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Aya · **08-20-2014, 02:21 PM**

(08-20-2014, 02:15 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: Haha, details will be forthcoming. But really the biggest thing at stake will be the pride and prestige of the cities involved. While bomb/poison/terrorist plots are fun, everyone already knows which side will win. This will actually be determined by the battles and IC actions. Hopefully!

Nuh uuuuh! Don't mess with Ul'dah!

[Image: aya_dont_mess_with.png]

LiveVoltage · **08-20-2014, 02:25 PM**

I would agree, but sadly not. It's not fun if the bad guys don't win every now and then. It makes them look weak and insignificant. Big bads are Big Bads for a reason, so they deserve to win some because their position as a big bad demands it, otherwise its just bad RP.

Just remember, nobody likes a Paladin who always wins nor a villain who always looses. Its really give and take for the whole thing and striking a balance between win's and defeat's is what make's RP fun because you never know what will happen.

McBeefâ„¢ · **08-20-2014, 02:28 PM**

(08-20-2014, 02:25 PM)LiveVoltage Wrote: I would agree, but sadly not. It's not fun if the bad guys don't win every now and then. It makes them look weak and insignificant. Big bads are Big Bads for a reason, so they deserve to win some because their position as a big bad demands it, otherwise its just bad RP.

Just remember, nobody likes a Paladin who always wins nor a villain who always looses. Its really give and take for the whole thing and striking a balance between win's and defeat's is what make's RP fun because you never know what will happen.

There is a slight issue here that these plots often blow up out of control. It's one thing for a villain to get away, or have a small victory. But Ul'dah is not going to get blown up. It's just not going to happen. Everyone knows it, the plot is still fun, but there is no other way to do such a high stakes plot besides internally knowing the heroes will win.

Verad · **08-20-2014, 02:38 PM**

(08-20-2014, 02:25 PM)LiveVoltage Wrote: I would agree, but sadly not. It's not fun if the bad guys don't win every now and then. It makes them look weak and insignificant. Big bads are Big Bads for a reason, so they deserve to win some because their position as a big bad demands it, otherwise its just bad RP.

Just remember, nobody likes a Paladin who always wins nor a villain who always looses. Its really give and take for the whole thing and striking a balance between win's and defeat's is what make's RP fun because you never know what will happen.

I do. I like these things. These things are okay.

Let me amend this to add some extra advice: Make sure everyone is on the same page thematically.

This, I think, is a significant but unspoken barrier to really good arcs. Verad's stories can be somewhat serious, but they're never going to be pits of darkness in which villains always win unless heroes morally compromise themselves or sacrifice the things they care about. I would be sure to tell players that in advance, in case players who prefer a much bleaker tone can steer clear.Â

I would similarly keep Verad out of such plots, not because they're not interesting to me (all plots are interesting to me, but not all are right for the character), but because his efforts to provide levity and optimism may run counter to the planner's goals.

This ties in to Roen's suggestion to consider what themes you want to address in your story when planning it - don't just consider what themes, but how you want to address them in terms of tone.

LiveVoltage · **08-20-2014, 02:49 PM**

(08-20-2014, 02:28 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote:
(08-20-2014, 02:25 PM)LiveVoltage Wrote: I would agree, but sadly not. It's not fun if the bad guys don't win every now and then. It makes them look weak and insignificant. Big bads are Big Bads for a reason, so they deserve to win some because their position as a big bad demands it, otherwise its just bad RP.

Just remember, nobody likes a Paladin who always wins nor a villain who always looses. Its really give and take for the whole thing and striking a balance between win's and defeat's is what make's RP fun because you never know what will happen.

There is a slight issue here that these plots often blow up out of control. It's one thing for a villain to get away, or have a small victory. But Ul'dah is not going to get blown up. It's just not going to happen. Everyone knows it, the plot is still fun, but there is no other way to do such a high stakes plot besides internally knowing the heroes will win.

I think you misread what I typed. Of course villains wont be able to blow up Ul'dal, but neither are they going to be blocked at every turn either.

I meant it generally that the villain's should win some, if you want a more simple explanation. I never meant that they should kill 1000 people and be able to get away with it, totally blowing what I originally meant out of proportion.

McBeefâ„¢ · **08-20-2014, 03:04 PM**

(08-20-2014, 02:49 PM)LiveVoltage Wrote:
(08-20-2014, 02:28 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote:
(08-20-2014, 02:25 PM)LiveVoltage Wrote: I would agree, but sadly not. It's not fun if the bad guys don't win every now and then. It makes them look weak and insignificant. Big bads are Big Bads for a reason, so they deserve to win some because their position as a big bad demands it, otherwise its just bad RP.

Just remember, nobody likes a Paladin who always wins nor a villain who always looses. Its really give and take for the whole thing and striking a balance between win's and defeat's is what make's RP fun because you never know what will happen.

There is a slight issue here that these plots often blow up out of control. It's one thing for a villain to get away, or have a small victory. But Ul'dah is not going to get blown up. It's just not going to happen. Everyone knows it, the plot is still fun, but there is no other way to do such a high stakes plot besides internally knowing the heroes will win.
I think you misread what I typed. Of course villains wont be able to blow up Ul'dal, but neither are they going to be blocked at every turn either.

I meant it generally that the villain's should win some, if you want a more simple explanation. I never meant that they should kill 1000 people and be able to get away with it, totally blowing what I originally meant out of proportion.

Fair enough, perhaps I should have been more specific and said 'in the end'

Yes obviously villains will score their early victories, that's what gives the story tension. But the final outcome for most of these large plots is never really in doubt.

Berrod Armstrong · **08-20-2014, 03:43 PM**

(08-20-2014, 03:04 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote:
(08-20-2014, 02:49 PM)LiveVoltage Wrote:
(08-20-2014, 02:28 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote:
(08-20-2014, 02:25 PM)LiveVoltage Wrote: I would agree, but sadly not. It's not fun if the bad guys don't win every now and then. It makes them look weak and insignificant. Big bads are Big Bads for a reason, so they deserve to win some because their position as a big bad demands it, otherwise its just bad RP.

Just remember, nobody likes a Paladin who always wins nor a villain who always looses. Its really give and take for the whole thing and striking a balance between win's and defeat's is what make's RP fun because you never know what will happen.

There is a slight issue here that these plots often blow up out of control. It's one thing for a villain to get away, or have a small victory. But Ul'dah is not going to get blown up. It's just not going to happen. Everyone knows it, the plot is still fun, but there is no other way to do such a high stakes plot besides internally knowing the heroes will win.
I think you misread what I typed. Of course villains wont be able to blow up Ul'dal, but neither are they going to be blocked at every turn either.

I meant it generally that the villain's should win some, if you want a more simple explanation. I never meant that they should kill 1000 people and be able to get away with it, totally blowing what I originally meant out of proportion.

Fair enough, perhaps I should have been more specific and said 'in the end'

Yes obviously villains will score their early victories, that's what gives the story tension. But the final outcome for most of these large plots is never really in doubt.

I actually enjoy running plots where it can be totally up in the air who the 'villains' are. Different sides, fighting for different ideals -- none of which are outright -wrong-, but they oppose each other so solidly that the success of one side means the obliteration of the other's way of life.Â

Makes for an interesting take on 'letting the villains win'.

Especially when the 'villain' is you!

C'kayah Polaali · **08-20-2014, 04:59 PM**

(08-20-2014, 02:21 PM)Aya Wrote:
(08-20-2014, 02:15 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: Haha, details will be forthcoming. But really the biggest thing at stake will be the pride and prestige of the cities involved. While bomb/poison/terrorist plots are fun, everyone already knows which side will win. This will actually be determined by the battles and IC actions. Hopefully!
Nuh uuuuh! Don't mess with Ul'dah!

Limsa is strong!
[Image: C8DYSeG.png]

DreamedReality · **08-20-2014, 07:31 PM**

Thank you, Hornet, for making this thread. It's something I've been struggling A LOT with over the last couple of months, being a very reactive RPer myself. And a thank you to all the folks that have responded so far.

I do have a couple follow-up questions on some of the great advice presented so far. And for a bit of perspective... I'd describe myself as a reactive tabletop RPer trying to transition into an active MMO RPer. With most of my MMO RP experience being more casual/tavern style rp until FF14's launch. So I don't have much experience at being in MMO RP plot arcs.

How do folks here determine when an NPC (or badguy/antagonist) is important enough to warrant creating and dragging through the tutorial (and potentially lvling further)? Or do NPCs generally stay written but not seen?

Can I get a few more tips on how folks here (particularly those that run the Group Driven style plots over the Character Story arcs) juggle finding time to actually run your 'main' between directing story/playing npcs/badguys? That's actually one of my main concerns... I'm quite fond of Jaques(and my alts) and don't want to feel trapped in playing weeks and weeks of not Jaques(et al).

Melkire · **08-20-2014, 08:04 PM**

(08-20-2014, 07:31 PM)Jaques Wrote: How do folks here determine when an NPC (or badguy/antagonist) is important enough to warrant creating and dragging through the tutorial (and potentially lvling further)? Or do NPCs generally stay written but not seen?

Can I get a few more tips on how folks here (particularly those that run the Group Driven style plots over the Character Story arcs) juggle finding time to actually run your 'main' between directing story/playing npcs/badguys? That's actually one of my main concerns... I'm quite fond of Jaques(and my alts) and don't want to feel trapped in playing weeks and weeks of not Jaques(et al).

I can't speak to juggling a long-term villainous alt with your main (haven't had one yet, but I'll point you to Askier, whose alt for multiple Group-Driven plots [Jin'li] lasted for months), but I can take a stab at the other questions.

Whether an alt should be dedicated to a NPC is largely a question of:

1. How central is the character to the story arc;
2. How often the character will make recurring appearances in this arc and others;
3. How long the character is expected to last;
4. How important it is to have a universally-accepted visual representation of that character.

I'll go a little in-depth into #4: not only does having a NPC alt give players something to look at so that you don't have to emote out their appearance every time they show up, but in certain situations, such as combat RP, it is extremely beneficial to have a physical entity present so that you have a position, direction, orientation, etc. It's the difference between having a model for your Red Dragon/Carnifex/whatever present on the tabletop and -not- having -anything- present.

As for leveling your NPC alt, generally speaking you level to 15 to gain easy access between cities, to gain access to dyes and the aesthetician. You level beyond 15 as necessary to don the gear appropriate for your NPC's vanity/appearance etc.

EDIT:

As Merc mentions below, Roen is also a good person to talk to re: juggling alts. Hers certainly last much longer than Askier's. =P

**Unnamed Mercenary** · **08-20-2014, 08:04 PM**

(08-20-2014, 07:31 PM)Jaques Wrote: Thank you, Hornet, for making this thread. It's something I've been struggling A LOT with over the last couple of months, being a very reactive RPer myself. And a thank you to all the folks that have responded so far.

I do have a couple follow-up questions on some of the great advice presented so far. And for a bit of perspective... I'd describe myself as a reactive tabletop RPer trying to transition into an active MMO RPer. With most of my MMO RP experience being more casual/tavern style rp until FF14's launch. So I don't have much experience at being in MMO RP plot arcs.

How do folks here determine when an NPC (or badguy/antagonist) is important enough to warrant creating and dragging through the tutorial (and potentially lvling further)? Or do NPCs generally stay written but not seen?

Can I get a few more tips on how folks here (particularly those that run the Group Driven style plots over the Character Story arcs) juggle finding time to actually run your 'main' between directing story/playing npcs/badguys? That's actually one of my main concerns... I'm quite fond of Jaques(and my alts) and don't want to feel trapped in playing weeks and weeks of not Jaques(et al).

With thw NPCs I've used, I'll level them to the point that I can outfit them with what I want. Otherwise, I keep them written only. I know quite a few people *cough* Roen *cough* who levels a bunch of alts as NPCs/Villains.

Verad · **08-20-2014, 08:20 PM**

I generally avoid making alts to represent NPCs on the following grounds:

-I am lazy
-If I spend that much time and effort on an alt for RP purposes, I'm going to want to keep the alt alive in RP. This begins the transition from NPC to PC, and I just don't have the time for that.
-Other people will start to want to keep the alt alive as well as a result of that same transition, and it can be difficult to eliminate a character when there are other players who want to keep it alive.

LiveVoltage · **08-20-2014, 08:22 PM**

Hrm... well I would offer two idea's to the matter of NPC's.

Forum RP seem;s to do the best job when it come's to NPC. It's easy and there is no relative confusion or mess involved, mainly because you have to imagine everything.

The other idea is to only establish alt PC's for characters that have an important role in the plot. Thats the only reason why I would think of an NPC alt being allowed to exist.

Faye · **08-20-2014, 08:31 PM**

I'm in the same boat. I'd offer advice if I had any, but we're in the same position. But some of the responses here from others have proved to be useful. Big Grin

Â There needs to be more "take charge" RPers out there.

Val · **08-20-2014, 08:54 PM**

It seems like something simple and, to some people, it is. You just think of a story and start roaming around RPing it from there. The problem I've always faced is getting people on board that are interested in your ideas, or getting people that want to join you.
It's hard to get people on board with RP and get stories going. I like to dabble as an active and a reactive RPer, but I also like for people to forge their own path and do their own thing. I've found that it's difficult to recruit people willing to be villains that will follow their own path in the RP rather than work with something that's preordained or pre-planned. I don't mind having a particular end goal in mind, but I do like it when all players have the ability to change that plan based on the actions of their characters.

This.. probably wasn't a suggestion so much as an acknowledgment of understanding. If you ever do wish to RP or want someone to RP with, you're more than welcome to call on me. I'd be glad to get involved in anything =)

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Transitioning from Reactive to Active RP

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes