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ArmachiA · **05-07-2015, 03:24 AM**

(05-07-2015, 02:32 AM)KitKat Wrote: And once again, this "community" proves that it's not actually a community at all. Real proud of you.

Please tell me how I, someone who believes 100% that PCs cannot be White Mages, and you, someone who 100% believes it doesn't matter can come together and come to an agreement beyond going to our respective corners and leaving each other to rp in peace.

I'm not going to force you to see my view on it - which is, in lore says only Padjal can be WHMs, are you going to force me to see yours - which is game mechanics means we should be able to play whatever we like?

Blue · **05-07-2015, 03:31 AM**

I completely agree with this. There is always room for exceptions in the universe of Eorzea. I mean, look at Lucia. Had she been a RPer instead of an NPC, how much bashing would she have received for claiming to be Ishgardian? Or in the Temple Knights? Ew no, Ishgard would never accept a Garlean!

I understand that there is a general etiquette of "everyone wants to be special, so no one can be special" among the RP community, but not everyone is going to comply to that, and we have to accept it. The grief towards RPers who are not "perfectly normal" in every singular aspect of their IC background, appearance, behavior, occupation, whatchamacallit is completely unjustified and I dislike it even more when people use IC dialogues to point out at it.

I have been ICly yelled at for being inside the Quicksands as a commoner because the guy said "it was for adventurers only", and that even though I was there to HIRE adventurers, he told me I was supposed to assign my pledge to the Leve counter and leave. Yeah right, how am I even supposed to do that? It's not like I can actually leave a banner on the counter for people to see and get back to me.

"Do it on the forums."

And cut out the majority of RPers? Only an abysmal part of us uses these boards, or any boards.

But yeah, all in all, there is a thousand things I could point out ICly that I find wrong (non-virgin spouses marrying in white dress, guests at weddings wearing wedding dresses themselves, or even just couples marrying after only weeks or months of relationship, just to bring up one single topic (Eternal Bonding) ), but would I bring it up ICly with them? No. Why? Because if someone did that to me I'd find that terribly annoying and pedantic.

Don't treat others the way you don't want to be treated. It couldn't be any easier than that.

EDIT: It took me a bit to think of the right metaphor, but in the end, to be "the perfect RP character" is much like being "beach body ready".

[Image: Protein-Worlds-beach-body-006.jpg]

[Image: Protein-Worlds-beach-body-006.jpg]

The truth is, there is no beach body ready, and there is no perfect RP character. Whether you are fat or thin, or super lore restricted or more "lore exceptional", there is always someone who will criticize you. There is always something you are doing that someone else will not like, so let us avoid run our mouth on others, especially IC, thinking that we are better in our choices for our character than they are.

"Have you seen how fat she is? And she comes at the beach? She should be ashamed."

"Oh Gods, look at how thin she is, and she comes at the beach. She's calling for attention sooo bad."

The only requirement to be beach body ready is to be at the beach.
The only requirement to be a roleplayer is to roleplay.

Seriphyn · **05-07-2015, 04:02 AM**

I mean, seriously, even if x's character was a white mage, I'd still RP with them. I'd just be selective and discretionary about what territory we RP into. Why would I deny myself fun?

Verad · **05-07-2015, 04:04 AM**

(05-07-2015, 03:24 AM)ArmachiA Wrote:
(05-07-2015, 02:32 AM)KitKat Wrote: And once again, this "community" proves that it's not actually a community at all. Real proud of you.

Please tell me how I, someone who believes 100% that PCs cannot be White Mages, and you, someone who 100% believes it doesn't matter can come together and come to an agreement beyond going to our respective corners and leaving each other to rp in peace.

I'm not going to force you to see my view on it - which is, in lore says only Padjal can be WHMs, are you going to force me to see yours - which is game mechanics means we should be able to play whatever we like?

You play a WHM and see what all the fuss is about. Somebody else downgrades to Conjurer to see if it's similar in style.

Hopefully perspective is gained. Probably one or both participants just feel dirty.

Fox · **05-07-2015, 04:14 AM**

(05-07-2015, 03:24 AM)ArmachiA Wrote:
(05-07-2015, 02:32 AM)KitKat Wrote: And once again, this "community" proves that it's not actually a community at all. Real proud of you.

I'm not going to force you to see my view on it - which is, in lore says only Padjal can be WHMs, are you going to force me to see yours - which is game mechanics means we should be able to play whatever we like?

But... Isn't that forcing your view on them regardless?
I mean you say that you aren't going to force your view onto them which is 'x lore says this'. Then you ask them if they are going to force their view onto you, which is 'we should be able to play whatever we like'?

If they say 'no' they aren't going to force it on you, then that disables them from allowing to play what they wish to. And thus forces your view onto them. If they say 'I'm going to play what I want' then it's forcing it onto you.

I mean that's sort of making them damned if they do damned if they don't sort of thing there. Maybe I'm reading it off but yeah, that's just my two cents.

--------
But to get onto the whole topic;
I'd have to agree with Blue above me on this issue.

Quote:Don't treat others the way you don't want to be treated. It couldn't be any easier than that.

Really if people don't agree with another person's view of the lore, just don't rp with them. I don't understand the need to police other peoples' rp. Nor do I understand the need to tear someone apart over it. I don't like lore breaking myself, but eh... I'm not going to let it bother me really. I've a lot of other things I can do than to be upset if someone plays X thing I don't agree with.

Sure there a lot of stuff I don't agree with; I like keeping lore-plausible, but I'm not going to tell someone what they can and cannot RP. I just won't involve myself really. Or my character might think them a bit nutty. If it's really outrageous, trolly for whatever reason though-? I'd very likely excuse my character out of the area.

At the end of the day, we're all awesome nerds playing nerd things in a nerd-centric world. Wink

ArmachiA · **05-07-2015, 05:19 AM**

The only time anything is forced into anything is saying "You need to rp the way I want and with me for reasons." Disagreement isn't forcing anything, however trying to get you to play in the same sandbox as me is forcing the issue. We can all walk away stating our opinions, rping with who we want to rp with - who agree with our point of view - without stating the community needs to act a certain way even if we disagree on the way the how the community "should" act.

There's plenty of room for ALL kinds of rpers here, just because we don't agree, doesn't mean we can't rp peacefully

Gone. · **05-07-2015, 06:07 AM**

(05-05-2015, 02:50 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: This is incorrect and takes away from your whole dialogue.

It... really isn't?

Denying a roleplayer's IC existence is something that will always have OOC implications, plain and simple. To ignore this is a sign of someone that doesn't understand the power and effects our words can have on another and I suggest that anyone who does really needs to pull back and think about what they're saying before it comes out of their mouth.

(05-05-2015, 04:38 PM)Verad Wrote: I'm more interested in the following: It's one thing for people to make claims about certain characters, and to write them off as insane or delusional or whatever. I'm not one-hundred percent on-board with that particular choice but I recognize it's a valid one.

What do you, however, when the player proves it through some metaphysical means? Some dimensional traveller, to use Klin's example, leaps into another Final Fantasy setting in front of you and comes back with Shantotto. Somebody claiming to be a primal manifests as such in front of you. For the more hardline lore-hounds, a WHM casts Succor or Holy. In short, something that would have a tangible effect on the world and can't be denied by a simple claim of insanity.

It's possible to retcon the matter and say that the person only saidÂ they did these things, and it didn't actually happen, but that's very much not letting the character lead; it's making an OOC judgment call in the moment and declaring that a fact stated by another player isn't actually a fact. On the other hand, taking the claim on faith and reacting to it means having to grapple with denying it IC at a later date. How do you address this problem?

I think addressing a situation like this really depends on the context. I would never deny a White Mage using something like Holy to protect a skeptic in the wild from one of the countless dangers of Eorzea, but to use those powers as a glorified parlor trick is another story. White Magic is currently a taboo; that's not the kind of attention a White Mage wants, at least not one that acquired their powers through legitimate means. In this case, I'd think it'd be better to politely point out these lore points to the player in question. Turn it into a discussion that can better their understanding of the game world as opposed to going straight for blind hostility.

As for me? If it's not harming anyone, then frankly it's none of my business, or anyone else's for that matter. There's very little I won't roll with and my exceptions are reserved only for those situations that are just so far-fetched that they enter the realm of F-grade fan fiction from the deepest, darkest depths of the internet. Either that or it's someone approaching a sensitive subject in a disrespectful and insensitive sort of manner (i.e. sexual assault, LGBT issues, etc.)

(05-07-2015, 01:51 AM)Seriphyn Wrote: Because my particular interpretation of the lore doesn't make room for the idea that PCs can be white mages (though I haven't actually encountered white mages in-character yet, nor would Kale really know what they are).

I'm not going to start shit over it, so likewise, I shouldn't expect to have a different interpretation of the lore forced on me where PCs -are- allowed to be white mages.

(05-07-2015, 03:24 AM)ArmachiA Wrote: I'm not going to force you to see my view on it - which is, in lore says only Padjal can be WHMs, are you going to force me to see yours - which is game mechanics means we should be able to play whatever we like?

Having your interpretation is fine, but when it creates a hostile, dismissive environment, when it flat out ignores in-game dialog, that's when I'm going to take issue.

No, seriously, saying that someone can't be a White Mage goes straight against what's said towards the end of the first job quest:

Show Content

Not exactly flattering for a community that has this tendency to place far too much value on pre-determined questlines over more important things.

(05-07-2015, 03:24 AM)ArmachiA Wrote: Please tell me how I, someone who believes 100% that PCs cannot be White Mages, and you, someone who 100% believes it doesn't matter can come together and come to an agreement beyond going to our respective corners and leaving each other to rp in peace.

You could start by sitting down and asking questions. Try to understand the why behind that choice, the subtext it's intended to build and how it shapes the character in question as they evolve through subsequent events and interactions.

I mean, isn't that what storytelling is all about, anyway?

Aduu Avagnar · **05-07-2015, 06:26 AM**

can we not turn this into yet another WHM thread please?

this is about responding to RP that people don't agree with. Which can, and does happen. Not about interpretations of lore regarding the Jobs.

if you don't like the way the RP is going, back off, leave it be. Don't kick a shit and cause an argument. People will have disagreements.

Cailean Lockwood · **05-07-2015, 06:28 AM**

(05-07-2015, 06:26 AM)Nako Wrote: can we not turn this into yet another WHM thread please?

this is about responding to RP that people don't agree with. Which can, and does happen. Not about interpretations of lore regarding the Jobs.

if you don't like the way the RP is going, back off, leave it be. Don't kick a shit and cause an argument. People will have disagreements.

Exactly this!

Askier · **05-07-2015, 07:05 AM**

You gotta live and let live baby.

People are here to rp and have a good time. And we all have different versions of "a good time."

Some people love dat ERP, so let 'em.

Some people love to have deep, complex plots that span months of real world time. *Stares wide eyed and Roen and Nero*

Some people just want to kick ass and take names, hence why the Grindstone is so huge all the time.

Point is, everyone is writing basically fan fiction, and you will not agree with everyone's fan fiction.Â Honestly, I think Warren has a great idea.Â

For example, if I come across someone who doesn't believe something my character has done and calls them a looney IC, I'm just going to rp they are drunk or disillusion and kindly excuse myself IC from them.Â No need to throw an OOC issue.

And if someone makes an outlandish claim, like saying a bunch of Garlean Airships blew up Ul'dah or something and I'm in Ul'dah, which in my universe is fine, I'm simply gonna have my character look around and shrug and roleplay that my character thinks the other character is crazy. I'm still getting to roleplay a brief scene but I'm not attacking anyone's version or their story OOC.Â People have a right to write their fan fic, so let them.Â Just cause they wrote it, don't mean you gotta treat it as the golden writ from the hand of God themself.Â RP fun. It's a game.Â Its made of 1's and 0's.Â It could all get deleted tomorrow by a solar flare.

So have with it and don't waste your time hatin'.

Warren Castille · **05-07-2015, 07:22 AM**

(05-07-2015, 06:07 AM)hauntmedoitagain Wrote:
(05-05-2015, 02:50 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: This is incorrect and takes away from your whole dialogue.

It... really isn't?

Denying a roleplayer's IC existence is something that will always have OOC implications, plain and simple. To ignore this is a sign of someone that doesn't understand the power and effects our words can have on another and I suggest that anyone who does really needs to pull back and think about what they're saying before it comes out of their mouth.

Except that's still wrong. Not every disagreement ICly is some staggering social commentary. Read what I quoted again: OP makes it sound like EVERY instance of someone grousing with you ICly is someone being assblasted OOCly. That's wrong, plain and simple.

If you're so sensitive that any IC criticism is automatically assumed to come from a place of player-to-player contention, you should reassess the reasons you're RPing.

Edit, attempt to clarify: Warren's been given a lot of shit in RP. I've also been told by one particular stick in the mud that my concept was wrong (Can we stop using Lion-O as an example? He's a troll, it is known). I've been slapped ICly for... whatever reason. I've been spit on. I've had people pick fights. All of this was IC, and not once did I presume that it was because of OOC emotions.

To assume that IC=OOC means that you assume your character concept is so solid and so correct that no one would ever take umbrage with it. This is the first error: Someone doesn't believe I'm an Immortal Flame, so clearly they're butthurt OOCly and reflecting that ICly. Someone doesn't believe I fell in love with a Padjal and learned Succor in the wild, so anything they say is wrong. Someone doesn't believe X about my concept, so clearly the backlash is because Y.

That's wrong. It's an incorrect assumption that dismisses not only IC interaction ("This guy is clearly just a troll") but it also makes you look really, really bad OOCly, as in "This person is incapable of accepting that their story stretches elements of the plot so thin that it collapses immersion for anyone approaching them."

If my backstory is that Warren is the sole survivor of a daring Garlean raid on Ul'dah that killed thousands and he is imbued with the souls of all of the deceased and he once fought the new Emperor when they were kids and that's the REAL reason Garlemald is invading, I can't just assume people who deny that are haters. That's so arrogant, so colossally stuck up, my brain can't even fathom it.

Kellach Woods · **05-07-2015, 07:55 AM**

I've yet to see anyone who completely said fuck the lore not being disrespectful towards anyone who is lore compliant. Nor have I seen a special snowflake who didn't want to lord it over other RPers either.

That's great if you have encountered these people. I haven't.

Warren Castille · **05-07-2015, 08:00 AM**

(05-07-2015, 07:55 AM)Kellach Woods Wrote: I've yet to see anyone who completely said fuck the lore not being disrespectful towards anyone who is lore compliant. Nor have I seen a special snowflake who didn't want to lord it over other RPers either.

That's great if you have encountered these people. I haven't.

That's probably the most insightful thing about this all. By and large, people bumping heads on this won't ever run into one another. It's not really an issue, but it could be, so we've all got to get our dander up about it.

PEOPLE I'VE NEVER MET WHO I MIGHT NEVER MEET MIGHT NOT APPROVE OF ME, THE HORROR

Desu Nee · **05-07-2015, 08:51 AM**

At this point I'm actually confused what we're talking at all. I don't mean to detract from the talk, but honestly, what ARE we talking about?

Aaron · **05-07-2015, 08:57 AM**

At this rate it's going to get to people arguing over why everyone can teleport because not everyone can do it in reality.Â

Or why are you wearing the WoD gear.

Or why do you have a demon brick following you.

Or why are you wearing dem earrings.Â

If someone wants to be a WHM IC. unless they /explicitly/ involve you. (Rps something like "X casts the genuine Holy around the two showing they are a true WHM) then does it really matter?Â

Odds are really that

- You probably won't even see them enough after to even care what they rp as.

- If you do see them more and rp with them then you like the person OOC enough to not care.

- You'll realize they don't really care what you think they'll rp a WHM anyway.Â

All in all it's their $15 a month. They can do what the hell they want. It's one of the reasons Aaron IC knows a fucking Miqote monk/battlemage that wields all elements like the avatar and is also a master swordsman (despite not once ever using a sword IC. Said person just said they was because Aaron got so known IC to be a badass with a blade.) at what? 23?Â

Is it ridiculous? Oh yeah.

Is it the the point I refuse to ICly fight them? Yep it's to the point Aaron readily allows them to hit him. All he does is dodge.

Am I going to stop them from rping like that? Nope. Not my sub, and there's plenty people that will rp with them despite me not going that route. So my opinion is the minority.Â

Sometimes people need to stop with finding every little thing that isn't lore accurate and just roll with it. Not like if you do a dice roll that WHM who's in lore is so powerful is gonna wreck you're simple gladiator in a scrap.

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How to properly react to RP you don't like (or 'Punting the Puppy')

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes