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Desu Nee · **04-29-2015, 11:51 AM**

(04-29-2015, 11:45 AM)Warren Castille Wrote:
(04-29-2015, 11:41 AM)Zyrusticae Wrote:
(04-29-2015, 11:38 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: If there's something you're confused about, it's that you're trying to do this in a triple-A MMO.

Fine, I will stop trying to assert my existence in the virtual worlds I use for excapism and accept the fact that I will forever be marginalized and treated as a third-rate customer if I am accepted at all.

(edit: you are being very mean right now, and I think I am going to cry. seriously cry. I am not even joking. good job, you're really something.)

I don't understand your argument. You're pointing out that that other game has so much better (for you, even) character allowances, yet you're here trying to escape. I'm missing something here.

"These cookies would be so much better if they were brownies."

HEY

FreelanceWizard · **04-29-2015, 11:54 AM**

If I may -- and please correct me if I'm wrong -- I think the argument is that XIV should have more character options and models that are accommodating for those whose preferences or real life circumstances are not compatible with the "big guys, small girls" aesthetic and yet who also like the gameplay, RP, or community of the game.

Now, personally, I'm not sure I agree with that; if the artistic vision of the game is that lalafell are the only androgynous race (and I sure can't tell them apart sometimes Tongue

), then I don't think the designers should change that to accommodate people. However, since we've already seen that the devs make design choices for reasons other than an artistic vision, one could make an argument for simply adding more creation options, which I think everyone would enjoy...

...at least until the technical limitations of the PS3 come into play. I hate to keep harping on that, but it annoys me that we PC users, as usual, get the shaft due to sharing code with consoles. :/

Harmonixer · **04-29-2015, 11:56 AM**

(04-29-2015, 11:19 AM)Zhavi Wrote:
(04-29-2015, 11:11 AM)FreelanceWizard Wrote: [quote='Hyrist' pid='176980' dateline='1430319853']
stuff

My hope is that if Heavensward does really really well maybe the next xpac will have more breathing room in terms of art direction. Though, really, I suppose it might be grounds for a "keep doing what you're doing" mindset.

Argh. It's frustrating to me because I picked catgirl because I wanted a runty street kid. And I like cats. And it was something that was very different from what I normally played: tall, muscular badasses (WoW troll 4 lyfe!). I was inches away from picking a roe, but in the end they were too big for what I wanted to do with this character. It pains me that Zhi is part of the problem. And now with the xaela being nomads, I'm being hooked for them.

I think I'm gonna have to make a highlander or roe to even out my character creation karma. :<

See, in my last post I said mean things but I don't want it to be remembered as something so cut and dry.

I don't want people to feel guilty for playing what they like. I want people to realize it's okay to like something and it's especially okay to continue to do so. Don't try to sabotage something for yourself in favor of change or variance in something you wouldn't have played anyway.

You had something in mind, you went with it. It's something I say allllll the time:

"It's about the presentation."

Plenty of people here have pretty 'typical' characters. I'm pretty sure even I contribute to this. But it's always coming down to presentation. Be it color schemes or slight differences in height, whatever. It's about how you present it to others. It's that whole thing where you try to be unique and you end up like everyone else in the process.

So what? We're all pink on the inside and we have a whole bunch of other shit that overlaps.

Go on, rock a cat. From what I've gathered you have something that works well with you and is well accepted by others. Don't feel guilty for it. Just present it differently and embrace what you love.

Desu Nee · **04-29-2015, 11:59 AM**

(04-29-2015, 11:54 AM)FreelanceWizard Wrote: If I may -- and please correct me if I'm wrong -- I think the argument is that XIV should have more character options and models that are accommodating for those whose preferences or real life circumstances are not compatible with the "big guys, small girls" aesthetic and yet who also like the gameplay, RP, or community of the game.

Now, personally, I'm not sure I agree with that; if the artistic vision of the game is that lalafell are the only androgynous race (and I sure can't tell them apart sometimes ), then I don't think the designers should change that to accommodate people. However, since we've already seen that the devs make design choices for reasons other than an artistic vision, one could make an argument for simply adding more creation options, which I think everyone would enjoy...

...at least until the technical limitations of the PS3 come into play. I hate to keep harping on that, but it annoys me that we PC users, as usual, get the shaft due to sharing code with consoles. :/

Albeit that's an unfortunate truth, I don't mind so heavily. Not everyone can pay a PS4 as of now, or like to play on Computers. I don't mind the fact many options you have to select because I absolutely blows at using sliders to change a character face. Dear god, I should show my Skyrim characters someday.

Max · **04-29-2015, 11:59 AM**

(04-29-2015, 10:46 AM)Zyrusticae Wrote: But since the point was brought up already: Phantasy Star Online 2. It's one of SEGA's most successful franchise operations in ages, and it's purely because of the character creation and the dress-up. Believe it or not, there is a huge potential revenue stream there and I do not believe SE is sufficiently tapping into that as of now. Not that that matters to me. I just want better character creation purely for selfish reasons.

Waifu Simulator-- I mean, Phantasy Star Online 2 and FFXIV are two very different games. Like you mentioned, the main draw of PSO2 is their character customization, and they dedicate a lot of time bringing in new outfits, hairstyles, and accessories every couple weeks. It's how they make the bulk of their money, being FTP and all.

FFXIV doesn't need to take notes from PSO2 because PSO2's target audience is completely different. I'd also hate to see improved mechanics and bug-fixes not prioritized over money grab vanity.

LiadansWhisper · **04-29-2015, 12:00 PM**

(04-29-2015, 11:41 AM)Zyrusticae Wrote: (edit: you are being very mean right now, and I think I am going to cry. seriously cry. I am not even joking. good job, you're really something.)

I feel like you're going for the emotionally manipulative angle at this point. Â What's coming across is, "You said something I don't like. Â Omg, you are so mean you made me cry. Â You're a bad person and should feel ashamed of yourself."

People are gonna disagree with you. Â I haven't seen anything Warren's said that was overtly malicious or hostile, especially not in the last few posts you've quoted. Â If you can't handle people disagreeing with you, it's probably unwise for you to engage in any sort of debate with other people. Â Because opinions are like assholes - everyone has one.

Zhavi · **04-29-2015, 12:05 PM**

(04-29-2015, 11:56 AM)Harmonixer Wrote: See, in my last post I said mean things but I don't want it to be remembered as something so cut and dry.

I don't want people to feel guilty for playing what they like. I want people to realize it's okay to like something and it's especially okay to continue to do so. Don't try to sabotage something for yourself in favor of change or variance in something you wouldn't have played anyway.

You had something in mind, you went with it. It's something I say allllll the time:

"It's about the presentation."

Plenty of people here have pretty 'typical' characters. I'm pretty sure even I contribute to this. But it's always coming down to presentation. Be it color schemes or slight differences in height, whatever. It's about how you present it to others. It's that whole thing where you try to be unique and you end up like everyone else in the process.

So what? We're all pink on the inside and we have a whole bunch of other shit that overlaps.

Go on, rock a cat. From what I've gathered you have something that works well with you and is well accepted by others. Don't feel guilty for it. Just present it differently and embrace what you love.

But that's the rub -- for the Au Ra I wanted something tough and rugged. I don't normally play cutesy or small, I normally play big buff warrior women who can handle themselves, or at the least are old and washed up but can still bring it when needed. The idea that the proliferation of miqo'te are discouraging the devs from creating more races like roes or highlanders makes me cringe, because that's what I typically enjoy playing. That's what I would have preferred for my Au Ra.

Zhi works, for what I made her for.

But that's not the only type of character I want to play, aesthetically.

LiadansWhisper · **04-29-2015, 12:07 PM**

(04-29-2015, 12:05 PM)Zhavi Wrote: But that's the rub -- for the Au Ra I wanted something tough and rugged. Â I don't normally play cutesy or small, I normally play big buff warrior women who can handle themselves, or at the least are old and washed up but can still bring it when needed. Â The idea that the proliferation of miqo'te are discouraging the devs from creating more races like roes or highlanders makes me cringe, because that's what I typically enjoy playing. Â That's what I would have preferred for my Au Ra.

Zhi works, for what I made her for.

But that's not the only type of character I want to play, aesthetically.

It's really hard to play rugged when no one has hair on their chest or legs.

I am just saying.Â Bouncy

Harmonixer · **04-29-2015, 12:11 PM**

(04-29-2015, 12:05 PM)Zhavi Wrote:
(04-29-2015, 11:56 AM)Harmonixer Wrote: See, in my last post I said mean things but I don't want it to be remembered as something so cut and dry.

I don't want people to feel guilty for playing what they like. I want people to realize it's okay to like something and it's especially okay to continue to do so. Don't try to sabotage something for yourself in favor of change or variance in something you wouldn't have played anyway.

You had something in mind, you went with it. It's something I say allllll the time:

"It's about the presentation."

Plenty of people here have pretty 'typical' characters. I'm pretty sure even I contribute to this. But it's always coming down to presentation. Be it color schemes or slight differences in height, whatever. It's about how you present it to others. It's that whole thing where you try to be unique and you end up like everyone else in the process.

So what? We're all pink on the inside and we have a whole bunch of other shit that overlaps.

Go on, rock a cat. From what I've gathered you have something that works well with you and is well accepted by others. Don't feel guilty for it. Just present it differently and embrace what you love.

But that's the rub -- for the Au Ra I wanted something tough and rugged. I don't normally play cutesy or small, I normally play big buff warrior women who can handle themselves, or at the least are old and washed up but can still bring it when needed. The idea that the proliferation of miqo'te are discouraging the devs from creating more races like roes or highlanders makes me cringe, because that's what I typically enjoy playing. That's what I would have preferred for my Au Ra.

Zhi works, for what I made her for.

But that's not the only type of character I want to play, aesthetically.

Ahh, I see now.

Now, that makes me wonder... How the Au Ra age. For males, there's the one face that suggests some age. The placement of the horns and nose, eyes etc. For females, there flat out isn't one.

I think you'd have to do something with the facepaint. But yes, you are flat out lacking the options to depict such a thing for females. In that regard, I understand.

Hmm, now I'm wondering if they age like other races. So much lore stuff that needs to be explained to me. I mean, their demon-like right? Guuaaah. I'm going to be thinking about this all day.

Zyrusticae · **04-29-2015, 12:11 PM**

(04-29-2015, 11:45 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: I don't understand your argument. You're pointing out that that other game has so much better (for you, even) character allowances, yet you're here trying to escape. I'm missing something here.

"These cookies would be so much better if they were brownies."

I see that you don't understand at all. Of course you don't, as your position is fundamentally different from my own.

Let me put it this way: I play video games to help me escape from the reality where I would be ridiculed and put down were I to ever attempt to express myself in any way outside of what is expected of me (note: I live in Texas). Telling me that trying to do this in a video game is the wrong thing to do is akin to telling me that I am not allowed to exist in any form outside of what is given to me.

For loads of people, genderqueer folk don't even exist. Every day I am reminded of that fact, especially when I try to make characters like me. It all adds up. It gets tiresome.

That is why I am so passionate about this to begin with.

(04-29-2015, 12:00 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: I feel like you're going for the emotionally manipulative angle at this point. Â What's coming across is, "You said something I don't like. Â Omg, you are so mean you made me cry. Â You're a bad person and should feel ashamed of yourself."

People are gonna disagree with you. Â I haven't seen anything Warren's said that was overtly malicious or hostile, especially not in the last few posts you've quoted. Â If you can't handle people disagreeing with you, it's probably unwise for you to engage in any sort of debate with other people. Â Because opinions are like assholes - everyone has one.

See above.

This is an emotionally charged issue for me. I want to exist, I don't want to kill my individual self in order to conform. If you think there is nothing malicious in refusing my right to express myself in virtual worlds, we are approaching this from fundamentally different positions. And that's okay, but you have to understand why I feel the way I do.

And for the record, I did cry. It was helpful and cathartic. I should probably do it more often instead of raging.

Cato · **04-29-2015, 12:16 PM**

(04-29-2015, 12:07 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote:
(04-29-2015, 12:05 PM)Zhavi Wrote: But that's the rub -- for the Au Ra I wanted something tough and rugged. Â I don't normally play cutesy or small, I normally play big buff warrior women who can handle themselves, or at the least are old and washed up but can still bring it when needed. Â The idea that the proliferation of miqo'te are discouraging the devs from creating more races like roes or highlanders makes me cringe, because that's what I typically enjoy playing. Â That's what I would have preferred for my Au Ra.

Zhi works, for what I made her for.

But that's not the only type of character I want to play, aesthetically.

It's really hard to play rugged when no one has hair on their chest or legs.

I am just saying.Â

One of the reasons as to why I stopped playing a Highlander, personally. I figured I might as well go down the 'classically handsome' route instead since it's just as satisfying to me as 'rough and rugged' but it's actually possible to reflect it in-game.

LiadansWhisper · **04-29-2015, 12:16 PM**

(04-29-2015, 12:11 PM)Zyrusticae Wrote:
(04-29-2015, 11:45 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: I don't understand your argument. You're pointing out that that other game has so much better (for you, even) character allowances, yet you're here trying to escape. I'm missing something here.

"These cookies would be so much better if they were brownies."
I see that you don't understand at all. Of course you don't, as your position is fundamentally different from my own.

Let me put it this way: I play video games to help me escape from the reality where I would be ridiculed and put down were I to ever attempt to express myself in any way outside of what is expected of me (note: I live in Texas). Telling me that trying to do this in a video game is the wrong thing to do is akin to telling me that I am not allowed to exist in any form outside of what is given to me.

For loads of people, genderqueer folk don't even exist. Every day I am reminded of that fact, especially when I try to make characters like me. It all adds up. It gets tiresome.

That is why I am so passionate about this to begin with.

(04-29-2015, 12:00 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: I feel like you're going for the emotionally manipulative angle at this point. Â What's coming across is, "You said something I don't like. Â Omg, you are so mean you made me cry. Â You're a bad person and should feel ashamed of yourself."

People are gonna disagree with you. Â I haven't seen anything Warren's said that was overtly malicious or hostile, especially not in the last few posts you've quoted. Â If you can't handle people disagreeing with you, it's probably unwise for you to engage in any sort of debate with other people. Â Because opinions are like assholes - everyone has one.
See above.

This is an emotionally charged issue for me. I want to exist, I don't want to kill my individual self in order to conform. If you think there is nothing malicious in refusing my right to express myself in virtual worlds, we are approaching this from fundamentally different positions. And that's okay, but you have to understand why I feel the way I do.

And for the record, I did cry. It was helpful and cathartic. I should probably do it more often instead of raging.

This is still all reading as emotional manipulation to me.

If someone disagreeing with you is so emotionally upsetting that you feel the need to cry or feel that your very identity is being threatened, then I really do think it is unwise for you to engage in any sort of debate with others. Â Because they're going to disagree with you. Â And then you will get upset and/or feel your identity is being threatened by people on the internet.

LiadansWhisper · **04-29-2015, 12:18 PM**

(04-29-2015, 12:16 PM)Graeham Ridgefield Wrote: One of the reasons as to why I stopped playing a Highlander, personally. I figured I might as well go down the 'classically handsome' route instead since it's just as satisfying to me as 'rough and rugged' but it's actually possible to reflect it in-game.

It's truly a crime. Â More hair options would be amazing.

I'm still trying to figure out why we wear sandals everywhere Â tho. Â xD

Zhavi · **04-29-2015, 12:18 PM**

(04-29-2015, 12:07 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote:
(04-29-2015, 12:05 PM)Zhavi Wrote: But that's the rub -- for the Au Ra I wanted something tough and rugged. Â I don't normally play cutesy or small, I normally play big buff warrior women who can handle themselves, or at the least are old and washed up but can still bring it when needed. Â The idea that the proliferation of miqo'te are discouraging the devs from creating more races like roes or highlanders makes me cringe, because that's what I typically enjoy playing. Â That's what I would have preferred for my Au Ra.

Zhi works, for what I made her for.

But that's not the only type of character I want to play, aesthetically.

It's really hard to play rugged when no one has hair on their chest or legs.

I am just saying.Â

Hahahaha.

Okay, for an example, the troll female faces (in WoW) besides the pretty one (pre the graphics update, I don't know what they look like now), could easily qualify for rugged.

Weathered, lined, rough-around-the-edges, a little fierce: you can achieve this with roe to a degree, but with the Au Ra, with the horns and the scales -- I was just hoping for something taller and meaner and maybe a little less of the typical beauty.

(I'm starting to realize from these discussions that what I want to see is a very narrow aesthetic -- but, I dunno, I'd be okay with fifth face options for races that go a little outside of the box for that race, which lets the devs have their target audience while still filling for the niche lovers)

Hyrist · **04-29-2015, 12:19 PM**

(04-29-2015, 11:11 AM)FreelanceWizard Wrote: Oh, I don't disagree. The video game space is by definition very conservative, which means not taking a risk on an artistic decision when you could make a finance-driven one. SE has a bit more freedom than, say, someone being published by EA, but ultimately they're still beholden to their shareholders. If Heavensward doesn't produce a sub bump -- even if it retains the current player base -- it's not going to look good, despite XIV being a wild, runaway success for the company. The artistic choices are the ones you're more likely to see in indie gaming.

That said, I'm still unhappy about it.

Now, here's the ringer.

Are you unhappy about it on principle, or because the result wound up being something that does not appeal to you? Granted, it's ok to be both.

I've become jaded enough to accept the business practices, and just make my own subjective opinion on the issue.

I don't mind the height differences, that vast of a difference is unique among the races regardless of the corporate drive around it. So while money driven, it can make for good variety traits in the race, comparatively for the others.

So long as the result is something positive (Read: Something I like.) The method of getting there gets a bit muted - at least in this particular case. While there's always encouragement for the ideal all around, method and results, sometimes, it's more worth it to stop worrying and enjoy the sauce(er).

In this results Au Ra isn't designed to appeal to set particular tastes, and that's ok. Sometimes we forget that while we should work to for a broader appeal and acceptance, it shouldn't come at the outright neglect of more popular views. Sometimes, you need to throw the typical a bone once in a while too.

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Character Creation: Assessment and Critique

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes