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Cailean Lockwood · **05-07-2015, 02:56 PM**

To be honest, I do think it's a rather douchebag move by Sqeenix to make such restrictions on the class lore.

"You can be a White Mage, but ONLY if you a Padjal (which you can't be) or if you are a Warrior of Light (which you can't be either)."

"You can be a Dragoon, but ONLY if you are an Elezen (or Hyur?) from Ishgard."

"You can be a Black Mage, but EVERYONE will hate you, because it is illegal."

"You can be a Dark Knight, but ONLY if you are one of the 12 that exists, and that means you HAVE to be that singular Warrior of Light chosen to be (which you cannot be)."

So yeah, I would rather bend the lore a bit and work around it rather than being an elitist about it, because as mentioned earlier, it is just too restrictive.

Warren Castille · **05-07-2015, 02:57 PM**

I made that 12 Dark Knight thing up.

SunTzu7 · **05-07-2015, 02:57 PM**

... They killed what? Bastards. I'll hound them to the gates of hell and into perditions flames before I give my head canon up!

Nah but seriously, I'd work around it. 99% of my RP is improv anyway.

Cailean Lockwood · **05-07-2015, 03:00 PM**

(05-07-2015, 02:57 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: I made that 12 Dark Knight thing up.

Oh, well, there you go. XD
I actually thought it t be true. Damn you for messing with my head! XD

But yeah, my point still stands though.

Warren Castille · **05-07-2015, 03:01 PM**

(05-07-2015, 03:00 PM)theincubuslord Wrote:
(05-07-2015, 02:57 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: I made that 12 Dark Knight thing up.

Oh, well, there you go. XD
I actually thought it t be true. Damn you for messing with my head! XD

Well, I made it up per se but my uncle works for Nintendo and he told me...

Gone. · **05-07-2015, 03:01 PM**

This is one of those things I'm just really not concerned with. If Square Enix is willing to retcon their own retcons, then I don't think the onus really lies on the player base.

Besides, multiple canons can coexist. DC comics has been doing it for decades and it seems to be working out for them alright.

FreelanceWizard · **05-07-2015, 03:11 PM**

(05-07-2015, 02:56 PM)theincubuslord Wrote: To be honest, I do think it's a rather douchebag move by Sqeenix to make such restrictions on the class lore.

"You can be a White Mage, but ONLY if you a Padjal (which you can't be) or if you are a Warrior of Light (which you can't be either)."

"You can be a Dragoon, but ONLY if you are an Elezen (or Hyur?) from Ishgard."

"You can be a Black Mage, but EVERYONE will hate you, because it is illegal."

"You can be a Dark Knight, but ONLY if you are one of the 12 that exists, and that means you HAVE to be that singular Warrior of Light chosen to be (which you cannot be)."

So yeah, I would rather bend the lore a bit and work around it rather than being an elitist about it, because as mentioned earlier, it is just too restrictive.

By SE's own admission at the lore panel, one of the reasons they write the job stories that way is to give the player character that Chosen One feel. It's an unfortunate consequence of the desire of devs to make people feel special -- which is great in a single-player game and not so much in an MMO.

To me, at least, lore-bending is reasonable to achieve your character concept, so long as it's done carefully and with a solid, plausible narrative justification. Part of that is not trying to do too much and part of that is also staying within the lore as much as you can. For instance, I can see a talented adventuring conjurer coming across an Allagan device that teaches them how to use Succor, as it sees their pure heart. I can't see an avowed warrior who destroys and pillages suddenly waking up one day as the chosen of the elementals. Smile

It's a bit of a different circumstance, though, if SE comes right out and says, "X is not possible, period" or "X must and is always done this particular way." Then again, that's quite rare; even in the WHM case, the lore panel offered a pair of outs ("There are other ways of getting white magic. There are other groups trying to revive white magic using nefarious means.").

LiadansWhisper · **05-07-2015, 03:13 PM**

(05-07-2015, 03:11 PM)FreelanceWizard Wrote: It's a bit of a different circumstance, though, if SE comes right out and says, "X is not possible, period" or "X must and is always done this particular way." Then again, that's quite rare; even in the WHM case, the lore panel offered a pair of outs ("There are other ways of getting white magic. There are other groups trying to revive white magic using nefarious means.").

That's true. Â I kind of wanted to point out that I do think SE regrets making WHM such a rigid "there can be only one" questline. Â I don't think they'll do that in the future, as they got so much pushback on it (especially considering how open the original questline was, in terms of who could become a White Mage).

Khadan · **05-07-2015, 03:26 PM**

I dunno, I find it to be far more impressive for someone to play within the boundaries of the given sandbox than intentionally breaking the walls of it to suit a desired narrative. True creativity is shaping your works with the tools that you're given; not outsourcing the product to China =P

That said, there's nothing wrong with some creative liberties here and there. I'm pretty sure every writer ever has done that.

Melkire · **05-07-2015, 03:29 PM**

Quite a few of us have had this happen already, what with Limsa RP leading to world-building and vice-versa long before 2.4 dropped the Rogues' Guild and associated lore on us. Not wholly unexpected, to have our various headcannons kicked out from under us, and - as far as dealing with it goes - it was something we'd knowingly signed up for. That said, it was still a kick in the gut. Some folks retconned, some folks adjusted backstories and current RP, some folks handwaved, some folks ignored it completely, some are still utterly clueless about the contradictions that now exist between lore and their own RP since they haven't done the Rogue class quests yet... I think if you poll people who roleplay(ed) Lominsan characters or characters who spend a lot of time in Limsa, you'd get back a wide variety of approaches that run the whole gamut.

Verad · **05-07-2015, 03:37 PM**

(05-07-2015, 03:26 PM)Kayllen Wrote: I dunno, I find it to be far more impressive for someone to play within the boundaries of the given sandbox than intentionally breaking the walls of it to suit a desired narrative. True creativity is shaping your works with the tools that you're given; not outsourcing the product to China =P

That said, there's nothing wrong with some creative liberties here and there. I'm pretty sure every writer ever has done that.

You discover that SE declares Dragoon fighting styles to be highly proscribed, and they have nothing to do with the Circle of Blades. It would be considered a terrible thing, in-setting, for such a character to have such a style, by lore, and no Temple Knight would ever use it. How do you retcon it?

Aya · **05-07-2015, 03:42 PM**

(05-07-2015, 03:29 PM)Melkire Wrote: Quite a few of us have had this happen already, what with Limsa RP leading to world-building and vice-versa long before 2.4 dropped the Rogues' Guild and associated lore on us. Not wholly unexpected, to have our various headcannons kicked out from under us, and - as far as dealing with it goes - it was something we'd knowingly signed up for. That said, it was still a kick in the gut. Some folks retconned, some folks adjusted backstories and current RP, some folks handwaved, some folks ignored it completely, some are still utterly clueless about the contradictions that now exist between lore and their own RP since they haven't done the Rogue class quests yet... I think if you poll people who roleplay(ed) Lominsan characters or characters who spend a lot of time in Limsa, you'd get back a wide variety of approaches that run the whole gamut.

Its really silly too.Â I haven't seen all of the rogue quest lore so far, but what I have seen was very difficult to square with the concept of a pirate city.Â I don't really get what they were going for, except that they want all of the class guilds to be good guys.

Fox · **05-07-2015, 03:50 PM**

Star Wars and subsequently SWTOR recently went through this with Legends. It caused a lot of discomfort for people in SWTOR and even out of game. Ultimately it caused arguments and concerns within the community. I still think there are some discussions that happen especially after celebration 7.

It all comes down I think with the severity of the change. If it's so incredibly ridiculous like some things WoW has done, or contridictory and confusing I ignore it or just leave the subject vague. If it's something that makes sense, I will adjust where I see fit.

Personally in the case of canon change for SW I just identify as a Legacy rper. If for example they change chiss to be republic aligned, I would not change my character as it would completely obliterate the character. It is that ingrained. But this also comes from a change of the lore more than headcanon.

Tldr; it depends on what changes are made and I will adjust accordingly.

Khadan · **05-07-2015, 03:50 PM**

(05-07-2015, 03:37 PM)Verad Wrote:
(05-07-2015, 03:26 PM)Kayllen Wrote: I dunno, I find it to be far more impressive for someone to play within the boundaries of the given sandbox than intentionally breaking the walls of it to suit a desired narrative. True creativity is shaping your works with the tools that you're given; not outsourcing the product to China =P

That said, there's nothing wrong with some creative liberties here and there. I'm pretty sure every writer ever has done that.

You discover that SE declares Dragoon fighting styles to be highly proscribed, and they have nothing to do with the Circle of Blades. It would be considered a terrible thing, in-setting, for such a character to have such a style, by lore, and no Temple Knight would ever use it. How do you retcon it?

I would change it to whatever the proscribed style of fighting is in the lore, since, by the given example such a proscribed style of fighting would be highly detailed in said content drop.Â

Adding to that it can simply be something passed down from father to son, too. It doesn't really change anything to do with the character and the back story is easily tailored to accommodate such a change.

I'd also be pretty surprised if SE ever did such a thing since 'fighting styles' in FF14 are almost all singularly based on the weapon rather than how that weapon is used. It's an extremely unlikely hypothetical but there you have it.

Also I see you perused my character wiki which makes you like... the fifth person in the world to do so lol. A couple points of clarification: the Circle of Blades was only taught in that group of Temple Knights as a means of perfect defense. Said group of Temple Knights were all wiped out due to a political betrayal. It is possible for the fighting style to be used with weapons other than sword-and-shield as it is a mindset more than a fighting style though it does favor the sword by virtue of its original design (La Destreza Spanish Fencing). Lastly there are only likely a small handful of surviving practitioners and only one of those is confirmed (Kayllen).

Regardless SE coming in to say "the TK's only fight THIS way and NO OTHER WAY", is not going to be a problem as I've taken all that into account beforehand. =)

Verad · **05-07-2015, 03:54 PM**

(05-07-2015, 03:50 PM)Kayllen Wrote: I would change it to whatever the proscribed style of fighting is in the lore, since, by the given example such a proscribed style of fighting would be highly detailed in said content drop.Â

Adding to that it can simply be something passed down from father to son, too. It doesn't really change anything to do with the character and the back story is easily tailored to accommodate such a change.

I'd also be pretty surprised if SE ever did such a thing since 'fighting styles' in FF14 are almost all singularly based on the weapon rather than how that weapon is used. It's an extremely unlikely hypothetical but there you have it.

Also I see you perused my character wiki which makes you like... the fifth person in the world to do so lol. A couple points of clarification: the Circle of Blades was only taught in that group of Temple Knights as a means of perfect defense. Said group of Temple Knights were all wiped out due to a political betrayal. It is possible for the fighting style to be used with weapons other than sword-and-shield as it is a mindset more than a fighting style though it does favor the sword by virtue of its original design (La Destreza Spanish Fencing). Lastly there are only likely a small handful of surviving practitioners and only one of those is confirmed (Kayllen).

Regardless SE coming in to say "the TK's only fight THIS way and NO OTHER WAY, is not going to be a problem as I've taken all that into account beforehand. =)

I have no interest in whether or not SE will or will not actually do this. The question is a hypothetical. Plausibility rarely matters.

That said, while you say it's a fighting style, your wiki also very clearly explains how it has a definite impact on a student's psychology, to the extent that you explicitly state its students have to learn notÂ to think that way. If it turns out that the fighting style of the Temple Knights is one which similarly influences psychology to the extent that they are all, say, completely sincere and openly emotional in contrast to the absence of emotion that your current style describes, will Kayllen's psychology change to follow suit?

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Disaster! SE just ruined your headcanon!

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes