they're all of the same size as the Adder Midlander who gets neck-sliced right at the end. The camera moves too fast to notice any real differences - and there aren't any figures standing out from the crowd as a Roegadyn would, for example.

...well then I guess neither of us exists. Shit. REALITY IS AN ILLUSION

THIS IS ALL A SIMULATION IN A VIRTUAL REALITY BUBBLE

NOTHING IS TRUE EVERYTHING IS P

IT WAS ALL IN OUR HEADS. PANIC.

Edit: On a closer look-through I think I spotted a Highlander. WARREN COME BACK YOU EXIST.

But yeah. Might be best to wait for Sounsyy just in case there has been anything official said on the entire thing. I'm currently sat on the "I don't know WHY or HOW a Lala punch hurts, but I think it does" pile.Â

OH! Phew. Thank god. My brief existential crisis is resolved.

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See, I just can't wrap my head around it hurting. There's no reason for it to unless Eorzean physics are completely loopy for one particular set of peoples. It would be like getting punched by a six year old. Sad

Warren Castille · **10-08-2014, 10:27 AM**

(10-08-2014, 10:22 AM)Kage Wrote: Yes but that does mean that if we have -have- to discount their weapons that they would -have- to be more adept at using them than their counterparts.

I'm not understanding. Yes, lalafell aren't some rare race, but you're still 4/5ths more likely to fight someone your own approximate size than you are someone a third as tall as you.

Discounting weapons (in a bare-handed environment) would only make them harder to hit, not suddenly more competent as a result.

Kage · **10-08-2014, 10:32 AM**

(10-08-2014, 10:27 AM)Warren Castille Wrote:
(10-08-2014, 10:22 AM)Kage Wrote: Yes but that does mean that if we have -have- to discount their weapons that they would -have- to be more adept at using them than their counterparts.

I'm not understanding. Yes, lalafell aren't some rare race, but you're still 4/5ths more likely to fight someone your own approximate size than you are someone a third as tall as you.

Discounting weapons (in a bare-handed environment) would only make them harder to hit, not suddenly more competent as a result.

What I mean is that there has to be a reason for them to be able to reach those positions in those armed forces. If you say that they just can't pack a punch worth a damn, and discount any type of aetheric steroid, that means that their skill levels with weapons on average would have to be better. You might not be able to hit the smaller target in your first few fights but you're not a novice. At some point because you have been training with them just as long as they have with you, you're going to be able to fight with them. It's not as if lalafell rarely fight.

Edit: As pointed out already, the trailers can be taken with a grain of salt. I tried, but did not see a single pugilist in the opening video. You don't even have one in derplander's party when he's fastforwarded. They want visual impact and it's so much more easier to make an impact when everyone is around the same size barring wittle lalafell whm.

Kinono · **10-08-2014, 10:32 AM**

(10-08-2014, 09:59 AM)Warren Castille Wrote:
(10-08-2014, 09:55 AM)Kage Wrote: But lalafell are just as numerous in number with fighters as there are Roegadyn, Hyur, etc (Almost every single security team has them, I say every because I'm sure there's some example of none). They aren't rare breeds like... well one would say "oh we have someone with dwarfism for you to fight today! special!" It's a common day occurrence with the population numbers. My expectation is that people of Eorzea (perhaps not so Garlemald ;p ) have grown up having to had to spar with and fight with lalafell.

I'll say again: Only lalafells in the ARR trailers are casters. That's as definitive of a fighting force as we get.

I'm going to assume Kage may have meant more "security" force rather than fighting force, and we do see Lalafell on every security force that it makes sense for them to be on. Lalafell stand guard all throughout Ul'dah, no less armed and no more reluctant at frightening the rabble into peace if their pop-up dialogue bubbles are to be believed. These aren't rouges or magicians or anything where they're just gonna hop out and take people by surprise. These are bouncers and guardsmen. Â People specifically trained to act and look intimidating enough to enforce peace. And, save for the whole...

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...we've been led to believe these are successful security forces.

This would imply lots of things about that security force, which Kage also mentioned; these Lalafell would have had to train right along side their taller allies. Each and every one of them. That means that the element of surprise you may have mentioned before about "belts and knees" no longer applies, because trained soldiers would beÂ accustomed to fighting such enemies, assuming they were trained in an area where Lalafell were common place (cold shoulder to you, Gridania).

Personally... I like to bypass the issue, because bringing up physics in a fantasy game just tends to tick people off. Kinono is trained in bows, and should she be looking to kill, would be more likely to use poisons than physical strength. She has basic martial knowledge, but nothing she's confident enough in that she would rely on if a scuffle broke out anyway.

Warren Castille · **10-08-2014, 10:41 AM**

I'm hearing the point, I'm just not agreeing with it. Those armed guards are all armed. To bring up my point earlier: It's still going to hurt if a six year old hits you with a hammer, and you're still going to bleed if they cut you with a knife.

Training to fight lalafell is undoubtedly a thing that happens in militaries and forces and whatnot, but again, you're still 1/5 as likely to be fighting them. You'd spend 1/5th of your training against smaller opponents. It doesn't make sense to focus on battling combatants that small when it cuts into time for the rest of the "normal" battlefield.

I still feel that, in a real skirmish, most people are instinctively going to keep their eyes up to look for perceived threats. Lalafells running around below the radar so to speak would be a viable tactic: If your shield is up you can't see through it, and if your arms are in your face to attack or protect, they aren't blocking down low.

It just still strikes me as silly and unreasonable to think that lalafells don't have to adapt their fighting styles to fight anyone and just treat combat like they're a normal-sized individual. I know people freak out when physics come into play, but there have to be SOME ground rules, and given that gravity works and carriages are still drawn by beasts of burden and everything else seems to work just like it does on earth, I don't think it's too unreasonable to assume muscle mass and density work the same, too.

Edit: I'm still talking specifically about unarmed lalafell punches knocking down roes being my hang-up here.

OttoVann · **10-08-2014, 10:45 AM**

Interesting points Warren. I wish I had more for you m8 but maybe the only thing I can offer is...not fight Lalas? I know I wouldn't at least hand to hand. If that makes me an awful Roleplayer well...I am indeed an awful one so it wouldn't be wrong.

But consider Warren how would you want to handle or view a fight with a midlander woman? (Assuming this character has some sort of martial prowess background).

Warren Castille · **10-08-2014, 10:47 AM**

(10-08-2014, 10:45 AM)OttoVann Wrote: Interesting points Warren. I wish I had more for you m8 but maybe the only thing I can offer is...not fight Lalas? I know I wouldn't at least hand to hand. If that makes me an awful Roleplayer well...I am indeed an awful one so it wouldn't be wrong.

But consider Warren how would you want to handle or view a fight with a midlander woman? (Assuming this character has some sort of martial prowess background).

Not fighting them is something I've considered, but I'd feel like a dick and a bully depending on the circumstances.

Warren's fought midlander (and highlander) women in the Grindstone. He doesn't strike them and just tries to disarm or knock them off balance.

I did deadlift suplex Anelia last time, though. Feel a little guilty about that.

OttoVann · **10-08-2014, 10:51 AM**

(10-08-2014, 10:47 AM)Warren Castille Wrote:
(10-08-2014, 10:45 AM)OttoVann Wrote: Interesting points Warren. I wish I had more for you m8 but maybe the only thing I can offer is...not fight Lalas? I know I wouldn't at least hand to hand. If that makes me an awful Roleplayer well...I am indeed an awful one so it wouldn't be wrong.

But consider Warren how would you want to handle or view a fight with a midlander woman? (Assuming this character has some sort of martial prowess background).

Not fighting them is something I've considered, but I'd feel like a dick and a bully depending on the circumstances.

Warren's fought midlander (and highlander) women in the Grindstone. He doesn't strike them and just tries to disarm or knock them off balance.

I did deadlift suplex Anelia last time, though. Feel a little guilty about that.

Alright think about this in reverse then. How do you handle fighting Max build Roe? Theyre clearly huge compared to even Max-Bara like you.

Makes me wonder how I should handle fighting Iron since he is at least 18 inches taller than me and and least 200 pounds heavier. (I am a measly 6'1. Manlet mode)

Warren Castille · **10-08-2014, 10:53 AM**

(10-08-2014, 10:51 AM)OttoVann Wrote: Alright think about this in reverse then. How do you handle fighting Max build Roe? Theyre clearly huge compared to even Max-Bara like you.

Makes me wonder how I should handle fighting Iron since he is at least 18 inches taller than me and and least 200 pounds heavier.

The reverse? I took my lumps pretty decently when fighting Ruinfeild, I think. Size difference should be a Thing when fighting someone, plus I feel it sets up decent RP. Ruinfeild suplexed me! That's MY move!

Duck and weave is my advice. Treat it like Punch-Out!! and aim for the kidneys, weaker spots. All else fails, stomp a heel on his toes and try to capitalize.

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