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Warren Castille · **03-17-2015, 02:27 PM**

(03-17-2015, 02:26 PM)Zyrusticae Wrote:
(03-17-2015, 02:14 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: "Cave in" to what, precisely?
Cave in to demands by the player base for more effeminate, cute, conventionally attractive girly-girls?

I thought that was obvious?

Giving people what they ask for isn't "caving in." It's giving people what they ask for. You know, good customer service.

Flickering Ember · **03-17-2015, 02:27 PM**

(03-17-2015, 02:10 PM)K Wrote: There will be naysayers no matter what side they went with. Au Ra were a highly anticipated race, it was in everyones' best interests that they make bother genders as appealing as possible to as many people as possible.

Anyways, the height/build discrepancy is quite interesting in a way. It's reminiscent ofÂ certain types of animals/mammals and insects out there.

I was a little hesitant to talk more about Au Ra since this thread isn't really about them....But I'll take a moment to share a thought that hopefully doesn't make the thread go too off-topic.

Interestingly, female roegadyn are the only gender/race with a height min/max higher than 4-5 inches. Female roegadyn have an entire FOOT in height range. While I love thick, muscled, badass women, I was anticipating Au Ra for their dragon/reptilian themes. I don't mind their doe-eyed looks as much as I do their height difference. I know some folks like it but I don't. They look like children next to the men. It's the same reason why some folks don't like lalafells pairing with other races.

However, the fact that female roegadyns have such a huge height range gives me hope for a tall female Au Ra. So pumped for Benchmark! (And a big height range would give a little something for everyone too! Smile

)

Zyrusticae · **03-17-2015, 02:30 PM**

(03-17-2015, 02:27 PM)Warren Castille Wrote:
(03-17-2015, 02:26 PM)Zyrusticae Wrote:
(03-17-2015, 02:14 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: "Cave in" to what, precisely?
Cave in to demands by the player base for more effeminate, cute, conventionally attractive girly-girls?

I thought that was obvious?

Giving people what they ask for isn't "caving in." It's giving people what they ask for. You know, good customer service.

"Giving people what they ask for" can itself be considered "caving in".

This is all silly semantics anyway, I don't really see the point of this conversation.

Dogberry · **03-17-2015, 02:31 PM**

(03-17-2015, 02:26 PM)Zyrusticae Wrote:
(03-17-2015, 02:14 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: "Cave in" to what, precisely?
Cave in to demands by the player base for more effeminate, cute, conventionally attractive girly-girls?

I thought that was obvious?

As opposed to when they "caved in" and gave us the female roegadyns we love so much?

Warren Castille · **03-17-2015, 02:32 PM**

(03-17-2015, 02:30 PM)Zyrusticae Wrote:
(03-17-2015, 02:27 PM)Warren Castille Wrote:
(03-17-2015, 02:26 PM)Zyrusticae Wrote:
(03-17-2015, 02:14 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: "Cave in" to what, precisely?
Cave in to demands by the player base for more effeminate, cute, conventionally attractive girly-girls?

I thought that was obvious?

Giving people what they ask for isn't "caving in." It's giving people what they ask for. You know, good customer service.
"Giving people what they ask for" can itself be considered "caving in".

This is all silly semantics anyway, I don't really see the point of this conversation.

I don't think we live on the same planet sometimes.

Berrod Armstrong · **03-17-2015, 02:37 PM**

Giving people what they want -- people who are paying for the product, mind you, is not 'caving in'. When the ice cream vendor gives me the rainbow sprinkles I asked for on my sundae, they aren't 'caving in'. They're rendering me a service.Â
Not to mention, we have options. You can be a cat-girl. You can be a potato girl. You can be a little human-chan, a big human-chan, or run around with the body of a Williams sister. Adding petite dragon-succubus-chan to that as well, things are looking pretty decent!

Edit: I forgot gangly long-necked-chan!

Melkire · **03-17-2015, 02:38 PM**

All I'm gonna say in this thread is THIS IS WHAT I WISH WE'D GOTTEN, FOR MALE AND FEMALE ALIKE:

[Image: Bangaa_races.JPG]

Also to remind everyone to keep this a civil conversation. No inflammatory remarks or backhanded comments. Thank you.

Zyrusticae · **03-17-2015, 02:39 PM**

(03-17-2015, 02:31 PM)Dogberry Wrote: As opposed to when they "caved in" and gave us the female roegadyns we love so much?

I don't know what exactly their mindset was when they added them, but the fact was that there was an obvious hole there and there was no existing metric to suggest that they would be unpopular so they added them as they are now.

The fact that they're now using metrics to go in the other, more popular direction is indicative of a change. One that I, at least, find unwelcome.

Fortunately, I am in the really extreme minority on this one, so the majority that's being serviced can go on being pleased. And hopefully everyone rerolls Au Ra so I can feel special.

K'nahli · **03-17-2015, 02:40 PM**

(03-17-2015, 02:27 PM)Flickering Ember Wrote:
(03-17-2015, 02:10 PM)K Wrote: There will be naysayers no matter what side they went with. Au Ra were a highly anticipated race, it was in everyones' best interests that they make bother genders as appealing as possible to as many people as possible.

Anyways, the height/build discrepancy is quite interesting in a way. It's reminiscent ofÂ certain types of animals/mammals and insects out there.

I was a little hesitant to talk more about Au Ra since this thread isn't really about them....But I'll take a moment to share a thought that hopefully doesn't make the thread go too off-topic.

Interestingly, female roegadyn are the only gender/race with a height min/max higher than 4-5 inches. Female roegadyn have an entire FOOT in height range. While I love thick, muscled, badass women, I was anticipating Au Ra for their dragon/reptilian themes. I don't mind their doe-eyed looks as much as I do their height difference. I know some folks like it but I don't. They look like children next to the men. It's the same reason why some folks don't like lalafells pairing with other races.

However, the fact that female roegadyns have such a huge height range gives me hope for a tall female Au Ra. So pumped for Benchmark! (And a big height range would give a little something for everyone too! )

It's still in line with the theme of the topic, so as long as Seriphyn doesn't mind then I think it should be okay.

Not to discredit your own opinion and feelings on height of course, but I honestly don't see that much a problem with it personally - not in a personal taste sense, but it just isn't that significant even objectively speaking, at least to me. The females still make it to shoulder-height against the males assuming you don't use a taller and/or shorter female/male and that's totally fine with me. Why exactly should all of the genders in each race conform to a similar height criteria? It makes the Au Ra more different and unique that way.

I completely disagree on the female looking like children though, haha... and even more that you would compare that to the situation with lalas!!!11!

Zyrusticae · **03-17-2015, 02:44 PM**

(03-17-2015, 02:37 PM)Berrod Armstrong Wrote: Giving people what they want -- people who are paying for the product, mind you, is not 'caving in'. When the ice cream vendor gives me the rainbow sprinkles I asked for on my sundae, they aren't 'caving in'. They're rendering me a service.Â
Not to mention, we have options. You can be a cat-girl. You can be a potato girl. You can be a little human-chan, a big human-chan, or run around with the body of a Williams sister. Adding petite dragon-succubus-chan to that as well, things are looking pretty decent!

Edit: I forgot gangly long-necked-chan!

See, there's this thing called 'integrity' that I happen to value above and beyond mere profit motives and is especially applicable to fictional universes with an internal logic and history that should, hopefully, presumably make sense once everything is all put together, and hewing towards marketing-directed designs goes fully against that particular value of mine. Hence, I consider caving into marketing and the almighty dollar exactly that.

It's a damn good thing I don't run the company! As you all say, they are a business being run as a business, so they'll do whatever they have to to keep the company afloat. As a customer, I don't have to share any of those values whatsoever, and frankly I don't care about the justifications that people use to apologize for the company's decisions.

Dogberry · **03-17-2015, 02:46 PM**

(03-17-2015, 02:39 PM)Zyrusticae Wrote:
(03-17-2015, 02:31 PM)Dogberry Wrote: As opposed to when they "caved in" and gave us the female roegadyns we love so much?
I don't know what exactly their mindset was when they added them, but the fact was that there was an obvious hole there and there was no existing metric to suggest that they would be unpopular so they added them as they are now.

This history was that people asked for them a lot. And male miqo'te.

Flashhelix · **03-17-2015, 02:47 PM**

not tiny:

tiny:

[Image: stock-photo-21598864-excited-senior-man-...-money.jpg]

the weebs have spoken

Warren Castille · **03-17-2015, 02:49 PM**

Quote:See, there's this thing called 'integrity' that I happen to value above and beyond mere profit motives and is especially applicable to fictional universes with an internal logic and history that should, hopefully, presumably make sense once everything is all put together, and hewing towards marketing-directed designs goes fully against that particular value of mine. Hence, I consider caving into marketing and the almighty dollar exactly that.

It's a damn good thing I don't run the company! As you all say, they are a business being run as a business, so they'll do whatever they have to to keep the company afloat. As a customer, I don't have to share any of those values whatsoever, and frankly I don't care about the justifications that people use to apologize for the company's decisions.

There's an interview where Yoshi admits that the Au Ra design was finalized prior to 2.2. Stop undermining the director's artistic integrity by thinking it was purely a business decision. If you are so offended, I implore you to vote with your wallet.

Your integrity has absolutely no volume in this discussion. SE made the decision, and by placing yourself on a pedestal above them by admonishing their decision to make what they wanted to, you're not doing anything constructive or productive.

Berrod Armstrong · **03-17-2015, 02:53 PM**

(03-17-2015, 02:44 PM)Zyrusticae Wrote:
(03-17-2015, 02:37 PM)Berrod Armstrong Wrote: Giving people what they want -- people who are paying for the product, mind you, is not 'caving in'. When the ice cream vendor gives me the rainbow sprinkles I asked for on my sundae, they aren't 'caving in'. They're rendering me a service.Â
Not to mention, we have options. You can be a cat-girl. You can be a potato girl. You can be a little human-chan, a big human-chan, or run around with the body of a Williams sister. Adding petite dragon-succubus-chan to that as well, things are looking pretty decent!

Edit: I forgot gangly long-necked-chan!
See, there's this thing called 'integrity' that I happen to value above and beyond mere profit motives and is especially applicable to fictional universes with an internal logic and history that should, hopefully, presumably make sense once everything is all put together, and hewing towards marketing-directed designs goes fully against that particular value of mine. Hence, I consider caving into marketing and the almighty dollar exactly that.

It's a damn good thing I don't run the company! As you all say, they are a business being run as a business, so they'll do whatever they have to to keep the company afloat. As a customer, I don't have to share any of those values whatsoever, and frankly I don't care about the justifications that people use to apologize for the company's decisions.

This view is -- my apologies -- completely laughable and very idealistically naiive -- not to mention TERRIBLE for any business in particular. I agree, it really IS a good thing you don't run the company! Hewing toward marketing directed designs is just one of the ways they actually keep the game in existence. Not to mention that there is a variety of designs (that fits the world lore, since the 'bestial' races are largely unplayable factions) available for us to choose from.Â

I don't know what's being read or seen here, but nobody's apologizing for Square's decisions. Applauding them, understanding them, running with them, sure. The game is giving most of us what we want! For those of us who aren't getting what we want, there are other options out there, and avenues where we can voice our desires in the hopes that they'll be catered to.Â

I won't yell at my ice cream vendor about integrity if all he has is rainbow sprinkles. I mean, only one kid in the whole town likes the chocolate ones. But who knows, if that kid asks nicely and often enough, the vendor might stock a container of chocolate sprinkles just for them someday.

Aya · **03-17-2015, 02:54 PM**

There was never really any doubt as to why they made the Au Ra females so ridiculous, but it is disappointing to learn that they considered a more reasonable take and declined because of their view of what the player base would want.

I disagree that making the new female race conventionally attractive is "giving the player base what it wants", in the sense that there already are conventionally attractive female options.Â It was a decision made because they want Au Ra females to be popular with that portion of the player base.Â That's really a bit of a different decision.Â They could have designed Au Ra in line with their original intent without it being bad customer service, and without reducing players' options.

I'm not saying its a good, or a bad one (though I do seem to recall saying early on that I assumed it would be a good decision using SE's own criteria), I'm just pointing out that its not so simple.

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Too much woman to handle?

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes