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Sarina Alyne · **03-12-2016, 05:08 PM**

(03-12-2016, 04:39 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote:
(03-12-2016, 03:20 AM)Sarina Alyne Wrote: I suppose I should revive this thread given the recent addition of Modern Vocation to the game/world which, presumably, allows those not specifically trained in certain arts to learn the ways of forgotten battle techniques.

Again, I am particularly interested in the presence of White Mages in FFXIV roleplay, which I was told earlier in this thread and from other sources is a very taboo job considering the greatly political nature of the job and the exclusivity of the magic. Has Modern VocationÂ been considered for roleplay use at all? And if so, what is the general consensus from the community when it comes to using this as a means to have exclusive jobs easier to explain/accessible for normal characters?

Thank you for your time!

Edit: This thread probably belongs in FFXIV Discussion now, if somebody has a chance to move it!

I believe it basically falls into game mechanics, not lore itself.

That said, if you are truly wanting to play a White Mage for whatever reason, it's possible. Â Just tell a story that's convincing. Â Come up with a good story for how your character was chosen by the Padjal or the Elements (or got a hold of an Amdapori Soulstone) to be trained. Â And then play it.

Some people will be cool with it. Â Some people won't be. Â With most, it will depend on how convincing your story is, and how well you play it out.

I've been debating a White Mage story for some time now, however, I almost feel as though the job is too taboo in roleplay lore at this point. I'll write a few drafts, taking into account the lore behind White Mages and see if I can come up with something plausible.

LiadansWhisper · **03-12-2016, 08:51 PM**

(03-12-2016, 05:08 PM)Sarina Alyne Wrote: I've been debating a White Mage story for some time now, however, I almost feel as though the job is too taboo in roleplay lore at this point. I'll write a few drafts, taking into account the lore behind White Mages and see if I can come up with something plausible.

Well, consider this for a moment...if your character were to become a White Mage, that would likely be an extremely well-guarded secret. The magic is forbidden, after all. But then, how many people actually know what Succor looks like when it's used? It would take someone with very specific knowledge to be able to say in-character that they know you were using Succor (if, indeed, you ever did use it in-character).

The other thing that I was going to point out is, some people would say, "Oh, well, if I can't be open about it, what's the point? If no one knows, I might as well be a Conjurer?" But that's not entirely true. Sometimes the internal story of a character is every bit as important as the story everyone else sees. Imagine holding the hope of all mankind, and having the power to use it, and having to choose not to do so for the greater good. Or knowing that you could save your friends from some fate, but knowing that you absolutely must not because of the circumstances.

There's a lot of character growth and development that can be structured around something like that. But, of course, there are those who will have a problem with you playing a White Mage the moment they find out OOC. Then again...they would probably have a problem with you playing a Conjurer if they didn't like the exact way you go about doing so. Or a problem with your healing actually working on other people (which is a really strange issue I've run into recently - people seem quite hostile to the idea of magical healing working...in a high-magic setting with magical healing Rolleyes

). So, really, it's a question of what you're willing to put up with, and what you really want.

But if you want to play a White Mage, I do recommend that you become one in-character as part of story, not in your background before you entered the game IC.

Valence · **03-13-2016, 05:18 AM**

As long as you are straightforward OOCly with the people you roleplay with...!

LiadansWhisper · **03-13-2016, 05:42 AM**

(03-13-2016, 05:18 AM)Valence Wrote: As long as you are straightforward OOCly with the people you roleplay with...!

No one is under any obligation to tell anyone they rp with about anything that would be defined as an in-character secret. In fact, it's a fairly terrible idea to do so, because on the one hand, you have players who will magically "know" the secret IC once you tell them OOC, with no actual investigation. On the other, you'll have players who no longer feel comfortable actually investigating that plot thread because they can't be sure they're not somehow meta gaming by even suspecting it because you already ruined the secret OOC.

It's literally no one's business unless they find out in character.

Paradox · **03-13-2016, 06:51 AM**

I know this is an instance of Game mechanics vs Lore and all, but an interesting thing to note is that we see Allagans using both Black and White magic in their boss battles. Admittedly one can say 'well, why make new spells when you can just recycle old ones', right? The thing is, they use differing variants. It's highly likely if you interpret it to any degree that the Allagans may very well have had their own proto-versions of Black and White magic, and the soulstones to manipulate them. They did create Summmoning, after all..which is connected in some ways to the more modern Arcanima. In this instance, it might be possible to stumble on relics or a stone connected to an empire that far predates Amdapor and piece together a sort of proto-succor of your own..of course with the risks that come with it. And even mold it into something resembling modern succor as time goes on.

Scylla for example uses..was it Dark Holy or Unholy? Can't recall the proper name. And several bosses use 'Ancient Flare'. Some even use earth-based spells that currently no class even has (Xande's Quaga, and Ancient Quaga for example). Admittedly there's no ironclad Lore law that says Allag developed Black/White magic, but magic and its practices, like anything, is passed down, forgotten, and rediscovered under different names later as time goes on. In a way like myths. So it's very well within the rules of magic that Allag may have made the ancestor of those magicks, an older form, which could be used to piece together a more modern form through study. Just a possible avenue.

Cynel1 · **03-13-2016, 08:53 AM**

personaly i started my Arc as a gladator for a good base before i became a paladin IC

i was tempted to say that Cyn was adopted by a paladin but i went with being adopted by a gladiator to be a bit more believable.

Kellach Woods · **03-13-2016, 09:53 AM**

(03-13-2016, 06:51 AM)A Wrote: Scylla for example uses..was it Dark Holy or Unholy? Can't recall the proper name. And several bosses use 'Ancient Flare'. Some even use earth-based spells that currently no class even has (Xande's Quaga, and Ancient Quaga for example). Admittedly there's no ironclad Lore law that says Allag developed Black/White magic, but magic and its practices, like anything, is passed down, forgotten, and rediscovered under different names later as time goes on. In a way like myths. So it's very well within the rules of magic that Allag may have made the ancestor of those magicks, an older form, which could be used to piece together a more modern form through study. Just a possible avenue.

Scylla uses Unholy.

If you want Ancient Holy, you need to look to Amdapor.

Valence · **03-13-2016, 11:20 AM**

(03-13-2016, 05:42 AM)LiadansWhisper Wrote:
(03-13-2016, 05:18 AM)Valence Wrote: As long as you are straightforward OOCly with the people you roleplay with...!

No one is under any obligation to tell anyone they rp with about anything that would be defined as an in-character secret. In fact, it's a fairly terrible idea to do so, because on the one hand, you have players who will magically "know" the secret IC once you tell them OOC, with no actual investigation. On the other, you'll have players who no longer feel comfortable actually investigating that plot thread because they can't be sure they're not somehow meta gaming by even suspecting it because you already ruined the secret OOC.

It's literally no one's business unless they find out in character.

I don't think I would enjoy playing with people that would meta OOC knowledge like that and suddenly know IC secrets out of the blue.

However, I like to know who i'm RPing with, in the exact same vein. If the player thinks I would be annoyed by something in his/her character background and decides to hide it... Well, speak about trust and healthy RP relationship... I guess? In any case, that already hints at RP incompatibility and differences of views.

That's why I find the straightforward approach pretty clean and neat. No place for ambiguity, no place for ensuing drama.

**Unnamed Mercenary** · **03-13-2016, 11:32 AM**

(03-13-2016, 11:20 AM)Valence Wrote:
(03-13-2016, 05:42 AM)LiadansWhisper Wrote:
(03-13-2016, 05:18 AM)Valence Wrote: As long as you are straightforward OOCly with the people you roleplay with...!

No one is under any obligation to tell anyone they rp with about anything that would be defined as an in-character secret. In fact, it's a fairly terrible idea to do so, because on the one hand, you have players who will magically "know" the secret IC once you tell them OOC, with no actual investigation. On the other, you'll have players who no longer feel comfortable actually investigating that plot thread because they can't be sure they're not somehow meta gaming by even suspecting it because you already ruined the secret OOC.

It's literally no one's business unless they find out in character.

I don't think I would enjoy playing with people that would meta OOC knowledge like that and suddenly know IC secrets out of the blue.

However, I like to know who i'm RPing with, in the exact same vein. If the player thinks I would be annoyed by something in his/her character background and decides to hide it... Well, speak about trust and healthy RP relationship... I guess? In any case, that already hints at RP incompatibility and differences of views.

That's why I find the straightforward approach pretty clean and neat. No place for ambiguity, no place for ensuing drama.

It's a matter of player preference, and the two sides oppose each other.

Some people like/need to know that stuff OOC (whether to judge if they want to RP with the person or not) and others follow a more "don't ask, don't tell" approach where it's ok as long as it's not in their RP (unless they're comfortable RPing it).

What I've found that's worked well for me is to have a section of my wiki dedicated to those types of "spoiler-y" or "lore-bent/broken" concepts I RP so I can lay it out for the people who need to know. Then, if I'm RPing with someone who may want to know that stuff, I can point them to it in the wiki for their viewing pleasure. Of course, this runs high-risk of being meta-gamed. But that then becomes a matter of RPing with the people I like to RP with and so on.

S'imba · **03-14-2016, 05:28 PM**

I don't see any problem playing white mage. To me it seems once someone has the secret of succor they're pretty much free to do whatever they want with it. Whether the elementals agree or disagree. It's why they went to all that effort to hide the ruins of amdpor. If they had the capabilities to take it away I would think it would be a pretty good way to warn people what happens when you misuse white magic. Since the elementals wanted that place to stay hidden it suggests that there's something that isn't supposed to be found. Based on the things we saw in lost city hm the white mages were doing some bad juju type of things. Basically I feel if you're character has an explanation how they got Â that knowledge I feel you could play it ic. There's not really any force in the game that is powerful enough it can't be beaten in some way.Â
As for making everything about your character public knowledge ooc I'm split on it. If it's something I see that could affect rp I'll mention it. If someone's curious I'll explain. There's quite a few things about S'imba I don't tend to mention often in rp cause in most cases it really won't influence the story. So normally I won't mention certain things unless I'm directly asked about it. I have added a few things to my wiki that fell into this category after a few upset people were mad I didn't make some things public knowledge cause they wanted it to use it for their story arc.Â

Though the biggest thing is just have fun. I'm fairly certain there's plenty of people hate me cause of the way I rp, and want nothing to do with me. But I got people who do enjoy my rp and have like minded tastes. I don't want to spend my time worrying what the community thinks of me by pandering to what some general consensus the community says how you should rp. All I care about is whether your character has a compelling story and motivations...all this over excessive lore policing only has led to the same stuff over and over again cause they are pigeon holed into writing their character to fit in with how everyone else thinks you should play your character.

Paradox · **03-14-2016, 05:59 PM**

Quote:Scylla uses Unholy.

If you want Ancient Holy, you need to look to Amdapor.

Yeah. Makes me wonder what Unholy actually is; if it's white magic reverse engineered, or some kind of proto-succor with dark magic infused into it. The questions I wish they'd answer on the spells some of these bosses use. >>

**Unnamed Mercenary** · **03-14-2016, 06:06 PM**

(03-14-2016, 05:59 PM)A Wrote:
Quote:Scylla uses Unholy.

If you want Ancient Holy, you need to look to Amdapor.

Yeah. Makes me wonder what Unholy actually is; if it's white magic reverse engineered, or some kind of proto-succor with dark magic infused into it. The questions I wish they'd answer on the spells some of these bosses use. >>

Perhaps it's actual void magic? We know the Allags really liked their void experiments, which eventually led to their downfall.

Paradox · **03-14-2016, 06:33 PM**

Could be. They had so many innovations, from magitech to void control. Hell, they were able to enact a ritual to bring an actual dead person back to life. Which means calling their specific energy back from the Lifestream or Void, wherever it goes, and reconstituting it into a physical form properly instead of in a zombie or voidsent form. That's pretty insane no matter how you look at it.

LiadansWhisper · **03-14-2016, 06:43 PM**

(03-14-2016, 06:33 PM)Arklonn Sargonnai Wrote: Could be. They had so many innovations, from magitech to void control. Hell, they were able to enact a ritual to bring an actual dead person back to life. Which means calling their specific energy back from the Lifestream or Void, wherever it goes, and reconstituting it into a physical form properly instead of in a zombie or voidsent form. That's pretty insane no matter how you look at it.

And yet, it appears to have led to madness

Paradox · **03-14-2016, 06:51 PM**

Madness? THIS. IS. ...nah, too easy. But yeah, with great power comes great insanity usually. There's always *some* higher cost to be the peak civilization of any lore or story. Hubris, dark deals, that sort of thing, so it's no surprise. Kinda what Ark does in a way. He studies Allagan stuff, works with what he can, but also remembers 'hey, these guys kinda fucked up ages ago. Let's not do that again.'

And this whole thing's gone semi off topic. xD

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FFXIV jobs in RP

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes