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Verad · **05-07-2015, 04:51 PM**

(05-07-2015, 04:48 PM)Warren Castille Wrote:
(05-07-2015, 04:45 PM)Aya Wrote: Just tell the Syndicate, "Good Luck finding Blades willing to shut it down." :-]

While Warren's sword arm and my heart are all aflutter at a faction war and social infighting, we're dealing with a "GS never existed" situation instead of a "GS can not now exist."

BUT MAN, THIS IS MAKING ME WANT TO WRITE ALT-VERSE FICTION.

This raises another good point - how do you handle the retcon itself? Who have you interacted with, whose interactions are based heavily on the retconned material, and what do you tell them? For example, if two characters would have met only through retconned material, do you have them meet again?

allgivenover · **05-07-2015, 05:00 PM**

(05-07-2015, 04:00 PM)Melkire Wrote:
(05-07-2015, 03:58 PM)allgivenover Wrote: Bend the lore as far as you can without breaking it. But keep in mind that good lore bending won't ever get decimated by new lore, only slightly modified.

How do we define "slightly"? The degree of modification will vary drastically with each case. Are we condemning certain degrees of lore-bending because they require significant overhauling/retooling to bring them back into line with each new lore dump?

Considering no one can agree on what's lore bending and what's lore breaking it's entirely subjective.

As long as what's "bending", "breaking", or "slightly" is consistent in your circles, it's fine.

Warren Castille · **05-07-2015, 05:05 PM**

(05-07-2015, 04:51 PM)Verad Wrote: This raises another good point - how do you handle the retcon itself? Who have you interacted with, whose interactions are based heavily on the retconned material, and what do you tell them? For example, if two characters would have met only through retconned material, do you have them meet again?

It would have to be done on a per-person basis. For most acquaintances it would be easy enough to shift to "we met out and about." For others it would be easier to just dust off and point out there'd've never met if not for X event or circumstance.

As for handling it? I'd probably put a huge disclaimer on my wiki or something and indicate in my /seacom that I got hit by the retcon cannon.

It's always messy, but it's possible to mitigate.

Desu Nee · **05-07-2015, 05:47 PM**

(05-07-2015, 05:05 PM)Warren Castille Wrote:
(05-07-2015, 04:51 PM)Verad Wrote: This raises another good point - how do you handle the retcon itself? Who have you interacted with, whose interactions are based heavily on the retconned material, and what do you tell them? For example, if two characters would have met only through retconned material, do you have them meet again?

It would have to be done on a per-person basis. For most acquaintances it would be easy enough to shift to "we met out and about." For others it would be easier to just dust off and point out there'd've never met if not for X event or circumstance.

As for handling it? I'd probably put a huge disclaimer on my wiki or something and indicate in my /seacom that I got hit by the retcon cannon.

It's always messy, but it's possible to mitigate.

Pretty much this except the Wiki I never update my Wiki

Khadan · **05-07-2015, 06:42 PM**

(05-07-2015, 04:25 PM)Warren Castille Wrote:
(05-07-2015, 04:12 PM)Kayllen Wrote: This discussion is pretty enjoyable, so far!

Doing pretty good at bat so far, so mind if I throw a curveball?

Newly revealed Ishgardian lore states that Dragoons and Temple Knights are entirely different factions: If a family line blossoms a dragoon, their line can never be temple knights and vice versa.

What happens to your family history?

Disclosure: If anyone has a link to your wiki in their signature, I've probably read it.

Woo a lot to catch up on. Those nachos were good, too.Â

ANYWAY I'll have to do a couple of posts so apologies ahead of time.Â

This is a fairly good hypothetical, actually. Though I would pose that the simplest counter would be for a Dragoon bloodline to marry into a Temple Knight bloodline and thus negating said distinction. Though of course the counter-counter would be to make it matriarchal/patriarchal and that's how its decided, etc.

As for Kayllen in that situation there's probably a couple of possibilities though for the sake of the exercise we'll go with "how do I keep things more or less the 'same' as they are now with these conditions". I would say that since his Father was a Temple Knight of substantial rank, obviously no Aymeric but enough to command his own force (Captain, perhaps?) then him joining the Temple Knights so far seems pretty on point. Later after the fall of the Blades of Halone (the name of the Temple Knights regiment he was in) he fled to the desert on orders from his Father to one day expose the betrayal that led them to ruin etc. At this point he is no longer a Temple Knight and, in fact, isn't really even 'alive' as far as the bureaucracy of Ishgard is concerned. All their Temple Knights were wiped out, the unit disbanded, and the family's resources that were tied to that were put elsewhere.

Later when he returns to Ishgard or, rather, was forced to return because of 'circumstances' having to do with a rogue branch of the Faces of Mercy trying to kick off a war between the Eorzean Alliance and Ishgard he has to be re-acknowledged by the court and his family in order to be considered 'alive' and not an imposter or some such thing. Though having his faction of TK's disbanded still leaves him without a unit and having been written off as dead, the best thing he can hope for is to basically have no 'job' waiting for him back in Ishgard as far as the TK's are concerned. Besides, at worst he's been AWOL/MIA/KIA for 6-7 years, that's a hefty punishment if they chose to go that route.Â

With him moving towards Dragoon these days due to 'acquiring' his Sister's soulstone which was their Grandfather's (which I suspect is part of the caveat of the questioning and it's easy enough to make it a distant relative or just not a relative's soul stone at all. The grandfather thing was just a nice twist in the family legacy story arc, anyway =P) I would say that in order to maintain his plot with him staying an aspiring Dragoon he would likely have to renounce any familial ties and become 'houseless'. He was already legally 'dead' and his Mother has denounced/renounced/disowned him anyway, leaving him out of the bloodline and so on. At this point I would say that, even though unconventional, he would still have a claim to be a Dragoon.Â

Quick point of order, too, is that SE would have to retcon the lore tidbit that basically any Isghardian(?) that kills a dragon (I suspect it has to be a substantial dragon like Naul-type) is technically awarded the title "Dragoon". Though how they go from "guy who killed a dragon once" to "Jumping around ZOOMING Dragoon" is still unknown. Here's hoping we find out soon, though! =P

Sorry for the lengthy reply!

Khadan · **05-07-2015, 07:01 PM**

(05-07-2015, 04:50 PM)Verad Wrote: My point is to get you to talk about your character in specifics and in detail rather than express the same platitudes about headcanon and working with the creative tools you're given which, I assure you, the majority of the RPC community knows. Thank you for doing so!

That's a fair point. It's a sort of civil 'put your money where your mouth is' exercise and it's been great fun so far plus I always enjoy the opportunity to go over my own concepts with a critical lens. Thanks for engaging me!

Quote:What circumstances would cause this mental state? If the training did not have the particular impact that it does in-game, and has some other affect (unique or not, given that this is a fantasy setting and this can, thoughtcrime though this may be on my part, indicate that not everything is based in real-life historical reresentations) on his personality, what would that be?

That's a good question. It's easy to say someone was trained to be the way they are and thus can't always 'break' that conditioning. I would say that his current mental state would have come from the thought and fear of being hunted and killed by those that betrayed his TK unit when his Father died. That kind of thing isn't something that would stand up to scrutiny especially when the claim was made that there were no witnesses survivors that could counter the story. Especially the son of a well known individual who 'comes back to life' and states for the record "Hey those guys did the bad thing!".Â

The notion that you're being hunted, that your whole existence hinges on not being found out, caught, discovered, and/or outed to someone who sought to profit from your death is enough to make anyone a little jumpy or sociopathically paranoid. I imagine that the main change would be his coming to Thanalan a bit more 'naive' and developing IN to the colder emotionally cold person that he is now. Ul'Dah is a city where someone would probably sell their own mother for a nickel; it's known as the City of Sin and even the Grand Company's motto is "For Coin and Country" emphasizing a priority on money over patriotism. All in all it's a great place to disappear al la Jason Bourne but it's also a place where a misstep could lead to getting a knife in the neck if you're careless with your information. Rather than it being "This is how I survive, here" it would be "This is how I learned to survive, here." There would be some story elements to change as far as how his life went from arrival to current day but those would be easy enough tweaks to make.

If his training was as you posed before, such that required him to be fully emotional and open etc, a place like Ul'dah is the first place I'd pick to try and break that conditioning. =P

Good question!

Ciel · **05-07-2015, 07:17 PM**

(05-07-2015, 10:00 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: Hypothetical panic thread!

What do we do when the grey areas we write in suddenly get a spotlight shown on them and then eradicated? Do we retcon ourselves to avoid the fallout? Do we ignore it and march on in the face of exceptions? What's your worst-case scenario that would force you to respond in big, sweeping changes?

Find a different way to explain your character being what they are.Â I don't call Ciel a Bard, she's either a songstress or a bard (note the -little- b).Â This sets her apart from the in-game canon just enough since Bard (note the big B) is very specific and is spoken of in limited terms just as some other jobs are (only one Warrior or White Mage, etc).Â Anyone can be a warrior, even if they can't be The Warrior.Â And as others have mentioned, SE has said there are other ways people are trying to access white magic through nefarious means.Â I suppose this would make them off-white mages.

As we see in some of the dungeons, there are NPC Voidcallers.Â Although, as stated, void-touched people have their souls consumed etc, this doesn't necessarily have to be the case with a Voidcaller unless they dig too deeply.Â This could be a cover for someone who is, job-wise, a Black Mage but can't justify calling themselves that IC because of hard canon.

Personally, I have no problem with people saying they're one job or another, regardless of a difference in capitalization, but there are a few concepts I struggle with seeing some folks play.Â I can't say much, though, so I tend to not criticize.

Khadan · **05-07-2015, 07:21 PM**

(05-07-2015, 04:28 PM)Melkire Wrote:
(05-07-2015, 04:25 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: -snip-

Pitch for Warren: Square-Enix clarifies in new lore dump that the Coliseum is the only Syndicate-sanctioned fighting arena and that all other tournaments have long since been outlawed throughout Thanalan, thereby effectively retconning the Grindstone out of existence as far as headcanon goes. What would Warren be doing instead?

I'd throw a pitch at everyone who's ever posted in this thread but I'm at work, don't have the time, and I feel like Warren cheated his way out of a real answer in his original post. I challenge everyone to try and answer the prompt, though.

I'll take a swing at this as well for funzies. I used to participate in the Grindstone back in the day but I haven't been to it or participated in it in a long time, now. Â

That being said, I can see the logic behind the Syndicates trying to quash something like the Grindstone, heck that's perfectly good entertainment being spectated on for free! No concessions? No tickets to get in? Sometimes the winner gets a cash prize, too? WTF! *flexes [Graft] powers and sends in all the brass blades to inflict as much police brutality as possible*

That being said, I'd say that it would be something to use a challenge rather than an obstacle. How do the free people's of Eorzea deal with a sanction like this? I would post that they either give it the Tyler Durden treatment "The first rule of Grindstone is you don't talk about Grindstone..." make it more 'underground' and shady, etc. Give it that real 'two people duking it out dirty cardboard in a basement' feeling; loser gets dragged off to a corner by two shirtless guys and tossed out the back or laid down in front of a medical clinic, etc. That kind of gritty stuff is always good fun.Â

Alternately there could be other things like I think someone suggested making it more like 'the peasant's coliseum' and perhaps Warren or whomever has to pay off the Brass Blades regularly in order to keep the Syndicate either satisfied or in the dark which runs its own set of risks and potentials for RP and growth.

It could be forced to move to another region or to continuously move throughout Thanalan in order to keep the Blades off their ass or lastly it could be held in Little Ala Mhigo or something where, despite a Brass Blades presence, they could probably write it off as 'cultural stuff'. Lots of possibilities!

Kellach Woods · **05-07-2015, 08:07 PM**

Hope you guys like reading because just for Kell I have a metric crapton of stuff to write here.

The Island of Toegisil does not exist, nor is there a landmass in the general headcanon vicinity that would offer the kind of climate that it possesses

I would either look for a replacement, or let's push this to the natural conclusion, the 4 seasons do not exist as we know them, and they are a key component of Toegisil. This would require substantial rewrite of his background which is partially inspired by the traditional life of a French-Canadian colonist/rural person. The fact that he had to accompany his father in winter for logging operations would cease to be, and likely I would simply retool his background to only care for the cattle/agriculture parts. Chances are the entire background would need to be rehauled, but the core of the character (a stranger from outside of Eorzea coming in) would remain the same, same with his experiences. This is why I really wanted to have something simple at the core because I knew that whatever fluff I added can be whisked away with a wave of the hand.

This would be a substantial rewrite that would essentially erase months of background building. It'd make me groan out in physical pain as I sit my ass down and get a new set of guidelines to work and to play around with but it's more out of having to do it that I'd groan. I'd still enjoy building another unstable tower because the foundations remain solid.

Gear from the Crystal Tower CANNOT be replicated / Zodiac Relics cannot be replicated.

Well, that'd screw me over for my iconic mask/loincloth look, but I've seen some other pieces that are quite interesting. I could make a purple outfit off of the Behemoth Mask, change my planned DRG outfit to WAR, etc. There's plenty of stuff that I can technically do to maintain a similar look while successfully complying to lore. From there I would have to accurately depict all the functionality I'd added to the mask (Actually more of a facial protector than anything, and has a hidden compartment that has an aether-treated cloth that filters out toxins when deployed - Handy!)

In so far as the Bravura is concerned, I never RPed as though the axe was the relic of legend, just taking the base description of it being a particularly heavy axe to heart. The Zodiac would pose problems, as the lore behind it states that it used to be a sword and became an axe over time as the Zodiac Brave who wrenched it from the Void used it. As it looks nothing like the Bravura, I cannot explain it away by breaking down the axe in its core component. I'm not sure what exactly I would do at this point as I do not wish to glam over it. It's an interesting question to be sure.

I'd have to swallow my pride and try to find an axe that looks just as good but does not have the baggage of the Zodiac relic.

The Mime job is not a thing, and no such powers exist within the FFXIV universe

This doesn't OPENLY contradict anything I've established, but rather a particularly clever handwave I'd recently introduced to explain why some people considered canon that I'd made them clothing/items while others didn't. It was essentially to rationalize a plot hole with an aspect of FF that I always found absolutely amazing (same with Blue Mages, really) which is mimicry. Instead of being what essentially would be the Next Coming of Godbert Manderville Except In All Disciplines Are You Not Hearing My Name It Is Mary Sue, I decided to just add a bit of FF recognition by adding a notion that his people emigrated from unknown lands to the island with innate knowledge programmed into themselves that they could survive without their masters. They were essentially hyuran puppets.

So, the idea is I told them that Kellach can't actually create items, but if you show him exactly how to do it, he can replicate it to the nth degree. I also wanted my wanting every job at 50 to be a reflection of that. He doesn't possess the knowledge, but he can certainly mime other people with that knowledge.

Taking that away would also reopen the plothole. Sticking with the explanation that he's not much of a creator but is an extremely skilled worker would be a good way to explain it.

Aether patterns are the same across all races, and deviation from this denotes extreme problems

This was a throwaway line I'd tossed in a RP with someone else just because gotta make the character interesting, and while it wouldn't change much in his roleplay, it'd certainly remove one of the obstacles he has to cast magic. He's not a magician - he understands the principles and other incantations necessary to channel aether from himself but simply cannot rely on magic too much as it's entirely possible that his aether for that particular element is off taking a piss.

I'd need to come up with another reason why he doesn't care much for actually casting magic, and chances are it'd just be a throwaway "he doesn't have an affinity for it".

Anyone touched by a Voidsent is irremediably corrupted

Kellach fucked a Voidsent. Whoops. While his descent through madness (or rather, change from being mentally unstable to an outright menace) would be fun to RP, being doomed to inevitably have to retire the character due to death would be so disheartening that I'd probably lose my drive as I struggle to find a character that could replace him via fantasia/namechange.

Yes, I'd rather do that than just retcon actual RP.

Zelmanov · **05-08-2015, 11:59 AM**

I have already personally experienced a headcanon punt to the nards with the drop of 2.55 due toÂ

Show Content

I've also been ready for the lore drop that non Azure Dragoon was incapable of jumping and fortunately I had ensured to not make my RP revolve around feats only capable by that ability. Fortunately Heavensward showed that its more than possible.

Basically, Root the important, focal, defining moments of your characters quite firmly in the lore. I learned that the hard way because I literally AGONIZED for days after 2.55 trying to reconcile Orrin's reason for leaving.

Aduu Avagnar · **05-08-2015, 01:44 PM**

To be honest I would kind of welcome a lore drop stating that anyone utilising the void/voidtouched goes insane/evil.

Would actually give it the gravitas it kind of deserves.

Warren Castille · **07-07-2016, 12:46 PM**

SO. I'm bumping this thread. It's been a year, we've had a lot of new people join since then and we KNOW there's a lore book coming down the line. So, fine people of the RPC, I ask you once again:

What's the worst thing SE could make official canon that would disrupt or destroy your current roleplay?

**Unnamed Mercenary** · **07-07-2016, 12:48 PM**

Garlemald would -never- exile one of their own and would always accept any of their people back with open arms. No matter the circumstances.

***GhostlyMaiden*** · **07-07-2016, 12:59 PM**

The only way SE could really screw up my RP is if they put a set in stone reason as to why people from Doma likely couldn't get to Eorzea before the whole rebellion thing. So, that would mean no trades routes (how Kanako got to Eorzea) could be used and thus, a lot of things that make Kanako the way she is couldn't happen and it would change her character drastically.

LadyRochester · **07-07-2016, 01:00 PM**

Don't think I have enough headcanons that SE could potentially ruin that are important to my character. That said, I would probably discreetly retcon a few details and change them up.

Or, you know, cry like a little bitch.

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Disaster! SE just ruined your headcanon!

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes