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Aduu Avagnar · **06-08-2015, 12:51 PM**

(06-08-2015, 12:47 PM)Addison Wrote: It sounds as if magic users really got the shaft lore wise.

Would a conjurer with a greater affinity towards healing magic rather than destructive be a viable option to play? WHM was my favorite class in XI, and I like the mechanics thus far in this game, but I am sorely disappointed that my character ICly would be viewed as nuts or people would refuse to RP with me because she's a WHM.

I guess the major question is can a player roleplay a healer at all without a lot of IC grief?

I wouldn't say casters got the shaft at all, the only two with any difficult to RP are Summoner and White Mage, thats 2 out of 7 options, with a 3rd being fairly close to the line.

And yes, Conjurers do often heal, there is one assissting in a pregnancy I believe in Hawthorne Hut, something that only a trained healer would do back in the day, also Conjury itself does lend itself to healing, as well as being a force for nature.

Martiallais · **06-08-2015, 01:01 PM**

(06-08-2015, 12:47 PM)Addison Wrote: I guess the major question is can a player roleplay a healer at all without a lot of IC grief?

I would just remember, at the end of the day you're playing the game for YOUR enjoyment and your character. Everyone has a different view of the pretendy funtimes we enjoy and thankfully as not all our views are the same, there are differing sandboxes that we can all play in without having to resort to kicking sand in each others eyes.

It's just a matter of finding the right sandbox and folks to play in who have the same view as you do.

FreelanceWizard · **06-08-2015, 01:11 PM**

(06-08-2015, 12:47 PM)Addison Wrote: It sounds as if magic users really got the shaft lore wise.

Would a conjurer with a greater affinity towards healing magic rather than destructive be a viable option to play? WHM was my favorite class in XI, and I like the mechanics thus far in this game, but I am sorely disappointed that my character ICly would be viewed as nuts or people would refuse to RP with me because she's a WHM.

I guess the major question is can a player roleplay a healer at all without a lot of IC grief?

Casters pretty much did get the shaft, yes. With the goal of making the player character feel like the One True Hero, the lore devs basically wrote between two and four entire classes -- depending on your point of view on various lore bits -- out of the realm of ready access in RP. Adding insult to injury, for White Mages, they did it in a downright sloppy manner, IMO.

With that said, you can definitely be a healer without being a White Mage or even having access to Succor. Arcanists can readily heal people, as can conjurers. One needn't wield powers that some feel the Sons of Man are unworthy of to be able to heal.

Rahal · **06-08-2015, 02:09 PM**

(06-08-2015, 12:47 PM)Addison Wrote: It sounds as if magic users really got the shaft lore wise.

Would a conjurer with a greater affinity towards healing magic rather than destructive be a viable option to play? WHM was my favorite class in XI, and I like the mechanics thus far in this game, but I am sorely disappointed that my character ICly would be viewed as nuts or people would refuse to RP with me because she's a WHM.

I guess the major question is can a player roleplay a healer at all without a lot of IC grief?

Conjurers don't only heal; the focus to purely healing was a retcon in 2.0. Conjurers are elementalists that are also able heal. While healing is definitely a core aspect of the Conjurer, it is not the only part of them.

Easiest way to think of them is like a D&D Druid, without all of the badass shapeshifting.

Anyway, there's plenty of people that have Conjurers that specialise in healing so I don't see what the problem is with going for a Conjurer that mostly heals peopleÂ Smile

.

As for RPing a WHM, that would be more difficult because the Padjals tightly regulate who they teach. You do have to get creative. Maybe they were exploring Amdapoor and found a Soulstone? Maybe they discovered some ancient tome depicting the techniques? Maybe the character has a deep affinity with the Elementals? Just remember that there will be a LOT of people that would react sceptically to this.

There is also absolutely nothing that is stopping you from Roleplaying as "Magic User that can Heal" without going into the THM/CNJ/ACN stuff Big Grin

. It all depends on how your character can use the aether.

LiadansWhisper · **06-08-2015, 08:28 PM**

(06-08-2015, 12:47 PM)Addison Wrote: It sounds as if magic users really got the shaft lore wise.

Would a conjurer with a greater affinity towards healing magic rather than destructive be a viable option to play? WHM was my favorite class in XI, and I like the mechanics thus far in this game, but I am sorely disappointed that my character ICly would be viewed as nuts or people would refuse to RP with me because she's a WHM.

I guess the major question is can a player roleplay a healer at all without a lot of IC grief?

Conjurers are extremely common, and it's completely viable to play one. Â They are primarily trained in Stillglade Fane in Gridania.

LiadansWhisper · **06-08-2015, 08:30 PM**

(06-08-2015, 02:09 PM)Rahal Wrote: As for RPing a WHM, that would be more difficult because the Padjals tightly regulate who they teach. You do have to get creative. Maybe they were exploring Amdapoor and found a Soulstone? Maybe they discovered some ancient tome depicting the techniques? Maybe the character has a deep affinity with the Elementals? Just remember that there will be a LOT of people that would react sceptically to this.

Two of those three really wouldn't work. Â It isn't the Soulstone that makes a White Mage a White Mage. Â In the questline, the Soulstone is just like the "club membership" that gets you taught by the Padjal. Â And even with a Tome, if you don't have the Elementals' permission, you can't use Succor. Â Full stop. Â They're actively preventing mortals from accessing it, so you actually need their permission.

The third idea has merit, and the restriction is entirely possible to get around with extensive RP and story leading in that direction.

Gone. · **06-08-2015, 08:50 PM**

Not true. If a character can learn the spells either by the teachings of another or from knowledge stored within a soul crystal, they can perform white magic. It has nothing to do with the so-called 'blessing' of the elementals which to my knowledge has never, ever been mentioned in-game.

Literally all the elementals did was bury the ruins of Amdapor in the forest. Even Raya-O-Senna tells you that much:

Show Content

Bottom line: you can play a white mage. Can we please stop policing RP now?

V'aleera · **06-08-2015, 08:56 PM**

(06-08-2015, 08:30 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: Two of those three really wouldn't work. Â It isn't the Soulstone that makes a White Mage a White Mage. Â In the questline, the Soulstone is just like the "club membership" that gets you taught by the Padjal. Â And even with a Tome, if you don't have the Elementals' permission, you can't use Succor. Â Full stop. Â They're actively preventing mortals from accessing it, so you actually need their permission.

About soulstones: you absolutely CAN randomly find a shiny rock, "attune" or sync up nicely with the spirit of the person who created it, and get pretty much all the power and learning you need. I think it's extremely silly and I'm not fond of soulstones IC just like some people aren't fond of Fantasia IC but that is the canon Square has elected to create for this setting.

Also, I think the claim that the Elemental's permission is necessary for learning Succor is extremely dubious. If Succor can be taken and given at the whim of the Elementals alone, why did they have to wipe out every last White Mage and do everything possible to hide every trace of the Amdapori? Why didn't they just take the White Magic back and refuse to give it out again? What's more, we already know that there are different "nefarious" ways of gaining access to Succor without needing Elemental permission.

The Elementals may have created Succor, but there is nothing in lore that suggests they have any control over it (save of course for the control they impose with their threats of extermination for any and all who disobey their edicts). In fact, the entire backstory of Succor is that the Elementals lost control of the magic and had to reign the mortals in.

Gone. · **06-08-2015, 09:14 PM**

I often wonder how much of this is really just glorified fear mongering. Succor, green wrath, etc. all come off as very man-made concepts to scare the Gridanian populace into an ideal scope of morality.

But, you know, roleplaying sandbox with Swiss cheese lore. We can theory craft in circles for hours but at the end of the day, it's all down to personal headcanons. If the whole community were to go off solely by what the game gives us at face value (which is, by all means, not a lot to work with), it'd make for a very, very boring experience indeed.

Would make for some well-placed irony, though...

Sounsyy · **06-08-2015, 09:39 PM**

(06-08-2015, 09:14 PM)hauntmedoitagain Wrote: I often wonder how much of this is really just glorified fear mongering. Succor, green wrath, etc. all come off as very man-made concepts to scare the Gridanian populace into an ideal scope of morality.

WOOD'S

Beckon of the Elementals

WILL

Shadow of the Raven

BE

The Call of Nature

DONE

Chorus of Cataclysm

Though the 1.0 Gridanian MSQ entertained the possibility/likelihood that the Elementals may just be some made up thing to keep Gridanians subjugated, the game itself showed them to be very real and every bit as powerful as they were made out to be. They may have been severely weakened by the Calamity, but breaking the Pact of Gelmorra is still a very real concern that the Gridanians should not test.

V'aleera · **06-08-2015, 09:57 PM**

(06-08-2015, 09:39 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: They may have been severely weakened by the Calamity, but breaking the Pact of Gelmorra is still a very real concern that the Gridanians should not test.

Not with what little leverage they have at the moment. But as technologies evolve and old magics are reclaimed from the past, there may soon come a time where the mortals can finally show up to the bargaining table with the Elementals carrying a few very big sticks.

Sounsyy · **06-08-2015, 10:17 PM**

(06-08-2015, 09:57 PM)Intaki Wrote:
(06-08-2015, 09:39 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: They may have been severely weakened by the Calamity, but breaking the Pact of Gelmorra is still a very real concern that the Gridanians should not test.
Not with what little leverage they have at the moment. But as technologies evolve and old magics are reclaimed from the past, there may soon come a time where the mortals can finally show up to the bargaining table with the Elementals carrying a few very big sticks.

Um... every tree is an Elemental. Every stream, every boulder. They are the world. I don't think we're going to get a bigger stick than a moon crashing into the planet? The Elementals were born of Hydaelyn 10,000 years ago. They survived seven calamities, the technological might of the Allagans, and the magical feats of the Black Mages. Mages who were able to revive entire armies, animate mountains, and alter the cosmos. I don't think what few modern day black mages do exist will even be able to come close to those feats. Nor our technology match the Allagans. So... what big stick are the Gridanians planning on waving at the Elementals? At... the very beings which animate the world?

As for bargaining, I don't see what more you want them to bargain? The Pact of the Gelmorra was their bargain. If you want to live in Our home, you follow Our rules. Simple. "Wood's Will Be Done" is the Gridanian motto for a reason. Duskwight didn't want to follow those rules, so they stayed out of the Twelveswood and in Gelmorra. The Elementals didn't force their rules on the Duskwight. The Elementals still don't impose their rules on the Duskwights to this day according to the Dev team. The Gridanians do though. How dare someone not respect the Elementals and not want to bask in their glory. Let's bury their home and be really discriminatory against them.

Mortal logic. And you wonder why the Elementals are ambivalent to mankind? They were born of Hydaelyn's Light. They've lived since before the Dawn of Eras. They've seen seven cycles of death and rebirth where mankind builds himself up, only to destroy himself. Why should they care about us?

Gone. · **06-08-2015, 10:19 PM**

So basically angry fairies in 1.0. Not sure what that has to do with 2.0, though, nor is it really fair to throw that down as law of the land when most of us never played it and no longer can. Very few things were carried over far as I can tell. Job lore did not seem to be amongst those.

Also keep in mind, the only time we see elementals doing much of anything in 2.0 is when they're on our side. A foreigner. This does not paint a very threatening picture, especially when all they could muster up is a handful of critters to fight. The PC does most of the work, really.

Sounsyy · **06-08-2015, 10:31 PM**

(06-08-2015, 10:19 PM)hauntmedoitagain Wrote: So basically angry fairies in 1.0. Not sure what that has to do with 2.0, though, nor is it really fair to throw that down as law of the land when most of us never played it and no longer can. Very few things were carried over far as I can tell. Job lore did not seem to be amongst those.

What do you mean what does 1.0 have to do with 2.0? The Calamity was 1.0... does that mean it does not exist because it is now 2.0? I don't understand. This is the lore of the world as of five years ago. Just because every bit of 1.0 lore has not resurfaced immediately into 2.0 does not mean that it ceases to exist? Dunstan was an important character from 1.0 MSQ, he now has a spire in 2.0 named after him. Merlwyb's ascension and unification of the pirates under the Galadion Accord was a 1.0 event, and it's still a key point of interest in Limsa today in 2.0. Nothing has ceased. The passage of time has altered some things, like the Elementals now being weakened, but it has not disqualified a single bit of lore that I have found yet.

Also Job lore is a part of this. The 2nd and 4th videos linked were post-1.20. The 4th video is an excerpt from the 1.0 WHM questline, wherein Oha-Sok, an elder Elemental becomes your white mage robes so you may carry Her everywhere.

(06-08-2015, 10:19 PM)hauntmedoitagain Wrote: Also keep in mind, the only time we see elementals doing much of anything in 2.0 is when they're on our side. A foreigner. This does not paint a very threatening picture, especially when all they could muster up is a handful of critters to fight. The PC does most of the work, really.

Its been established by dialogue from almost every Hearer in Gridania that the Calamity severely weakened the Elementals. As the Elementals are the world, it only makes sense that when the world is in dire straights, so too are the Elementals. Which is why now more than ever the Wood is in need of Succor.

Verilys · **06-08-2015, 10:41 PM**

(06-08-2015, 09:39 PM)Sounsyy Wrote:
(06-08-2015, 09:14 PM)hauntmedoitagain Wrote: I often wonder how much of this is really just glorified fear mongering. Succor, green wrath, etc. all come off as very man-made concepts to scare the Gridanian populace into an ideal scope of morality.

WOOD'S

WILL

BE

DONE

Though the 1.0 Gridanian MSQ entertained the possibility/likelihood that the Elementals may just be some made up thing to keep Gridanians subjugated, the game itself showed them to be very real and every bit as powerful as they were made out to be. They may have been severely weakened by the Calamity, but breaking the Pact of Gelmorra is still a very real concern that the Gridanians should not test.

I can't watch the videos from my current location, sadly! But though Elementals obviously exist and have real power (and that's relatively well-displayed in many questlines), do we have an unbiased source with regards to Succor? I kinda like the idea of it not being something of the Elementals' own power, but if they catch you using it, they'll smite you down. Which is probably exactly what happened to Sylphie's mother. Big Grin

... Or maybe she was assassinated by Padjals. Adorable child-like bearers of wisdom? Or bloodthirsty beasts of Elemental Law?

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