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shotgunbadger · **05-18-2015, 09:30 AM**

I agree there, it seems like in Ishgard if a knight barges into a church and demands a wedding, the priest will probably go 'ha ha get out of my church you dirtbag' and that's the end of that. It may not be a full on theocracy but the church is clearly in charge of things politically and socially, if a priest says no you better have a really good reason to appeal that. And yea, saying 'ok fine screw this I'll go to another nation' in response would probably lead to 'cool, we don't recognize filthy outsider marriages so have fun playing pretend I guess'. Ishgard is not a fan of the whole personal freedom thing.

Velaena · **05-18-2015, 10:53 AM**

(05-17-2015, 07:07 PM)Virella Douront Wrote: Ishgardians seem to have politcal marriages, or so I assume such. Why else send assassins to a wedding ey?

http://xivdb.com/?leve/125/Supply-Side-Logic

I sure as heck hope that there aren't any assassins at poor Seraphine's wedding. Not that shes stepped on anyone's toes...no... <.<Â

(05-17-2015, 11:34 PM)Mercurias Wrote: It's been stated before that a midlander married, or as good as married, a Seeker in the Alchemy quest line.Â

In lore, interracial relationships are seen as odd or frowned upon more than same sex relationships in the eyes of society, so that may be an issue concerning some priests and/or priestesses. I could even consider it a plot point of the marriage: Finding someone to conduct the wedding.

Strange, a continent where homophobia is practically non-existent, but don't you dare marry that Miqo'te. It's intriguing that it would be such an issue, given that all the races are humanoid. I can see Elezen, Miqo'te, and Hyur all mixing without too many issues. Less so for Lala and Roe, however.Â

(05-18-2015, 09:30 AM)shotgunbadger Wrote: I agree there, it seems like in Ishgard if a knight barges into a church and demands a wedding, the priest will probably go 'ha ha get out of my church you dirtbag' and that's the end of that. It may not be a full on theocracy but the church is clearly in charge of things politically and socially, if a priest says no you better have a really good reason to appeal that. And yea, saying 'ok fine screw this I'll go to another nation' in response would probably lead to 'cool, we don't recognize filthy outsider marriages so have fun playing pretend I guess'. Ishgard is not a fan of the whole personal freedom thing.

I agree with this 100%. I think that women have a lot more social status than they had back in medieval Europe because although Ishgard is vehemently religious, they aren't sexist as far as I can tell. Women are guards/soldiers, healers etc. so it wouldn't be impossible to assume they can have a pretty high social status too, and the relative freedom to marry whom they choose along with it.Â

I can also see political marriages being a huge thing in Ishgard.Â

As for my character, this isn't something happening in the next couple of weeks of course, if it were to happen at all. Â Just curious as to how people viewed it.

Martiallais · **05-18-2015, 11:10 AM**

For Zarek at least, EBs are a marriage though (given his luck) not really something he's ever anticipating happening.

On the other hand Martiallais, being an Elezen Ishgardian, I've actually poked about at the idea that a political marriage could happen for him someday. While it wouldn't be something he'd want to do (given how these things are usually set up), he would put the needs of the family above his own desires and go through with it. Hopefully without any assassins though. >_>

I think how common marriage is depends on the race and where they're from? Like for some reason I'd think more marriages happen in say Gridania than Limsa. I blame the scenery honestly LOL. While I could maybe see the Las Vegas type weddings happening in Ul'dah, cause as long as you've got the gil you can make most anything happen there.

Mae · **05-18-2015, 11:41 AM**

(05-18-2015, 11:10 AM)Zarek Wrote: I think how common marriage is depends on the race and where they're from? Like for some reason I'd think more marriages happen in say Gridania than Limsa. I blame the scenery honestly LOL. While I could maybe see the Las Vegas type weddings happening in Ul'dah, cause as long as you've got the gil you can make most anything happen there.

Gridanians probably marry more 'freely' between whatever there are for social classes, and probably at a younger age (all that forest for a young couple to go 'walking' in, so best to get the girls married before any potential baby bumps start to show), and is probably the more proverbial country-folk type weddings.

Limsa... probably has a very loose definition of what marriage is. Lonely wives, horny sailors, with quite a few cases of 'a woman (or man) in every port', so a lot of give-and-take with the concept to keep people happy. Or either has a very low marriage rate or a very high divorce rate. The weddings are probably a case of a captain shows up, the couple says their versions of "I do's", and then the drunken party starts.

Ul'dah... marrying outside your class (AKA 'who you can afford') probably isn't that common. The poor marry the poor, the working class marries the working class, merchants and artisans marry merchants and artisans, and the upper class marry the upper class. And among the merchants/artisans and the upper class, I'd imagine there's some manner of arraignment in the process. The son of a, say, cooper (barrel maker) who's being set up to inherit the family business might be shown more favor and given more encouragement by a vicar/wine distributor who has a daughter of marrying age because (in theory) the vicar might be able to get a discount/form a partnership to get the barrels he needs cheaper from his new son-in-law.

Volk · **05-18-2015, 11:54 AM**

Ameline isn't married so all I really know is. . .

[Image: 321.jpg]

C'kayah Polaali · **05-18-2015, 01:02 PM**

(05-18-2015, 11:41 AM)Mae Wrote: Gridanians probably marry more 'freely' between whatever there are for social classes, and probably at a younger age (all that forest for a young couple to go 'walking' in, so best to get the girls married before any potential baby bumps start to show), and is probably the more proverbial country-folk type weddings.

See, I wouldn't actually think this.

Keep in mind that before the Calamity, the Black Shroud was a far more dangerous place. The Gridanians kept the elementals wrath at bay through rituals, but you still wouldn't want to wander it alone.

If you play through the archer quests you're introduced to a fairly racist/classist Elezen. From the way the guild master talks about him, he's not a particularly unusual individual in that regard. This leads me to believe that classism is alive and well in Gridania, and that you'd see a lot of resistance to mixed race marriages there - especially between Elezen and non-Elezen.

D'aito Kuji · **05-18-2015, 01:18 PM**

D'aito Kuji can hardly wrap her mind around eternal bonding or faithfulness to one partner. Â It's just not the tradition of her culture. Â While she tries to respect the choices of others, she does harbor some discriminatory attitudes towards Seekers who marry.

I've had her RP this discontent a few times and it's started some great conversations and discussions, usually with D'aito ending them by walking away shaking her head. To me, this is the fun of playing a character still deeply immersed in her traditions despite the fact that she ran away from her tribe to avoid the new Nuhn.

Khadan · **05-18-2015, 01:28 PM**

(05-18-2015, 09:30 AM)shotgunbadger Wrote: I agree there, it seems like in Ishgard if a knight barges into a church and demands a wedding, the priest will probably go 'ha ha get out of my church you dirtbag' and that's the end of that. It may not be a full on theocracy but the church is clearly in charge of things politically and socially, if a priest says no you better have a really good reason to appeal that. And yea, saying 'ok fine screw this I'll go to another nation' in response would probably lead to 'cool, we don't recognize filthy outsider marriages so have fun playing pretend I guess'. Ishgard is not a fan of the whole personal freedom thing.

I don't think that's entirely accurate. I'll try not to go on a tangent here though the topic has been discussed at length, before, but Ishgard is actually a Theocratic nation with a Feudal system firmly in place.Â

If a 'Knight' barged into a church demanding a wedding he'd probably be told to gtfo, sure, but if he went through the proper channels his status as a knight would probably grant him precedence over lower class requests for the same thing.

The main reason there's so many assassination attempts at Ishgardian weddings is, as stated before, that they are largely political. Nobility marries other nobility not really for love but for power, influence, money, and so on. The issue with this is when two houses get involved in that kind of union other houses lose out on that and sometimes they get a bit butthurt about such things; butthurt enough to hire a contract killer to stop the wedding because why the heck not? Beyond that, though, "personal freedom" seems to be still a thing in regards to one's ability to advance in society if Aymeric is any example.Â

When it comes to marriages elsewhere well Ishgard's patron deity is Halone but they still recognize the Twelve (of which Halone is a part of; 1/12th or 8.33% a part of to be exact), so it stands to reason that an Eternal Bond held at the Sanctum of the Twelve, for example, would be just as legally recognized in Ishgard as anywhere else. They may not LIKE it especially if the couple fled Ishgard to do it and they happened to be nobility and married against the wishes of their houses etc, but then that's why we have assassins. =P

Anyway that's my mini rant about personal freedoms and Ishgard etc.

Mae · **05-18-2015, 01:32 PM**

(05-18-2015, 01:02 PM)C Wrote:
(05-18-2015, 11:41 AM)Mae Wrote: Gridanians probably marry more 'freely' between whatever there are for social classes, and probably at a younger age (all that forest for a young couple to go 'walking' in, so best to get the girls married before any potential baby bumps start to show), and is probably the more proverbial country-folk type weddings.

See, I wouldn't actually think this.

Keep in mind that before the Calamity, the Black Shroud was a far more dangerous place. The Gridanians kept the elementals wrath at bay through rituals, but you still wouldn't want to wander it alone.

If you play through the archer quests you're introduced to a fairly racist/classist Elezen. From the way the guild master talks about him, he's not a particularly unusual individual in that regard. This leads me to believe that classism is alive and well in Gridania, and that you'd see a lot of resistance to mixed race marriages there - especially between Elezen and non-Elezen.

Social classes (the 'poor', the 'workers', the 'merchants/artisans', and the 'elite'), not races, or whether or not someone is a local or not (Silvarre's arguments were racial and "outsiders can't understand our ways"). Gridania as it is now, there seems to not be much of a difference between the poor and the merchants, and there's not many in the elite class.

As for not wandering the Shroud... that's just about anywhere that's next to or in an untamed wilderness. Dangerous, but a couple of hormonal teenagers who want to go and discuss the differences between boys and girls will go and risk it if there isn't a handy haystack, barn, storage shed, or root cellar to use instead.

McBeefâ„¢ · **05-18-2015, 01:34 PM**

(05-18-2015, 11:54 AM)Ameline Wrote: Ameline isn't married so all I really know is. . .

Hay gurl.

Let's make lesbian babies.

Chris Ganale · **05-18-2015, 02:10 PM**

(05-18-2015, 08:50 AM)Mae Wrote: Eh... not necessarily. At least possibly not in an Ishgardian chapel.

Ishgard seems to be very much a church-run state, where the priesthood has significantly more power than the knighthood. From what I got from the various quests in Coerthas, questioning/denying/defying the church is an unthinkable act, or at least one that's best done behind closed doors and in trusted company else you run the risk of being branded as an unbeliever, heathen, or (worse) a possible heretic. Even Haurchefant had to step carefully during the 30-something MSQ or risk being accused as a heretic (Guillaime's actual legitimacy to make such accusations at that point doesn't factor in).

If the attending priest said no (medieval Europe has many stories based around a priest denying a marriage because of lack of "recognized" permission/consent for the bride, to the dowry wasn't enough, to someone marrying below their station, to the priest not liking the family of one of the parties, to someone's position in the church was questionable, and to "God said 'No'"), it's likely that that could be the end of it. The couple could try to bounce around to various chapels until they found someone they could convince to carry out the ceremony, but the previous ones that said 'no' could come out of the woodwork and annul he wedding, call for the knight to put his/her spouse aside (especially if the spouse is "of lower class" or unbeliever/outsider), or even face excommunication or loss of station. Going outside Ishgard for a wedding, the wedding might not even be recognized back inside Ishgard.

*shrugs*

It's just speculation on my part.

Never said anything about a church in Ishgard.

Volk · **05-18-2015, 02:30 PM**

(05-18-2015, 01:34 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote:
(05-18-2015, 11:54 AM)Ameline Wrote: Ameline isn't married so all I really know is. . .

Hay gurl.

Let's make lesbian babies.

Come at me, Eva Chocobo

OttoVann · **05-18-2015, 02:44 PM**

Otto has two wives, with a third in the works. He thinks of marriage largely as a joke due to rampant not-giving-a-fuck-itis he contracted once he hit 30.

Kismet · **05-18-2015, 03:21 PM**

I take Eternal Bonding to be interchangeable with marriage both IC and OOC, because I'm pretty sure SE just called it that to get the homophobes to pipe down.

Kalooeh · **05-19-2015, 03:32 AM**

(05-18-2015, 11:41 AM)Mae Wrote:
(05-18-2015, 11:10 AM)Zarek Wrote: I think how common marriage is depends on the race and where they're from? Like for some reason I'd think more marriages happen in say Gridania than Limsa. I blame the scenery honestly LOL. While I could maybe see the Las Vegas type weddings happening in Ul'dah, cause as long as you've got the gil you can make most anything happen there.
Gridanians probably marry more 'freely' between whatever there are for social classes, and probably at a younger age (all that forest for a young couple to go 'walking' in, so best to get the girls married before any potential baby bumps start to show), and is probably the more proverbial country-folk type weddings.

Limsa... probably has a very loose definition of what marriage is. Lonely wives, horny sailors, with quite a few cases of 'a woman (or man) in every port', so a lot of give-and-take with the concept to keep people happy. Or either has a very low marriage rate or a very high divorce rate. The weddings are probably a case of a captain shows up, the couple says their versions of "I do's", and then the drunken party starts.

Ul'dah... marrying outside your class (AKA 'who you can afford') probably isn't that common. The poor marry the poor, the working class marries the working class, merchants and artisans marry merchants and artisans, and the upper class marry the upper class. And among the merchants/artisans and the upper class, I'd imagine there's some manner of arraignment in the process. The son of a, say, cooper (barrel maker) who's being set up to inherit the family business might be shown more favor and given more encouragement by a vicar/wine distributor who has a daughter of marrying age because (in theory) the vicar might be able to get a discount/form a partnership to get the barrels he needs cheaper from his new son-in-law.

Salt wives are a thing in Limsa. There was an npc there asking someone to be one.
Course not the same thing as in Game of Thrones with the ironborn
Can still take it as a thing that they're like a more serious couple than just bf/gf gf/gf bf/bf type of thing, but they're not like officially married/bonded.
Really makes sense too for a bunch of "ex" pirates and how their society is set up. Even with official bondings wouldn't be surprised if there's a lot of extra couples on the side either for fun or in poly amorous situations

For Ul'dah (or more specifically the Dunes Lala) I'd imagine it's not all entirely about just their status so much as what the person is looking for. Someone could be looking for a type of partnership more than love; a trophy spouse; or meet someone who has actually pretty good ideas for making money and a good sense for business, but may not have a lot of actual opportunity to do anything with it because of their position but getting married to someone with the money to make it happen and not only make money themselves but help the other person make more money could also be a thing.

I admit I always kind of view the Dunes/Ul'dah lala like the goblins from Warcraft. It's not so much just about position as is money or potential for money. And sometimes probably just about looks because the person has a lot of money coming in and all good and just want some pretty/handsome thing on their arm to show off (and opposite of that is those that are more prudent about it and because beauty fades, they go for the person's mind more). Course Goblins are crazy and more likely to get in to random relationships for thrills too than what lalafells would seem to do, but not the point there.

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Marriage: How do you handle it?

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