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SayonaraRevival · **09-11-2014, 01:30 PM**

while I am making this topic, I'm still not quite in the WHM storyline (gettin' there, though) and not learning a little more about them just yet. thus, I won't post my own ideas until a later point. didn't see another padjal discussion topic in search or on the first few pages, so sorry if there was one somewhere at some point. D:

I am, however, heavily considering playing a fairly nonintrusive NPC Padjal over on Tumblr or something, one that'd be involved in my in-game's backstory as well, even if it's an unlikely event that someone would learn about that. I've made the blog, getting some art done, so on. and thus, as I've read all there really is online/available about them that I've ever been able to find, I want to hear your opinions and headcanons about them. (in the case of something I ask being answered directly by lore/circumstances in 1.0 or ones I haven't seen yet, just drop a quote/batch of ingame dialogue in or something.) to get some ideas on what I could theoretically do, ideas on what the general RPing community thinks at large, ideas in general, etc.

(also, just in case someone doesn't know, headcanons = opinions or ideas about a series that aren't proved nor disproved by the lore / canon material. something that's just a detail one likes to imagine about the given canon subject that might be true, might not be. do people even use that term outside fandoms?)

I'll give some questions to answer to kick this off:

1) do all Padjal individuals live a similar life?
that is, politics, learning conjury / white magic, and/or generally in some position of authority? is there room for them to follow a different path if they so choose?

2) do they also have somewhat of a 'celebrity' life?
if one was, say, on an errand to a shop, would they be stopped to be asked questions; would someone they talked to tell friends that "I talked to so-and-so today!" and such?

3) are they only able to stay in Gridania / the Twelveswood?Â
do the elementals permit them to travel outside the city, or the entire Shroud? does the populace mind? if they were to travel, would they need to return ASAP? how much protection would they have at their side?

4) do you think it's possible for a Padjal to be born outside of the Senna/Yan/Pesi families?
if so, are there are 'prerequisite' conditions for the elementals to consider blessing a child? what would they be? and are the three aforementioned families still subject to the theoretical rules?

( unofficial #5: is "Padjali" just a plural form or is it also used for some other situation? language grammar isn't my strong suit, I write more intuitively and by recalling what I've read )': sigh. )

**Unnamed Mercenary** · **09-11-2014, 11:59 PM**

Gonna try to answer these

1) do all Padjal individuals live a similar life?
that is, politics, learning conjury / white magic, and/or generally in some position of authority? is there room for them to follow a different path if they so choose?

Yes. Think of the Padjal as children that were chosen by the Elementals/Forest. From my understanding, it's kind of like being spirited away. THe Padjal aren't a reproducing race as much as they are children that sprout horns. As such, they do live a LOT longer, so chances are a Padjal has been alive for quite some time.

2) do they also have somewhat of a 'celebrity' life?
if one was, say, on an errand to a shop, would they be stopped to be asked questions; would someone they talked to tell friends that "I talked to so-and-so today!" and such?

Not really. They are tthe messengers between the will of the forest and Gridania. They've been called seedseers as well. However, they could have a celebrity-like status among the people. Kan-E-Senna seems to be popular, as do the leaders of the Conjurer's Guild.

3) are they only able to stay in Gridania / the Twelveswood?Â
do the elementals permit them to travel outside the city, or the entire Shroud? does the populace mind? if they were to travel, would they need to return ASAP? how much protection would they have at their side?

As part of becoming a Padjal, they are supposed to be the forest's will, and are not supposed to be able to leave, unless under very extreme circumstance. Again, Kan-E-Senna dd leave, and can be seen in the opening video. I'd expect a crashing moon and /really/ pissed off ancient primal to be a good excuse for leaving the forest.

4) do you think it's possible for a Padjal to be born outside of the Senna/Yan/Pesi families?
if so, are there are 'prerequisite' conditions for the elementals to consider blessing a child? what would they be? and are the three aforementioned families still subject to the theoretical rules?

They aren't really family names. Those are words of the Padjal language. (Gonna see if I can find the lore post for you). Usually a child that is a hearer of the forest would be considered.

( unofficial #5: is "Padjali" just a plural form or is it also used for some other situation? language grammar isn't my strong suit, I write more intuitively and by recalling what I've read )': sigh. )

I've yet to see Padjali. ...I think it's a collective noun, the same way you might say "geese" or "cattle". The same could be said for seeing a lot of Ixal, Hyur, Miqo'te or Roegadyn. (But we all know one says I saw a bunch of adorable Lalafells, instead of I saw a bunch of adorable Lalafell.)Â

allgivenover · **09-12-2014, 12:11 AM**

A-Towa-Cant traveled a lot, so I think it's alright for Padjal to leave. The Wood likely has interests it needs to defend by reaching /outside/ of itself.

LiadansWhisper · **09-12-2014, 12:47 AM**

This is not headcanon, sorry. This is what I've picked up in the game. Not much for headcanon, myself, unless it's very, very mild things.

(09-11-2014, 01:30 PM)SayonaraRevival Wrote: 1) do all Padjal individuals live a similar life?
that is, politics, learning conjury / white magic, and/or generally in some position of authority? is there room for them to follow a different path if they so choose?

Padjal, from what we see in game, are leaders whether they want to be or not. Â Even A-Ruhn Senna (who doesn't seem all that suited to a leadership role) and A-Towa Kant (who actively left the Shroud and traveled, seeking apparently to understand the Beast Tribes and spread his wisdom across Eorzea) are looked on as a leaders. The words of a Padjal hold immense weight in the Shroud, and I have yet to see an instance where anyone gainsaid one.

Quote:2) do they also have somewhat of a 'celebrity' life?
if one was, say, on an errand to a shop, would they be stopped to be asked questions; would someone they talked to tell friends that "I talked to so-and-so today!" and such?

They are quite literally the leaders of Gridania, and have a very distinctive look. Â They are also the only White Mages in existence, other than the Hero of the WHM Questline. Â They're pretty damn special.

Quote:3) are they only able to stay in Gridania / the Twelveswood?Â
do the elementals permit them to travel outside the city, or the entire Shroud? does the populace mind? if they were to travel, would they need to return ASAP? how much protection would they have at their side?

The only Padjal that we know of that travelled was A-Towa Kant, and he was referred to as a maverick. Â It's apparently extremely unusual for a Padjal to ever leave the Shroud, which makes sense if you consider that they are born to keep the peace between the Elementals and Gridania.

As far as protection, since every Padjal is a Hearer and a White Mage, quite a bit. Â But in the end, even A-Towa Kant - who was apparently extremely powerful - met his end in violence while outside the Shroud.

Quote:4) do you think it's possible for a Padjal to be born outside of the Senna/Yan/Pesi families?
if so, are there are 'prerequisite' conditions for the elementals to consider blessing a child? what would they be? and are the three aforementioned families still subject to the theoretical rules?

We know it is possible because we have A-Towa Kant. Â From what I've read, while Padjal tend to be born into similar family lines (like the Senna/Yan/Pesi), occasionally they can be born to another family. Â If there are any specific conditions to why the Elementals would choose to bless such a child to a family, we don't know of them - except they would need to be Gridanian. Padjal are not born outside of the Shroud, and they are not born to those outside of the covenant between the Elementals and Gridania.

Quote:( unofficial #5: is "Padjali" just a plural form or is it also used for some other situation? language grammar isn't my strong suit, I write more intuitively and by recalling what I've read )': sigh. )

"Padjal" appears to be both singular and plural. The only time I've seen "Padjali" used seems ot be in reference to a particular language? Â I may be wrong on that score, however. Sounsyyy where are youuuu....

(09-12-2014, 12:11 AM)allgivenover Wrote: A-Towa-Cant traveled a lot, so I think it's alright for Padjal to leave. The Wood likely has interests it needs to defend by reaching /outside/ of itself.

A-Towa Cant was described as a complete maverick. Â He was very, very unusual (which is probably why he chooses a non-Padjal successor in the WHM questline).

Sounsyy · **09-12-2014, 02:18 AM**

Some things to know to start. Padjal are a people created by the Elementals only 500 years ago. The Elementals chose select families of the first Gelmorran Conjurers who agreed to the Pact of Gelmorra and altered their children into the Padjal. When the blessed child reaches puberty, instead of maturing into an adult hyur or elezen they grow horns. As the Padjal ages, the horns grow in length, but the Padjal's physical form remains that of a pre-pubescent child.

Fernehalwes explains the process here: Padjal Naming Conventions

1. Yes, with the notable exception of one Padjal, all Padjal are born within the Wood and fulfill their birthright of walking it and restoring it. All Padjal are born with the power of Succor (White Magic) and are Hearers. A Hearer being a person who can hear the whispers of the Wood.

They are NOT all in positions of authority, contrary to popular belief. They are respected members of the community, but do not necessarily wield authority. A-Towa-Cant left the Twelveswood to travel the world. O-App-Pesi had no authority and often wandered the Wood alone or aided in the endeavors of the God's Quiver. Brother E-Sumi-Yan wasn't even the active guildmaster of the CNJ guild until the Calamity. A hyuran Hearer named Ingram held that responsibility if I remember correctly. There are many more Padjal off camera who wander the Wood and aid in quelling the Elementals. The only Padjal who are actually in authority are those on the Seedseer Council.

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2. I kinda touched on this in #1, but yes and no. They are respected members of the community but are not really celebrity status. Similar to how a fireman or a soldier in uniform might be shown respect for what they do in passing.

3. Padjal can leave the Wood. A-Towa-Cant was noted for leaving the Shroud to explore the world. Kan-E-Senna also leaves the Wood on several occasions. However, I should preface this by saying that I believe they would have a reason for leaving the Wood. Whatever matters need their attention. The Shroud is their home.

4. Yes, according to lore there are more than just those three families.

Quote:There are several old Hyur families in Gridania which consistently (albeit rarely) produce Padjals. Those include the Senna, the Yan, and the Pesi families.

There is also an elezen family named Cant that has produced at least one Padjal. (Although I theorize Cant is a shortened, Padjali version of his real elezen family name. Maybe Cantiloux or something like that. Who knows.)

As for pre-reqs, lore only tells us that the families who most commonly produce Padjal were among the first Conjurers of Gelmorra. So any Padjal character you produce would most likely have to be able to trace his ancestry back 500 years to one of those first Conjurers.

5. Padjal is the proper noun. Padjali is the proper adjective. Padjals is the plural form of Padjal.
Example: "Toto-Rak was slain by a Padjal."
Example: "Toto-Rak is a beast from Padjali mythology."
Example: "It probably took many Padjals to kill Toto-Rak."

Very similar to the Ixal. Ixal is the name of the race. Ixali is their proper adjective.
Sometimes real-world examples help me. Think "Arab" vs "Arabic."

Anyways, hope this helps! ^^

**Unnamed Mercenary** · **09-12-2014, 02:22 AM**

Here's a lore post on their naming.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threa...post983986

Because Fernehalwes cares. Smile

LiadansWhisper · **09-12-2014, 03:58 AM**

(09-12-2014, 02:18 AM)Sounsyy Wrote: Some things to know to start. Padjal are a people created by the Elementals only 500 years ago. The Elementals chose select families of the first Gelmorran Conjurers who agreed to the Pact of Gelmorra and altered their children into the Padjal. When the blessed child reaches puberty, instead of maturing into an adult hyur or elezen they grow horns. As the Padjal ages, the horns grow in length, but the Padjal's physical form remains that of a pre-pubescent child.

Fernehalwes explains the process here: Padjal Naming Conventions

1. Yes, with the notable exception of one Padjal, all Padjal are born within the Wood and fulfill their birthright of walking it and restoring it. All Padjal are born with the power of Succor (White Magic) and are Hearers. A Hearer being a person who can hear the whispers of the Wood.

They are NOT all in positions of authority, contrary to popular belief. They are respected members of the community, but do not necessarily wield authority. A-Towa-Cant left the Twelveswood to travel the world. O-App-Pesi had no authority and often wandered the Wood alone or aided in the endeavors of the God's Quiver. Brother E-Sumi-Yan wasn't even the active guildmaster of the CNJ guild until the Calamity. A hyuran Hearer named Ingram held that responsibility if I remember correctly. There are many more Padjal off camera who wander the Wood and aid in quelling the Elementals. The only Padjal who are actually in authority are those on the Seedseer Council.

I don't think that "leadership" and "authority" can be confined to specific titles, though. Â If a Padjal walks up to a Forestborn and says something, the Forestborn will listen. Â There's a difference between Official Authority and social authority, and from what I can tell, Padjal have that social authority in spades. Â They are given great deference (and it seems like, in general, there is little to no questioning of Padjal or Hearers). Â Was this different in 1.0?

Quote:The Seedseer Council is made up of the guildmasters in Gridania and headed by the most prominent Padjal family. Currently, this is the Senna family with Kan-E-Senna as the Elder Seedseer. However, this is a recent change. Before the reformation of the Grand Companies of Eorzea in 1572, the Padjali Seedseers were not to be found in Gridania. They spent 100% of their time in the Wood, walking with the Elementals. For many Gridanians, Kan-E-Senna's public speech calling for the return of the Grand Companies was the first time they had seen the Elder Seedseer.

Question! Â If the Seedseer Council is made up of the guild leaders, why are A-Ruhn Senna and Raya-O Senna called the Seedseer Siblings or whatever? Â After going through the 2.0 questline, I was under the impression that they were the actual council (which rather gave me pause, since A-Ruhn is kind of a dickhead).

Edited to Add: Although, perusing your link about Kan-E Senna, it seems that Hearers form the Seedseer Council. Which makes me yet more confused. xD

Sounsyy · **09-12-2014, 11:02 AM**

(09-12-2014, 03:58 AM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: I don't think that "leadership" and "authority" can be confined to specific titles, though. Â If a Padjal walks up to a Forestborn and says something, the Forestborn will listen. Â There's a difference between Official Authority and social authority, and from what I can tell, Padjal have that social authority in spades. Â They are given great deference (and it seems like, in general, there is little to no questioning of Padjal or Hearers). Â Was this different in 1.0?

Yes and no. I definitely agree that most often if a Padjal asked something of a forestborn, that person would probably comply. As they are the channel between Man and Elemental, it'd be kind of silly not to. But Padjal don't often ask things of others or exert said authority. Which is the difference. (I guess that's what I was trying to say before?)

However, we do have a couple lore examples of Padjal being challenged on their "authority."

Vista #40 - Haukke Manor
"Long frowned upon by the people of Gridania as a symbol of excess, the Seedseers would finally submit to pressure from the citizenry, selling the deed to the manor to Lady Amandine of House Dartancours. The word "Haukke" is of ancient Padjali origin and means, "to speak without words."

From the 1.0 Order of the Twin Adder Page:
"The Order of the Twin Adder establishes a medium from which the Seedseers can return from their wanderings deep within the Black Shroud and directly oversee not only the safety of Gridania's citizens, but the workings of the local guard. Both the God's Quiver, who defend the forest from external threats, and the Wood Wailers, who protect it from internal strife, have expressed their support of this temporary measure. There are, however, those within Gridania who would question the ability of the Seedseers, whose duties until now have been limited to various ritualistic proceedings, and doubt whether or not they are fit to lead a nation into war."

Compare to the 2.0 Order of the Twin Adder Page:
"The Order of the Twin Adder...' '...have expressed their support of this temporary measure. Although they have proven their aptitude for handling political affairs in light of the Calamity and events that followed, there are still those within Gridania who would question the Seedseer's ability to lead a nation into war."

But aside from these examples, in the 1.0 Gridania Storyline Quest "Beckon of the Elementals" we eavesdrop in on a conversation between Bowlord Lewin and O-App-Pesi. In the cutscene, O-App defers to Lewin's judgement on the matters at hand. Also, a few cutscenes later when Yda and Papalymo are caught "red handed" at the burning tree, it is Lewin who stands the Wood Wailers down, not O-App.

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(09-12-2014, 03:58 AM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: Question! Â If the Seedseer Council is made up of the guild leaders, why are A-Ruhn Senna and Raya-O Senna called the Seedseer Siblings or whatever? Â After going through the 2.0 questline, I was under the impression that they were the actual council (which rather gave me pause, since A-Ruhn is kind of a dickhead).

This is an interesting question. Lore on this is kind of confusing for me as well. I might be wrong on this. I could've sworn in 1.0 that Bowlord Lewin and Swethyna show up at a Council gathering, however I can't seem to find the quest. Bleh.

Anyways, if the Seedseer Council is made up of only Hearers, it would need to be greater than just the Senna family, because the Senna family never really graced Gridania with their presence much before 1572. Kan-E-Senna's Twin Adder speech started off with an introduction of who she was to her people. And in "Imperial Devices" the Wood Wailers who survived Toto-Rak didn't even know who A-Ruhn-Senna was when he saved them. They just thought he was some batshit crazy Padjal wandering around Toto-Rak.

So I guess the Seedseer Council was made up entirely of Hearers from the Stillglade Fane meaning E-Sumi-Yan, O-App-Pesi, Telent, Morys, and Ingram.

As for why the Senna family is in control, I defer to this. Now, I'm not sure in what context "prominent" refers, as it could mean accomplished, oldest, or prominent number-wise, or combination of all three. Of which the Senna family is certainly the most prominent by that definition. So that is why the Senna siblings are heads of the Council. They are the most prominent Padjal family. But you are totally right, A-Ruhn is totally not cut out for leadership duties. Nor is Raya-O either, honestly. How did Gridania survive without Kan-E before 1572?? Poor E-Sumi had his work cut out for him...

LiadansWhisper · **09-12-2014, 12:27 PM**

This all makes me wonder if maybe the devs just forgot about certain details. Â Because even on their own pages, it seems like they contradict each other at times.

Roswyn · **09-14-2014, 03:40 AM**

*Looks for Liadan in thread*

[Image: nod-of-approval.gif]

*exits*

LiadansWhisper · **09-14-2014, 04:41 AM**

(09-14-2014, 03:40 AM)Roswyn Wrote: *Looks for Liadan in thread*

*exits*

DAMN YOU, WOMAN!

...also, one day I'ma find Sounsyy in the game so I can ask her allllllllllllllll of my maaaaaaaany lore questions.Â Bouncy

Aldotsk · **09-14-2014, 10:43 AM**

So I suppose Padjals lived in Amdapor Keep and Amdapor City until they messed up? Â Unless I am getting the story wrong here, since by my knowledge Seedseers/Padjals seem to be the ones who turned Amdapor into ruins.

LiadansWhisper · **09-14-2014, 11:06 AM**

(09-14-2014, 10:43 AM)Aldotsk Wrote: So I suppose Padjals lived in Amdapor Keep and Amdapor City until they messed up? Â Unless I am getting the story wrong here, since by my knowledge Seedseers/Padjals seem to be the ones who turned Amdapor into ruins.

Â
You're incorrect. Â Amdapor existed long before Gridania. Â In fact, the entire reason Gridania had such a hard time getting permission to exist from the Elementals is that Amdapor misused the power of White Magic, which eventually led to the Elementals flooding the world to save it from the destruction the Black and White Mages were causing, and they were the ones who grew the Shroud up over the city state itself. Â The Padjal had nothing at all to do with Amdapor's demise, and never resided in or were a part of the city-state since the Padjal did not exist at the time.

Aldotsk · **09-14-2014, 11:37 AM**

So wait, then who existed before? The Amdapor white mages or Allagan ancestors? I feel like they both were existing at same time period but I could be wrong.

LiadansWhisper · **09-14-2014, 11:50 AM**

(09-14-2014, 11:37 AM)Aldotsk Wrote: So wait, then who existed before? The Amdapor white mages or Allagan ancestors? I feel like they both were existing at same time period but I could be wrong.

Amdapor existed in the Fifth Astral Age, and they discovered White Magic but ultimately came to abuse it during the War of the Magi. Â This abuse is what sparked an Umbral Age and nearly destroyed the world. Â Because of their abuse, the Elementals flooded the world and covered Amdapor with the Shroud to prevent anyone else from learning White Magic.

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