RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes

SicketySix · **10-08-2015, 04:52 PM**

(10-08-2015, 04:41 PM)Faye Wrote:
(10-08-2015, 04:39 PM)Garalona Wrote: Two Miqo'te falling in love and deciding to become monogamous, or one Miqo'te deciding they have a one true love and damn the consequences, is hardly comparable to "we're actually Titan and Shiva and we're married" in terms of lore fuckery.

Dang, y'all, please chill.

Most people have been supportive, though...? I'm not really sure who needs to chill. I don't get why people see arguments where there are none.

I think we're referring to the few "its against the lore" related replies. Thumbsup

Faye · **10-08-2015, 04:57 PM**

(10-08-2015, 04:52 PM)SicketySix Wrote:
(10-08-2015, 04:41 PM)Faye Wrote:
(10-08-2015, 04:39 PM)Garalona Wrote: Two Miqo'te falling in love and deciding to become monogamous, or one Miqo'te deciding they have a one true love and damn the consequences, is hardly comparable to "we're actually Titan and Shiva and we're married" in terms of lore fuckery.

Dang, y'all, please chill.

Most people have been supportive, though...? I'm not really sure who needs to chill. I don't get why people see arguments where there are none.

I think we're referring to the few "its against the lore" related replies.

Could you point out those few, then? Because I seem to be failing to find them.

SicketySix · **10-08-2015, 05:02 PM**

(10-08-2015, 01:07 PM)Mia Moui Wrote:
(10-08-2015, 11:29 AM)Teadrinker Wrote:
(10-08-2015, 11:11 AM)Mia Moui Wrote: I've been thinking about this a little more and there's a biological situation with Miqo'te that's hard to ignore. Â Unless a female Miqo'te is willing to become monogamous and have mixed-race children (something the lore suggests is very frowned upon), Miqo'te would rapidly become extinct if the precious few males that existed chose to become monogamous.Â

I feel like for both Seekers and Keepers, regardless of how they feel about culture or how integrated they've become, the issue of reproduction and the very limited stock of males would need to be addressed. Â Obviously, one only needs a single male to propagate an entire species. Â Even so, I think that Miqo'te females could be monogamous if they want, but Miqo'te males wouldn't be encouraged to be so. Â

If the birthrate is something like 20 or 30 to 1, monogamy would quickly exhaust the supply of Miqo'te males. Â If something like that were happening in our society, monogamy would seem like an extremely selfish choice, perhaps a choice that's simply not allowed.

But if relationship/romantic monogamy was what was being prized, then it may not matter. Â Reproduction would be more akin to duty, not something that invites romance or long-term relationships. Â This way a Hyur and a Miqo'te could be eternally bonded but if they wanted children, the female would make it known (however Seekers or Keepers let males know they're ready for that). Â This avoids the problem of mixed race offspring (which again, the lore suggests his highly frowned upon).

I know that lots of people play Miqo'te as though they are Hyur with cat ears but the cold fact of their reproductive biology suggests that reproductive monogamy simply isn't feasible. Â I imagine that such a problem would invite all kinds of exciting drama in an otherwise emotionally/romantic monogamous relationship.

The simplest solution is polyamory but that word suggests love and I think that's a little strong. Â Reproductive surrogate might be closer to the role a male Miqo'te would have to play, regardless of their emotional/romantic status.

Mathematically, you are correct.

People aren't going to play that way though and trying to force them to is not a battle you want to undertake.

Since it's been suggested mixed breeds are now possible, even really weird ones that we have UTTERLY no visual base for like Miqo/Aura or Roe/Lala ... It's pretty much taken these kinds of arguments out behind the shed.

Personally, I roll my eyes a little when I see really exotic pregnant couples wandering around but it's not lorebreaking. It makes a whole lot more sense for the females of both tribes to be city cats and not males but that's not gonna stop you from seeing Ul'dah populated with Nunhs.

It's just the way it is. Can't change it and you're not gonna have much fun if you focus on it too much.

Unless the fun comes from trying to stick within the lore as much as possible and choosing to play with others who feel similarly.Â

This isn't about trying to control the RP of others. Â I can't stop people from playing as though they are vampire zombie aliens from another dimension. Â I just wouldn't be likely to play with them, at least not on a IC basis. Â I'll dungeon and raid with anyone, anytime.

But having lurked here for weeks before starting to play the game, it seems like every time something like this comes up, others get on to defend their right or anyone else's right to play how they want. Â The problem is, no one is telling them not to play a certain way. Â It's usually someone asking about how or if one thing can or cannot be done within the lore of the world. Â It's up to the player to decide if they'll go along with it or not. Â No one is taking away someone's freedom or suggesting or demanding that other players should change.

I like the lore. Â I like to play within the confines because it makes me become more creative to do what I want within the limitations. My entire commentary was about what would almost certainly have to be the case if someone WAS going to stick to the lore. Â If a player doesn't want to, go ahead and be the Eorzean version of Batman, I don't care.

I play this game because I like the world, the lore, the characters, the story. Â I like to weave my own story along with it. Â I don't start with my character first. Â I start with the world and try to think about what influence it would have on my character. Then I tell my character's story with those influences in mind. Â Just like real life, my characters are bound to their world, it's history and their own past.

I'm not and would never ask anyone else to do the same.

(10-08-2015, 04:57 PM)Faye Wrote:
(10-08-2015, 04:52 PM)SicketySix Wrote:
(10-08-2015, 04:41 PM)Faye Wrote:
(10-08-2015, 04:39 PM)Garalona Wrote: Two Miqo'te falling in love and deciding to become monogamous, or one Miqo'te deciding they have a one true love and damn the consequences, is hardly comparable to "we're actually Titan and Shiva and we're married" in terms of lore fuckery.

Dang, y'all, please chill.

Most people have been supportive, though...? I'm not really sure who needs to chill. I don't get why people see arguments where there are none.

I think we're referring to the few "its against the lore" related replies.

Could you point out those few, then? Because I seem to be failing to find them.

This one? Though I will admit I may be misunderstand wrong.

Faye · **10-08-2015, 05:06 PM**

(10-08-2015, 05:02 PM)SicketySix Wrote:
(10-08-2015, 01:07 PM)Mia Moui Wrote:
(10-08-2015, 11:29 AM)Teadrinker Wrote:
(10-08-2015, 11:11 AM)Mia Moui Wrote: I've been thinking about this a little more and there's a biological situation with Miqo'te that's hard to ignore. Â Unless a female Miqo'te is willing to become monogamous and have mixed-race children (something the lore suggests is very frowned upon), Miqo'te would rapidly become extinct if the precious few males that existed chose to become monogamous.Â

I feel like for both Seekers and Keepers, regardless of how they feel about culture or how integrated they've become, the issue of reproduction and the very limited stock of males would need to be addressed. Â Obviously, one only needs a single male to propagate an entire species. Â Even so, I think that Miqo'te females could be monogamous if they want, but Miqo'te males wouldn't be encouraged to be so. Â

If the birthrate is something like 20 or 30 to 1, monogamy would quickly exhaust the supply of Miqo'te males. Â If something like that were happening in our society, monogamy would seem like an extremely selfish choice, perhaps a choice that's simply not allowed.

But if relationship/romantic monogamy was what was being prized, then it may not matter. Â Reproduction would be more akin to duty, not something that invites romance or long-term relationships. Â This way a Hyur and a Miqo'te could be eternally bonded but if they wanted children, the female would make it known (however Seekers or Keepers let males know they're ready for that). Â This avoids the problem of mixed race offspring (which again, the lore suggests his highly frowned upon).

I know that lots of people play Miqo'te as though they are Hyur with cat ears but the cold fact of their reproductive biology suggests that reproductive monogamy simply isn't feasible. Â I imagine that such a problem would invite all kinds of exciting drama in an otherwise emotionally/romantic monogamous relationship.

The simplest solution is polyamory but that word suggests love and I think that's a little strong. Â Reproductive surrogate might be closer to the role a male Miqo'te would have to play, regardless of their emotional/romantic status.

Mathematically, you are correct.

People aren't going to play that way though and trying to force them to is not a battle you want to undertake.

Since it's been suggested mixed breeds are now possible, even really weird ones that we have UTTERLY no visual base for like Miqo/Aura or Roe/Lala ... It's pretty much taken these kinds of arguments out behind the shed.

Personally, I roll my eyes a little when I see really exotic pregnant couples wandering around but it's not lorebreaking. It makes a whole lot more sense for the females of both tribes to be city cats and not males but that's not gonna stop you from seeing Ul'dah populated with Nunhs.

It's just the way it is. Can't change it and you're not gonna have much fun if you focus on it too much.

Unless the fun comes from trying to stick within the lore as much as possible and choosing to play with others who feel similarly.Â

This isn't about trying to control the RP of others. Â I can't stop people from playing as though they are vampire zombie aliens from another dimension. Â I just wouldn't be likely to play with them, at least not on a IC basis. Â I'll dungeon and raid with anyone, anytime.

But having lurked here for weeks before starting to play the game, it seems like every time something like this comes up, others get on to defend their right or anyone else's right to play how they want. Â The problem is, no one is telling them not to play a certain way. Â It's usually someone asking about how or if one thing can or cannot be done within the lore of the world. Â It's up to the player to decide if they'll go along with it or not. Â No one is taking away someone's freedom or suggesting or demanding that other players should change.

I like the lore. Â I like to play within the confines because it makes me become more creative to do what I want within the limitations. My entire commentary was about what would almost certainly have to be the case if someone WAS going to stick to the lore. Â If a player doesn't want to, go ahead and be the Eorzean version of Batman, I don't care.

I play this game because I like the world, the lore, the characters, the story. Â I like to weave my own story along with it. Â I don't start with my character first. Â I start with the world and try to think about what influence it would have on my character. Then I tell my character's story with those influences in mind. Â Just like real life, my characters are bound to their world, it's history and their own past.

I'm not and would never ask anyone else to do the same.

(10-08-2015, 04:57 PM)Faye Wrote:
(10-08-2015, 04:52 PM)SicketySix Wrote:
(10-08-2015, 04:41 PM)Faye Wrote:
(10-08-2015, 04:39 PM)Garalona Wrote: Two Miqo'te falling in love and deciding to become monogamous, or one Miqo'te deciding they have a one true love and damn the consequences, is hardly comparable to "we're actually Titan and Shiva and we're married" in terms of lore fuckery.

Dang, y'all, please chill.

Most people have been supportive, though...? I'm not really sure who needs to chill. I don't get why people see arguments where there are none.

I think we're referring to the few "its against the lore" related replies.

Could you point out those few, then? Because I seem to be failing to find them.

This one? Though I will admit I may be misunderstand wrong.

Mia is saying that it's against the lore, certainly. And if you look at the "lore" to be the norm for the canon world, rather than the possibilities for the canon world, it is. But she also explicitly stated she's not going to tell someone else how to RP, or that she's not going to expect or force someone to conform to her beliefs about the lore. I don't really see anything unreasonable or rude in that.

Chris Ganale · **10-08-2015, 05:10 PM**

Post #27, also, could have been neatly summed up as "this topic should never have been made" and runs extremely close to suggesting that the OP is wrong for considering this character angle in the first place.

-Stands ready for the incoming mod thumping, but gods dammit, some anvils need to be dropped-

SicketySix · **10-08-2015, 05:11 PM**

Wall of spam quotes so moving on from that lol

I'm just saying, a monogamous Miqo'te couple is not comparable to batman in Eorzea, or do you remember when that one person wanted to play the fallen daughter of Zeus and we all told her it wouldn't work? There is 2 different things going on here. 1 is bending the lore a little, and the other shatters it.

My point was merely if you are going to judge that little bit of lore bending so harshly, your may as well not even RP in this game.

Faye · **10-08-2015, 05:14 PM**

(10-08-2015, 05:10 PM)Chris Ganale Wrote: Post #27, also, could have been neatly summed up as "this topic should never have been made" and runs extremely close to suggesting that the OP is wrong for considering this character angle in the first place.

-Stands ready for the incoming mod thumping, but gods dammit, some anvils need to be dropped-

Is that wrong, though? If you know you're going against the grain and it could potentially upset people, you could just not do that if it will bother you. And if it won't bother you, then why ask? As she said, the OP and his wife seem set on RPing this. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that; it just seems a little pointless to ask for opinions when they've already made up their minds.

SicketySix · **10-08-2015, 05:16 PM**

(10-08-2015, 05:14 PM)Faye Wrote:
(10-08-2015, 05:10 PM)Chris Ganale Wrote: Post #27, also, could have been neatly summed up as "this topic should never have been made" and runs extremely close to suggesting that the OP is wrong for considering this character angle in the first place.

-Stands ready for the incoming mod thumping, but gods dammit, some anvils need to be dropped-

Is that wrong, though? If you know you're going against the grain and it could potentially upset people, you could just not do that if it will bother you. And if it won't bother you, then why ask? As she said, the OP and his wife seem set on RPing this. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that; it just seems a little pointless to ask for opinions when they've already made up their minds.

I can actually agree with you on the point of asking for advice, when you're planning to do it always. That part never makes much sense to me.

Chris Ganale · **10-08-2015, 05:18 PM**

Maybe some people have crippling self-esteem issues and need to hear "hey, it's okay, you're not a total moron for having that idea". But if that were the case, there's sure as hell better places to seek that kind of validation than this place.

SicketySix · **10-08-2015, 05:19 PM**

(10-08-2015, 05:18 PM)Chris Ganale Wrote: Maybe some people have crippling self-esteem issues and need to hear "hey, it's okay, you're not a total moron for having that idea". But if that were the case, there's sure as hell better places to seek that kind of validation than this place.

Why would you seek opinions on the Internet if you had self esteemed issues. Don't they know we are just waiting to verbally destroy them? Thumbsup

Duroga · **10-08-2015, 05:54 PM**

(10-07-2015, 05:36 PM)Oli! Wrote: I'm assuming because this guy wants to have some nice, clean, no-creepers romantic RP with the wife.

That's pretty much it. I'm not interested in ERP, not interested in anything vaguely resembling it nowadays... and I really like Miquo'te, really don't want to reroll, but I just dislike the idea of polygamy, even in an RP context. I was kind of hoping to get married in-game at some point both for the fun of roleplaying that as well as to ward off any undesired advances before they happen.

I think I'm going to go with the whole idea that I just went off on my own, found a mate and was satisfied with the one and didn't want any others. I'm playing this guy as a cavalier rogue-type character, so the fact that I'm doing things a bit oddly kind of fits.
I really just didn't know how tolerant the community was of someone who plays their character in a non-traditional way. I've played games in the past where people were reallyÂ strict about that. Once again (this keeps happening) the FFXIV community has impressed me with their tolerance and amiability. I'm used to a much less tolerant and more judgmental, impatient community.

Garalona · **10-08-2015, 06:06 PM**

I can't blame you for wanting to test the waters.

Duroga · **10-08-2015, 06:09 PM**

Sry for double-post. It was a mistake. Mods feel free to delete my previous post.

(10-07-2015, 05:36 PM)Oli! Wrote:
(10-07-2015, 05:19 PM)Setoh Aliapoh Wrote: What if your Miqo'te weren't monogamous? What if they were bog-standard Miqo'te.

I'm assuming because this guy wants to have some nice, clean, no-creepers romantic RP with the wife.

That said, do what you want OP. It's not standard, so other tribal players might find it strange IC, but it's not a big issue.

That's pretty much it. I'm not interested in ERP, not interested in anything vaguely resembling it nowadays... and I really like Miquo'te, really don't want to reroll, but I just dislike the idea of polygamy, even in an RP context. I was kind of hoping to get married in-game at some point both for the fun of roleplaying that as well as to ward off any undesired advances before they happen.

(10-08-2015, 05:14 PM)Faye Wrote: Is that wrong, though? If you know you're going against the grain and it could potentially upset people, you could just not do that if it will bother you. And if it won't bother you, then why ask? As she said, the OP and his wife seem set on RPing this. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that; it just seems a little pointless to ask for opinions when they've already made up their minds.

Â Actually, depending on the response I could be persuaded to reroll as a character who traditionally would pursue a monogamous lifestyle. I was also interested in potential ways of explaining why a Miquo'te would be like that without breaking lore. As it is, some people think it breaks lore, some people seem a bit put out that I would do it or even ask about doing it, but it seems most people are rather tolerant of the idea, which is what I was hoping. I figure, as a post above seemed to indicate, that in every group of people there are those that break with tradition. Most humans in the real world are ostensibly monogamous, at least in the western world, but then there are some who break with that... often facing much criticism, even derision. After reading all the helpful responses here (and the less helpful ones) I figure there's no reason a Miquo'te, especially a bit of a rebel type like my guy, might not diverge from his traditions or even from his biological tendencies, in the same manner that real life people in real life cultures sometimes do.

I think I'm going to go with the whole idea that I just went off on my own, found a mate and was satisfied with the one and didn't want any others. I'm playing this guy as a cavalier rogue-type character, so the fact that I'm doing things a bit oddly kind of fits.
I really just didn't know how tolerant the community was of someone who plays their character in a non-traditional way. This isn't even an aspect of my character that is going to be really forward or noticeable most of the time, I'd bet. It's not like I'm going to introduce myself as the monogamous Miquo'te. I just like to be prepared and round off my character in a way that will work out.
I've played games in the past where people wereÂ reallyÂ strict about that. Once again (this keeps happening) the FFXIV community has impressed me with their tolerance and amiability. I'm used to a much less tolerant and more judgmental, impatient community.

Nako Vesh · **10-08-2015, 06:59 PM**

My Miqo'te is currently in a monogamous relationship... with an Elezen. (And they get zero hate for it, which I'm kinda disappointed in. Then again they don't really advertise that they're together, very little PDA, etc.) She was incredibly resistant to it at first, and still finds it strange, still struggles with it, but she's been apart from her tribe for many years now, and is somewhat acclimated to outside traditions. She has a lot of love for her partner, so she wanted to give monogamy a try out of respect for his wishes and customs.

It is a point of struggle though. She worries about the future, especially because she wants children, but doesn't want to bring "Mi'zen" (lol) into the world where they'll likely have a difficult time getting by, even if they could conceive, which I would think would be difficult in the first place. She doesn't like to think about it too much, and is just trying to enjoy the relationship while she can.

Knight Kat · **10-08-2015, 07:59 PM**

If we consider that Eorzea is a huge place with tens of thousands, or even hundreds of thousands of Miqo'te, the Miqo'te player-character base is suddenly a minority.

Because of the low male birth rate, most Miqo'te need to be polyamorous or have frequent short-term monogamous pairings in order to sustain their species (racial) population.

However, even if the whole Miqo'te player-character base were monogamous, they are too small a minority to really harm the species (race) with their actions.

The lore on traditional Miqo'te is clear (what little there is), but there are also plenty of examples of Miqo'te who live according to a city culture, and examples of monogamous Miqo'te in the game. There has even been an example of a Miqo'te who was interested in a Hyur man.

Every culture has deviants, and all the monogamous deviant Miqo'te player-characters won't hurt their species, and are not breaking lore. Not all Miqo'te are of the same mindset, and people don't always do what is best for their species. The proof is humanity itself IRL.

I myself like my characters to feel very different from me because it creates an interesting challenge for RP. So, Kiht is close to a traditional Keeper with a traditional mindset. It infers -nothing- about me IRL aside from the fact I like to play something I'm not.

As for how Kiht reacts to monogamous Miqo'te; she is apathetic. As long as the nontraditional "deviants" don't try to shove their beliefs in her face, she is too busy to be judging anyone's shit. She has other more important shit to do.

Also, all those Nunh who are walking around trying to collect random Miqo'te women into a harem are either looking for ERP, or misunderstanding Miqo'te lore. They should -not- be used as examples of Seeker lore because they are not abiding by Seeker lore. Can people please stop citing the horny cat-dude player-characters as lore?

« Next Oldest \| Next Newest »
Pages (4): « Previous 1 2 3 4 Next »

Monogamous Miqo'te

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes