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Berrod Armstrong · **12-30-2014, 03:24 PM**

I was thinking 'Before the Fall' was the fall of Ishgard itself. I don't actually know at all, but it was fun to think about, given how much of a wreck the gates and the bridge seemed in the Heavensward trailer, and how BUSTED the place looked in the preview images for the city. The 'Fall' not meaning that the place is destroyed and everyone killed, but rather the 'loss of a battle to the enemy'.

That's just one of the ideas floating around in my head! Waiting patiently to see how it actually goes down.

McBeefâ„¢ · **12-30-2014, 03:31 PM**

(12-24-2014, 01:09 PM)Coatleque Wrote: What a lot of people are conveniently forgetting (or perhaps overlooking) is that the refugees outside Ul'dah are NOT Ul'dahn citizens. If they chose to revolt, the Flames have a duty to kill every last one of them to protect national sovereignty.

If SE writes in that the refugees actually carry out a successful revolt on the city, that is not only abysmal writing but speaks volumes about just how effective the Blades, Flames, and Sworn are combined as a fighting force.

I wouldn't agree. Ul'dah has a full time military force. It's likely only a few percent of its population, anything else would be far to expensive. The refugees are a significant problem, so it's quite possible they outnumber the blades and flames (who are also busy fighting off the beastmen and Garleans.)

There might only be a few hundred blades, flames and sultansworn actually /in/ Ul'dah. If someone mobilized and armed a few thousand refugees, it's quite possible they could storm the palace and perform a coup before reinforcements were sent. It's basically what happened during the october revolution in russia.

Kage · **12-30-2014, 03:31 PM**

I'm hoping for a double meaning.

I feel like the fall of Ishgard or places in coerthas might be like "well duh" but I keep seeing the image of the falling goblet and... yeah

McBeefâ„¢ · **12-30-2014, 03:45 PM**

(12-30-2014, 03:31 PM)Kage Wrote: I'm hoping for a double meaning.

I feel like the fall of Ishgard or places in coerthas might be like "well duh" but I keep seeing the image of the falling goblet and... yeah

Maybe someone knocks over a goblet at Nanamo's tea party.

Coatleque · **12-30-2014, 03:45 PM**

(12-30-2014, 03:31 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: It's basically what happened during the october revolution in russia.

Okay, sure, I could see that happening. You do bring up logical points. But I would still have to say it is abysmal writing because through all of these patches there were numerous times where Square Enix could have included some hint that there was true unrest growing among the people (not just the incited riots by the refugees).

I just don't get the feeling that the people are ready or even able to carry out a revolt.

Zyrusticae · **12-30-2014, 03:46 PM**

I'm pretty sure the population of Ul'dah is in the millions, not the thousands.

It's just that gameplay-story segregation means they can't render out an actual city of that size.

Erik Mynhier · **12-30-2014, 03:46 PM**

Not so much a bet as a hope. I hope....

The sultana intends to do away with the monarchy, is injured/killed before she can so the prince can take his throne, to which the Flame General is like "Fuck that". Drop kicks the bastard over the walls of the city and is named the new master of Thanalan.

ALL HAIL RAUBAHN ALDYNN!!!! MASTER OF UL'DAH!!

Kage · **12-30-2014, 03:48 PM**

(12-30-2014, 03:45 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote:
(12-30-2014, 03:31 PM)Kage Wrote: I'm hoping for a double meaning.

I feel like the fall of Ishgard or places in coerthas might be like "well duh" but I keep seeing the image of the falling goblet and... yeah

Maybe someone knocks over a goblet at Nanamo's tea party.

I'm gonna let arturius knock over your alcohol

McBeefâ„¢ · **12-30-2014, 03:50 PM**

(12-30-2014, 03:46 PM)Zyrusticae Wrote: I'm pretty sure the population of Ul'dah is in the millions, not the thousands.

It's just that gameplay-story segregation means they can't render out an actual city of that size.

I don't think it's in the millions. Based on real life examples it's probably between 50,000 to 500,000. Rome had a million people in its heyday, and its like wasn't seen for another 1000 years. Even if you scale it out, anything more than a million people would make no sense by any historical context.

I'd assume Garlemald's capital to have around a million people, but I think the city states would have closer to a few hundred thousand.

To give some context: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_...nity_sizes

I think Constantinople would give a good guideline, it hovered at around 200,000 before taken by the turks.

On second thought even that is even too large, constantinople at the time looked like this:

[Image: xzNPtFKl.jpg]

Ul'dah is probably 40 or 50 thousand at most.

Zyrusticae · **12-30-2014, 04:23 PM**

Remember that Eorzea/Aldenard is an entire continent, one that is the size of Africa judging from the way its climatology is configured (i.e. Ul'dah would be just under the equator while Coerthas is approaching the north pole - though obviously there's still quite a bit of room there due to the Garlean Empire being further north). And remember that this is what Mor Dhona looks like in-universe:
[Image: IFlyNab.jpg]

Obviously, Mor Dhona is nowhere NEAR that size in-game.
That being said, I suppose my estimate of millions is excessive. Split the difference and I think at least a population in the hundreds of thousands would make sense.

Seriphyn · **12-30-2014, 07:51 PM**

(12-30-2014, 03:11 PM)Kage Wrote: As said. in the culinarian quest line you cook something for Lolorito and then you end up cooking a feast for the sultana

Yeah, on that alone...I haven't pick up CUL yet, and if I did, way into 3.5...

Kellach Woods · **12-30-2014, 08:40 PM**

The entire point of that quest is that Lolorito wants to shame the Bismark enough that they close because he's a petty ass motherfucker.

Kage · **12-31-2014, 09:58 AM**

I forgot but here we go with kage speculation

[Image: 7bc01fd47f.png]

What if Part 1 deals with Ul'dah and part 2 is the build and battles dealing with Ishgard?

Gegenji · **12-31-2014, 10:22 AM**

(12-31-2014, 09:58 AM)Kage Wrote: I forgot but here we go with kage speculation

What if Part 1 deals with Ul'dah and part 2 is the build and battles dealing with Ishgard?

Obviously the Gold Saucer causes all the rich folks in Ul'dah to waste all their money gambling and the entire power structure collapses with the massive loss of circulating gil.

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2.5 Before the Fall Main Story Speculation! (2.4 spoilers)

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes