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Akashi · **10-07-2010, 07:42 AM**

Just thought I'd drop this link here to open up a discussion on some of the finer and not so finer points of FFXIV with a review that I thought was pretty dead on, albiet a bit painful.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/finalfantasy14/review.html">http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/finalfan ... eview.html</a>

Do you think it is too late to fix some of these things?

Trizzip · **10-07-2010, 10:39 AM**

IMO, if they were going to make XIV so much more console friendly and less PC friendly......they probably should have released the game on the console first.....or at least at the same time. The fact that PC gamers are left with a console friendly MMO makes it understandable when they are frustrated with many of the features.

I'm still confident that by March, things will be going in the right direction.

Volkai · **10-07-2010, 10:43 AM**

Akashi Wrote:Just thought I'd drop this link here to open up a discussion on some of the finer and not so finer points of FFXIV with a review that I thought was pretty dead on, albiet a bit painful.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/finalfantasy14/review.html">http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/finalfan ... eview.html</a>

Do you think it is too late to fix some of these things?

Aside from Final Fantasy XI - which came out with a year's worth of updates and an expansion - I have yet to see a review of an initial-release MMO that was largely positive and at least nominally objective.

The first three months are almost always devoted to putting out fires and fixing unforeseen errors.

Anyone who draws immutable conclusions about the quality of the game at this point... probably shouldn't be playing an MMO.

Give it six months. Normally I would say three, but XIV may take extra time to get everything fixed since the devs are still working on getting the game to work on the PS3 and its 256MB RAM + 256MB VRAM where it's running on PC with >1535MB RAM + >511MB VRAM. Or >2047MB RAM + >511MB VRAM for Vista/7 version.

Akashi · **10-07-2010, 11:23 AM**

The first impression is usually a bad one for all MMOs at launch I agree, but I have never experienced one quite this bad. A lot of the problems are concerning the game design itself, and the major ones at that: not how rough around the edges it is.

Asyria · **10-07-2010, 01:02 PM**

I still don't understand why everyone calls it Console-friendly and am beggining to suspect it's just a pretty bandwagon that people jump in.
It's less console-friendly than CO (which was made in the optic that the future of mmorpg's was in the consoleS)
It's just Final Fantasy-esque to me. And Final Fantasy happens to be a console RPG series. I find the control to be very easy on keyboard and even mouse now that they have hardware mouse.
Is it the menus? I've seen other computer games with layered menus, just not usually mmo's...

ArmachiA · **10-07-2010, 01:53 PM**

The review had fair points. Whether or not we like the game, some of the things they left out (Auction House, Mail system, Chocobos, more quests) is just inexcusable and should have been there from release. I mean, that MMO 101 right there.

The Japanese people are even giving it poor reviews (An average of 1.5 stars on Amazon.co.jp) so hopefully this changes soon.

SE for a huge video game company you sure can be clueless sometimes.

Akashi · **10-07-2010, 02:09 PM**

ArmachiA Wrote:The review had fair points. Whether or not we like the game, some of the things they left out (Auction House, Mail system, Chocobos, more quests) is just inexcusable and should have been there from release. I mean, that MMO 101 right there.

The Japanese people are even giving it poor reviews (An average of 1.5 stars on Amazon.co.jp) so hopefully this changes soon.

SE for a huge video game company you sure can be clueless sometimes.

*Spits out tea* 1.5 stars on a Japanese site? :o Hopefully that is a big motivator for SE.

Satisiun · **10-07-2010, 02:16 PM**

ArmachiA Wrote:The review had fair points. Whether or not we like the game, some of the things they left out (Auction House, Mail system, Chocobos, more quests) is just inexcusable and should have been there from release. I mean, that MMO 101 right there.

I can't help but feel as if this whole mess is due to a rush to get the game out to market before Cataclysm came on to the scene during the holidays. If that was the case, it is sort of a catch 22, isn't it? Beat Cata, but have a real piece of barebones shit that is missing the most simplest of things (by the way, people who use the excuse "Well FFXI didn't have everything at the start either!" need to be dragged out and shot. It's 2010, not 2001). Don't beat Cata, and everyone is busily grinding away on the game that is basically an electronic form of crack for online gamers and unwilling to give XIV a spin.

Bear in mind that is total, unadulterated speculation right there. And although I did call FFXIV what I did call it in that last paragraph, I'm still getting enough mileage out of it and, yes, enjoyment, that I foresee hanging on -- albeit by the skin of my teeth -- until the holidays to see if they can pull this game out of a nosedive in the content/ease of use department.

Figure the benefit of the doubt is deserved since I really enjoyed FFXI.

Zyrusticae · **10-07-2010, 02:41 PM**

Just because I found this hilarious:
APB: 6.5
FFXIV: 4.0

...For the record, I agree with this assessment. Oddly enough, in both cases, I am somewhat willing to overlook the flaws because I find something about it engaging (the customization in the former and the atmosphere in the latter). That being said, there is only room for one MMO in my life atm and chances are FFXIV is going to lose out...

Edit: Of interest may be this post-launch Aion review: Assault on Balaurea
vs.
Launch review
Showing how much a game can improve over time. If Squeenix takes the feedback seriously, hopefully they will have similar results.

ArmachiA · **10-07-2010, 03:21 PM**

Satisiun Wrote:
ArmachiA Wrote:The review had fair points. Whether or not we like the game, some of the things they left out (Auction House, Mail system, Chocobos, more quests) is just inexcusable and should have been there from release. I mean, that MMO 101 right there.

I can't help but feel as if this whole mess is due to a rush to get the game out to market before Cataclysm came on to the scene during the holidays. If that was the case, it is sort of a catch 22, isn't it? Beat Cata, but have a real piece of barebones shit that is missing the most simplest of things (by the way, people who use the excuse "Well FFXI didn't have everything at the start either!" need to be dragged out and shot. It's 2010, not 2001). Don't beat Cata, and everyone is busily grinding away on the game that is basically an electronic form of crack for online gamers and unwilling to give XIV a spin.

Bear in mind that is total, unadulterated speculation right there. And although I did call FFXIV what I did call it in that last paragraph, I'm still getting enough mileage out of it and, yes, enjoyment, that I foresee hanging on -- albeit by the skin of my teeth -- until the holidays to see if they can pull this game out of a nosedive in the content/ease of use department.

Figure the benefit of the doubt is deserved since I really enjoyed FFXI.

This is pretty much exactly what happened. Back in E3 '09 two MMO's were announced for release at the end of the year of 2010: FFXIV and TOR. They thought they were pretty much safe, Cataclysm was announced to launch on the same day as Star Craft II. But Blizzard, being the "It's done when it's done" types, weren't ready to release it on SC II's release date, and changed the date to November.

When that was announced, SE and Bioware released their official dates: SE for Sept 2010, and Bioware for early 2011. Bioware pushed back the date and SE pushed forward, both of them avoiding Cataclysm all together.

FFXIV could have used some more time before release, it's pretty apparent, we're really just playing Beta right now. However, I think we'll probably see one of their big updates around the time Cataclysm comes out, if not sooner.

Siben · **10-07-2010, 04:06 PM**

the Gamespot review is a fair cop. I don't think any of us are holding onto any delusions that this game is anywhere north of a 4 or 5 on a 10 point scale. All I can say though, is they better drag their asses on getting some sort of patch out, just to prove to the community that they #1 actually care about the play experience and #2 are going to take a proactive role in making this game worth the money.

I still find myself marveling at exactly how many departments this game is lacking in. When Wizard 101 has you beat on features and gameplay... ;x

Freyar · **10-07-2010, 04:12 PM**

I talk to Kevin VanOrd myself quite often. I trust his opinion as that, an opinion.

FFXIV holds the same space APB did. I like it, but it needs work and needs it bad.

Tagyr · **10-07-2010, 05:27 PM**

They should have just released both the PS3 and PC versions at the same date. Even if it was next year. Taking the time to have a good long testing phase.

Like it has been said, this is pretty much beta. Still full of glitches. I've been unable to get on my main account for 3 days now and the responses SE has given have not even scratched it.

Sweet Spirit · **10-07-2010, 09:44 PM**

Volkai Wrote:
Akashi Wrote:Just thought I'd drop this link here to open up a discussion on some of the finer and not so finer points of FFXIV with a review that I thought was pretty dead on, albiet a bit painful.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/finalfantasy14/review.html">http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/finalfan ... eview.html</a>

Do you think it is too late to fix some of these things?
Aside from Final Fantasy XI - which came out with a year's worth of updates and an expansion - I have yet to see a review of an initial-release MMO that was largely positive and at least nominally objective.

The first three months are almost always devoted to putting out fires and fixing unforeseen errors.

Anyone who draws immutable conclusions about the quality of the game at this point... probably shouldn't be playing an MMO.

Give it six months. Normally I would say three, but XIV may take extra time to get everything fixed since the devs are still working on getting the game to work on the PS3 and its 256MB RAM + 256MB VRAM where it's running on PC with >1535MB RAM + >511MB VRAM. Or >2047MB RAM + >511MB VRAM for Vista/7 version.

I sure hope so. I heard about a rumor that APB was completely shut down simply because they found some huge issue with the way the game was designed. Is that true? O.o Because it makes me worry about any other future MMOs if that happens to be true...

Zeah · **10-08-2010, 02:26 AM**

I agree pretty much with what's already been said. I don't understand how you can review an MMO a week after launch and feel confident it will be accurate even after the first update.

I think most of us came from an FFXI background, and if you were like me who played the game before CoP was released, and continued to play all the way up until (for me) Crystalline Prophecies, you'll know how many changes, how many hours worth of updates, maintenances, and tweaks the game has gone through. And some of them were quite major and reshaped the entire game play. (Mobs de-spawning at the zone, Paladins getting their own provoke, merit system, ect.ect.)

I think that's why I enjoy MMOs so much. Granted nowadays Console games do have patches here and there.. but they're not patches like an MMO patch. XIV is, and will continue to be, an ever-changing game. To review it at all is very difficult. And I wouldn't even bother to review it until at least 4 to 6 months after release, when all of the kinks and things have been worked out of it.

As far as them trying to beat-out Cataclysm.. Eh.. There's a difference between a game launch, and the release of an expansion pack. To me, if they were trying to compete with Cata, I think it's silly and ill-advised to push for an earlier release just to get it out there. However, if SE plays it right, they might have a decently comparable game come Cata release (in December or something..?)

Despite all this, I do think SE suffered some major brain-farts while deciding to release this game. I can live without the auction house, the chocobos ect.. what I don't understand, mainly, is the lack of configuration the game has, and the lack of just..common "DURR" things that should have been fixed. (chat text limit, certain configuration options like font colors, chat tabs, window style ect.ect.)

As far as the game being "console-made".. I really don't see it. Honestly. Granted, I played FFXI for years on the PS2 and then switched over to 360 (I didn't have the computer I have now at the time) I'm sort of biased when it comes to controllers anyway. And yes, the 2nd day I had XIV I ran to BestBuy and bought myself a USB controller. However.. From what I saw while playing, the interface is..pretty...similar.. to XI's PC interface, though I only had the chance to play on PC a handful of times, so I could be incredibly wrong. But everything seemed to be the same buttons I remember using.. because if they hadn't been, trust me I would have been really stupid with the game. ("WHERE'S THE MENU BUTTON!? AAHH")

I don't really know why SE didn't start XIV off with at least most if not all of XI's features to begin with. If I were going to make a sequel MMO to one of the MMO's I've been perfecting for years and years and years, I think the best starting point would be exactly where we left off. I dunno though, I'm not a game developer, so who knows they may have run into complications or some other excuse that prevented them from implementing these features right away.. but.. I'm still sort of grumbling to myself at certain things like everyone else.

I tell my friends this often about FFXI-- If there's one thing it taught me in life, it's how to be patient...

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