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Gegenji · **06-09-2015, 09:54 AM**

(06-09-2015, 09:48 AM)Lilia Lia Wrote: I'm still pretty new to the forum so maybe I just haven't seen these negative feelings... people dislike the Au Ra race OOC?

There have been varying levels of feelings towards the Au Ra. Some are excited and already have plans in place or are just waiting on lore to get things rolling. However, there are also others who feel that the Au Ra aren't "beastly" enough or that think the models are slapped together or have issue with the size/ferocity difference between males and females. A lot of those who are unhappy with the Au Ra in some shape or form have been rather vocal about it in threads about them too.

Whether that dislike will bleed into interactions with them has yet to be seen. However, it's also just as likely that if the player has enough disdain for the race, they could actively just avoid RPing with them. Or just shrug, not make an Au Ra since it isn't their cup of tea, and just keep RPing as normal and deal with the Au Ra on a character-by-character basis like they do with everyone else.

However, if you're playing an Au Ra and are unsure if the attitude being brought against them is just because of the character and not the player - you could always send them a /tell and ask. And if they respond in a way that makes it seem they're using your character to OOCly vent about how much they hate the race... then you can duck out and go find RP elsewhere that would likely be much more enjoyable.

One or two very vocal anti-Au Ra players (or anti-any race, really) shouldn't kill your desire to play the race that you want.

Cailean Lockwood · **06-09-2015, 10:26 AM**

(06-09-2015, 07:51 AM)hauntmedoitagain Wrote: If you want me to be honest (and not quoting anyone in particular because I'm so burnt out by this point that I don't even care anymore), then I will: I think racism is a subject that cannot be trusted with 99% of roleplayers to handle with any sort of tact or respect for those around them.

Like sexism, homophobia and transphobia, it should not be touched. Just don't. RP is personal rather people want to deny it or not and these are the type of subjects that hit at an OOC level. They really, really do. Trust me on that.

I believe that the emotional well-being of those around you trumps your RP desires any day of the week. If you want to play those scenarios out, then do so in your private circle, not public where feelings can and will be hurt.

And let's be honest: it's been made very clear that OOC feelings will be driving IC Au Ra hate elsewhere. Just take a peek in any thread relating to them; it's quite damning.

If people can RP about it maturely and tastefully, like Graeham describes above, then it can become interesting RP. An idea would be to send a /tell to the other part, saying something like "This isn't personal, my character just really hates Lalas due to past experiences. I hope that's alright." to reassure the other part that it is indeed not personal and it is indeed only IC. And if the other part doesn't think it is alright, then just don't RP with eachother. Simple as that.

However, there are indeed those people who IRL are racists or homophobes, who take that hatred into IC and who DO make it personal and who uses in-game as an excuse for their hatred. And that is just not alright.

(06-09-2015, 09:48 AM)Lilia Lia Wrote: So if my character isn't immediately accepting of Au Ra, people are going to treat it as OOC "discrimination" and blacklist me or report me to SE?Â That's kind of ridiculous isn't it?

As I said above, it depends on your reason for your character to hate and discriminate a group of people. If you encounter someone who doesn't find your IC hatred towards them alright, even if it is completely IC, then simply don't RP with them. If that person asks you to stop addressing them, and you still keep doing so, then that is harrassment and THEN you should be blacklisted and reported.

As long you respect people's boundaries, then there shouldn't be a problem. ^^

Cato · **06-09-2015, 10:37 AM**

I get the impression that if someone does happen to hate Au Ra on an OOC level then they're likely to not bother seeking out Au Ra to interact with in the first place. I saw quite a few people who were very vocal about blood elves back when I role-played in WoW and I played blood elves almost exclusively for years.Â

Bar one or two exceptions I never once saw those vocal individuals seeking out blood elves to interact with or bash - and if they did they were usually quickly put in their place since the stuff they said was pretty ridiculous in the first place.

Cailean Lockwood · **06-09-2015, 10:53 AM**

(06-09-2015, 10:37 AM)Graeham Wrote: I get the impression that if someone does happen to hate Au Ra on an OOC level then they're likely to not bother seeking out Au Ra to interact with in the first place. I saw quite a few people who were very vocal about blood elves back when I role-played in WoW and I played blood elves almost exclusively for years.Â

Bar one or two exceptions I never once saw those vocal individuals seeking out blood elves to interact with or bash - and if they did they were usually quickly put in their place since the stuff they said was pretty ridiculous in the first place.

You must've been on a very nice server then. I was in <The Sha'tar> and played a blood elf as well, and every day the /trade channel was spammed with "Blood Elf f#ggots!" and the like, not to mention those who went to Silvermoon, JUST to annoy people RP'ing there by jumping around and dancing on top of people with their bulky armour and the enlargement potions (talking about overcompensating for something, huh. ;P ).

Bullying online, also in MMO's, is a real thing.
That said, I've found the FFXIV RP community mostly acceptive and friendly towards me as a gay guy RP'ing gay characters, and I love it for that. FFXIV has been the most enjoyable MMO to RP in because of that. However, that doesn't mean that there aren't people who do have some sort of personal problem with it and have indeed taken it out on me - people I have never interacted with before suddenly coming up to me and harrassing me. And when I addressed the person in /tell asking why, the hatred was really shining through every word he said. Blacklisted and reported.

I can RP with IC racists, homophobes and whatever. I can distinguish between IC and OOC, and I have had some awesome friendships with people OOCly whose characters conflict with my own, because the conflict is kept purely ICly.

Not everyone are as open-minded and acceptive, and as you said earlier, the very world of FFXIV reflects that as well. But I will not allow it to disrupt my enjoyment of the game. If there are people who's RP I don't agree with, then I just don't RP with those people. I will absolutely not enforce my views on someone and harrass them about it, and I don't wish for others to do so onto me either.

Cato · **06-09-2015, 11:07 AM**

(06-09-2015, 10:53 AM)theincubuslord Wrote:
(06-09-2015, 10:37 AM)Graeham Wrote: I get the impression that if someone does happen to hate Au Ra on an OOC level then they're likely to not bother seeking out Au Ra to interact with in the first place. I saw quite a few people who were very vocal about blood elves back when I role-played in WoW and I played blood elves almost exclusively for years.Â

Bar one or two exceptions I never once saw those vocal individuals seeking out blood elves to interact with or bash - and if they did they were usually quickly put in their place since the stuff they said was pretty ridiculous in the first place.

You must've been on a very nice server then. I was in <The Sha'tar> and played a blood elf as well, and every day the /trade channel was spammed with "Blood Elf f#ggots!" and the like, not to mention those who went to Silvermoon, JUST to annoy people RP'ing there by jumping around and dancing on top of people with their bulky armour and the enlargement potions (talking about overcompensating for something, huh. ;P ).

Bullying online, also in MMO's, is a real thing.
That said, I've found the FFXIV RP community mostly acceptive and friendly towards me as a gay guy RP'ing gay characters, and I love it for that. FFXIV has been the most enjoyable MMO to RP in because of that. However, that doesn't mean that there aren't people who do have some sort of personal problem with it and have indeed taken it out on me - people I have never interacted with before suddenly coming up to me and harrassing me. And when I addressed the person in /tell asking why, the hatred was really shining through every word he said. Blacklisted and reported.

I can RP with IC racists, homophobes and whatever. I can distinguish between IC and OOC, and I have had some awesome friendships with people OOCly whose characters conflict with my own, because the conflict is kept purely ICly.

Not everyone are as open-minded and acceptive, and as you said earlier, the very world of FFXIV reflects that as well. But I will not allow it to disrupt my enjoyment of the game. If there are people who's RP I don't agree with, then I just don't RP with those people. I will absolutely not enforce my views on someone and harrass them about it, and I don't wish for others to do so onto me either.

Was that on the European role-playing servers by chance? I played on Argent Dawn. I wouldn't say it was a 'nice' server (it had more than a few problems) but most people took a pretty firm stance against blatant cases of OOC discrimination leaking into IC interaction.

Cailean Lockwood · **06-09-2015, 11:23 AM**

(06-09-2015, 11:07 AM)Graeham Wrote:
(06-09-2015, 10:53 AM)theincubuslord Wrote:
(06-09-2015, 10:37 AM)Graeham Wrote: I get the impression that if someone does happen to hate Au Ra on an OOC level then they're likely to not bother seeking out Au Ra to interact with in the first place. I saw quite a few people who were very vocal about blood elves back when I role-played in WoW and I played blood elves almost exclusively for years.Â

Bar one or two exceptions I never once saw those vocal individuals seeking out blood elves to interact with or bash - and if they did they were usually quickly put in their place since the stuff they said was pretty ridiculous in the first place.

You must've been on a very nice server then. I was in <The Sha'tar> and played a blood elf as well, and every day the /trade channel was spammed with "Blood Elf f#ggots!" and the like, not to mention those who went to Silvermoon, JUST to annoy people RP'ing there by jumping around and dancing on top of people with their bulky armour and the enlargement potions (talking about overcompensating for something, huh. ;P ).

Bullying online, also in MMO's, is a real thing.
That said, I've found the FFXIV RP community mostly acceptive and friendly towards me as a gay guy RP'ing gay characters, and I love it for that. FFXIV has been the most enjoyable MMO to RP in because of that. However, that doesn't mean that there aren't people who do have some sort of personal problem with it and have indeed taken it out on me - people I have never interacted with before suddenly coming up to me and harrassing me. And when I addressed the person in /tell asking why, the hatred was really shining through every word he said. Blacklisted and reported.

I can RP with IC racists, homophobes and whatever. I can distinguish between IC and OOC, and I have had some awesome friendships with people OOCly whose characters conflict with my own, because the conflict is kept purely ICly.

Not everyone are as open-minded and acceptive, and as you said earlier, the very world of FFXIV reflects that as well. But I will not allow it to disrupt my enjoyment of the game. If there are people who's RP I don't agree with, then I just don't RP with those people. I will absolutely not enforce my views on someone and harrass them about it, and I don't wish for others to do so onto me either.

Was that on the European role-playing servers by chance? I played on Argent Dawn. I wouldn't say it was a 'nice' server (it had more than a few problems) but most people took a pretty firm stance against blatant cases of OOC discrimination leaking into IC interaction.

Yup, European here. ^^
I was on Argent Dawn as well for a time, but not for very long. Had already taken a couple of years break from WoW, returned to see The Sha'tar server was pretty much abandoned and everyone gathered on Argent Dawn, so I transferred as well. However, after a short while I was reminded why I took a break in the first place and just stopped playing after that.

The WoW RP community was rather elitist and people were generally not very acceptive of one another, was my experience while being there. I was lucky to find a group of friends to RP with. Hence why I was so surprised of how welcoming and open the FFXIV RP community has been when I joined here. ^^

***RiniKett*** · **06-09-2015, 02:43 PM**

I think I got lost half way through the responses...But..Isn't one of the fundamental rules of RP to separate IC feelings and OOC feelings? Though, it's almost impossible to persuade those who believe one way to believe another via the internet; I would guess this goes by a user by user experience?

Lilia Lia · **06-09-2015, 04:27 PM**

(06-09-2015, 02:43 PM)RiniKett Wrote: I think I got lost half way through the responses...But..Isn't one of the fundamental rules of RP to separate IC feelings and OOC feelings? Â Though, it's almost impossible to persuade those who believe one way to believe another via the internet; I would guess this goes by a user by user experience?

Yes.Â There seems to be two sides of this in this particular case.Â On the one side, the idea that people are allowing their OOC biases to influence their IC behavior (people who hate Au Ra coming up with novel justifications for their character to share their views).

The other side I'm seeing is people being personally offended by discrimination targeted towards their characters.Â If a fictional character dislikes Au Ra, why should that be upsetting to the player?Â You aren't your character and you aren't Au Ra.

What it seems to boil down to is that some people just fundamentally dislike racial prejudice as an RP theme.Â Which is clearly their prerogative, even if it can potentially limit who they RP with.

***RiniKett*** · **06-09-2015, 04:57 PM**

(06-09-2015, 04:27 PM)Lilia Lia Wrote:
(06-09-2015, 02:43 PM)RiniKett Wrote: I think I got lost half way through the responses...But..Isn't one of the fundamental rules of RP to separate IC feelings and OOC feelings? Â Though, it's almost impossible to persuade those who believe one way to believe another via the internet; I would guess this goes by a user by user experience?

Yes.Â There seems to be two sides of this in this particular case.Â On the one side, the idea that people are allowing their OOC biases to influence their IC behavior (people who hate Au Ra coming up with novel justifications for their character to share their views).

The other side I'm seeing is people being personally offended by discrimination targeted towards their characters.Â If a fictional character dislikes Au Ra, why should that be upsetting to the player?Â You aren't your character and you aren't Au Ra.

What it seems to boil down to is that some people just fundamentally dislike racial prejudice as an RP theme.Â Which is clearly their prerogative, even if it can potentially limit who they RP with.

I agree, I guess I always figured that RP, while being fantasy, is still an extension of the world in which we live in. It is based off of people, society, conflict, and solutions. Just as things are in our world there are going to be things that happen in the rp world that are wrong. While I do not believe racism is justified by any means, it is a character trait/flaw. If someone wishes for their character to hindered by such it is their choice.

But, everyone is different, but everyone has their own rights as well, even those who play a racist character as long as it doesn't involve an OOC hate....If it does then that person is just petty.

Mae · **06-09-2015, 05:56 PM**

When confronted about her clothing choices, Yugiri makes a comment about people fearing that which is strange/unknown, and that she'd spare citizens of Ul'dah the discomfort of seeing her. This seems to be indication that Au Ra have -somewhere- encountered other cultures that reacted negatively to their appearance. With that in mind, I think it's perfectly justifiable for people to go the distrustful/hostile route if they choose.

Cailean Lockwood · **06-09-2015, 05:57 PM**

(06-09-2015, 05:56 PM)Mae Wrote: When confronted about her clothing choices, Yugiri makes a comment about people fearing that which is strange/unknown, and that she'd spare citizens of Ul'dah the discomfort of seeing her. This seems to be indication that Au Ra have -somewhere- encountered other cultures that reacted negatively to their appearance. With that in mind, I think it's perfectly justifiable for people to go the distrustful/hostile route if they choose.

As long it doesn't go all redneck-like.

"That fella looks weird. Let's kill'em!"

That just screams ignorancy and idiocy.

Lilia Lia · **06-09-2015, 05:59 PM**

(06-09-2015, 04:57 PM)RiniKett Wrote: While I do not believe racism is justified by any means, it is a character trait/flaw. If someone wishes for their character to hindered by such it is their choice.

But, everyone is different, but everyone has their own rights as well, even those who play a racist character as long as it doesn't involve an OOC hate....If it does then that person is just petty.

Well, I also think we need to keep in mind that race in the FFXIV world is drastically different from what we consider "race" in the real world.Â In the real world we have only very minor physical differences between "races" such that it's absurd to make generalizations about them.Â We are all the same species.Â We don't have drastically different genetic lineages and origins.

In Eorzea, the races are presumably individual species that just happen to be sentient humanoids capable of speech.Â So racism in Eorzea is not as stupid as racism IRL, since it doesn't involve members of the same species.Â It's kind of unfair to compare it to what we in the real world would call "racism."

Different animals can have different levels of intellect, temperaments, etc.Â To me, it's more analogous to different breeds of dog - all dogs are the same species, but beagles and poodles are more intelligent than many other dogs, greyhounds run faster, corgis and collies are more personable, and pit bulls are more likely to be vicious.Â Are these all true?Â Maybe so, maybe not, but in theory a person might start seeing distinctions like these among the races of Eorzea.

You don't need to look any further than the race lore to see these attitudes confirmed.Â Example of dunesfolk lalafell:

Quote:They are adamant about scholasticism, placing the advancement of knowledge before all else. Other races tend to perceive male Dunesfolk as introverts who care more for books, business, and the prosperity of Ul'dah than the goings-on of the rest of the realm.

And of course it's all based in personal experience rather than reason, because that's how prejudices are formed.Â "I don't trust lalafells" says the Hyur who has been ripped off by more than one lalafell merchant at some point.Â "Plainsfolk are lazy slackers" says the proud Ul'dahn Dunesfolk. Â "Miqo'tes are all feral beasts" might be something you'd hear from a person who only knows of their social structure and has never met one in person. And so on.

We need to keep in mind that Eorzeans don't live in the information age, there's no internet and no globalization, and education is a privilege of the upper class, so personal opinions on these matters would be informed by nothing more than individual experience.Â High-minded modern ideas like "racial tolerance" would have a hard time penetrating the public consciousness, in my opinion.

Seriphyn · **06-09-2015, 06:52 PM**

(06-09-2015, 05:57 PM)theincubuslord Wrote:
(06-09-2015, 05:56 PM)Mae Wrote: When confronted about her clothing choices, Yugiri makes a comment about people fearing that which is strange/unknown, and that she'd spare citizens of Ul'dah the discomfort of seeing her. This seems to be indication that Au Ra have -somewhere- encountered other cultures that reacted negatively to their appearance. With that in mind, I think it's perfectly justifiable for people to go the distrustful/hostile route if they choose.

As long it doesn't go all redneck-like.

"That fella looks weird. Let's kill'em!"

That just screams ignorancy and idiocy.

Why can't it? It's RP/IC. If people want to roleplay that, they can. Just like how we have movies/books depicting the same. It's not "real".

Cailean Lockwood · **06-09-2015, 06:58 PM**

(06-09-2015, 06:52 PM)Seriphyn Wrote:
(06-09-2015, 05:57 PM)theincubuslord Wrote:
(06-09-2015, 05:56 PM)Mae Wrote: When confronted about her clothing choices, Yugiri makes a comment about people fearing that which is strange/unknown, and that she'd spare citizens of Ul'dah the discomfort of seeing her. This seems to be indication that Au Ra have -somewhere- encountered other cultures that reacted negatively to their appearance. With that in mind, I think it's perfectly justifiable for people to go the distrustful/hostile route if they choose.

As long it doesn't go all redneck-like.

"That fella looks weird. Let's kill'em!"

That just screams ignorancy and idiocy.

Why can't it? It's RP/IC. If people want to roleplay that, they can. Just like how we have movies/books depicting the same. It's not "real".

It can, but it's still ignorant and idiotic. If your character is an ignorant idiot, then by all means, RP an ignorant idiot. I'm just not going to RP with you then. ^^

Aaron · **06-09-2015, 07:05 PM**

Most of the whole OOC hate leads to IC hate is because the Au Ra is new and the general bandwagon is to hate new things with a passion for about a month.

I've witnessed DRK hate. MCH hate. AST hate. You name it.

But bet in a month or so those people will have a alt with something they swear up and down they hate.

Poll: Your character's initial reaction to Au Ra? You do not have permission to vote in this poll.
Curious and eager to learn about them.	41.03%	32	41.03%
Generally neutral.	23.08%	18	23.08%
Wary, skeptical, or evasive.	29.49%	23	29.49%
Outright hostile.	6.41%	5	6.41%
Total		78 vote(s)	100%

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Au Ra - How will your character react?

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