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Brainstorming an Au Ra Dark Knight origin. Need to be lore-checked.

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allgivenover allgivenover Find all posts by this user 星魔法少女 Posts:1,027 Joined:Feb 2013 Character:Kurenai Nagi Server: ---------------- Reputation: 108 RE: Brainstorming an Au Ra Dark Knight origin. Need to be lore-checked. | #31 06-02-2016, 12:43 PM (06-01-2016, 07:34 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: Sidurgu is obviously an exception, being one of two known Xaela to come to Eorzea in the last 100 years and survive for more than a year. Not directly related, but have you or anyone come across any explanation for why Xaela just... were totally absent from Eorzea? We're talking about a race of nomads that's existed for a very, very long time that somehow hasn't managed to make its way to Eorzea, a diverse land made up of immigrant populations. Ishgard is explained, Au Ra look like they might be Dragon people. Dragon people are not welcome, makes sense. The rest of Eorzea isn't explained. Unless Ishgard kept Au Ra out of the rest of Eorzea in the past too? Maybe? This doesn't apply to the reclusive Raen, it's not too much of a stretch to believe they wouldn't have made it after all this time. It's just the very "nomadic" trait of the Xaela that doesn't sit well.

Valence Valence Find all posts by this user Has-A-Magitek-Kink Posts:1,177 Joined:Oct 2015 Character:Suen Shyu Server:Balmung Reputation: 119 Timezone:UTC+1 RE: Brainstorming an Au Ra Dark Knight origin. Need to be lore-checked. | #32 06-02-2016, 01:40 PM For all we know maybe Ilsabard is not connected either to Eorzea and Othard and Xaelas are just bad Sailors... Though it would make sense (it would even have to be) that sea contacts with eorzean ships would obviously have made them known at least to a few..  I think it might well be like for the New World: it is explicitely stated that ships have interactions with it but the lore has yet to be expanded around it... It is there and we know that maybe some eorzeans have heard about what is there, but us the players dont know (yet?). Balmung: Suen Shyu

Warren Castille Warren Castille Find all posts by this user The Arbiter Posts:5,367 Joined:May 2014 Character:Warren Castille Server:Balmung Reputation: 1,118 Timezone:UTC-5 RE: Brainstorming an Au Ra Dark Knight origin. Need to be lore-checked. | #33 06-02-2016, 02:02 PM I think it's one of those "Real life dictated something happens, even if it makes zero sense in-game." It's generally assumed/understood that there weren't supposed to be more races added in 1.0, and the world lore is built around that. It makes zero sense for a world as technologically and magically advanced as Hydaelyn to suddenly have a race spring up overnight that no one knew about, and we've discussed frequently before how nonsense it is for everywhere to just take them at face value, given they all come from Imperial lands and we JUST went through MSQ stuff regarding deep-rooted spies prior to them arriving. Au Ra didn't come to Eorzea sooner because something something shoehorned in blah blah expansion hype etcetera. Wiki | The Grindstone 2018 17 | 16 | 15

Sounsyy Sounsyy Find all posts by this user Lore Momger Posts:1,987 Joined:Jul 2013 Character:Sounsyy Mirke Server:Balmung Reputation: 854 Timezone:UTC-5 RE: Brainstorming an Au Ra Dark Knight origin. Need to be lore-checked. | #34 06-02-2016, 03:16 PM (This post was last modified: 09-11-2016, 02:30 PM by Sounsyy.) (06-02-2016, 12:43 PM)allgivenover Wrote: Not directly related, but have you or anyone come across any explanation for why Xaela just... were totally absent from Eorzea? We're talking about a race of nomads that's existed for a very, very long time that somehow hasn't managed to make its way to Eorzea, a diverse land made up of immigrant populations. In reality, what Warren said is most accurate. The Au Ra popped into existence because we wanted a new race. And it doesn't necessarily make a ton of sense why a nomadic race connected via landbridge hasn't made its way to Eorzea in the last 1600 years. The lore explanation is this, that Au Ra likely have come to Eorzea in the distant past, but never came (with the aforementioned exceptions!) during the 6th Astral Era, or when they came before, they were wiped out by calamity or left on their own accord and never came back until recently. While the race lore specifies precisely when the Miqo'te entered Eorzea during the 5th Umbral Calamity, the other races are less specific. Elezen came first, Lalafell came when sea trade routes opened between their islands and Eorzea (aka founding of limsa), Hyur came in three migratory waves only 1000 years ago... but Fernehalwes tells us that these less specific time frames account only for the 6th Astral Era! That in another Era, the Lalafell were first in Eorzea and claimed dominion over it. In another, like the Allagan Era, the Hyur were dominant. Because the histories become lost, or in the case of the early 6th Astral Era, a 400 year purge of all science, magic, education, and books - Eorzeans lose a great deal of history and knowledge with every Calamity and "forget" their roots. Gamerescape Fanfest 2014 Interview Wrote:MCKF: Most of the races don’t really like each other and it”s gone on through multiple Eras. There are times when Eorzea has been more populated by one race over another and there will be conflict there. With the Hyur and Elezen, that’s very recent. In the sixth astral era, Elezen migrated in and in that era they were like “we’re the first ones here!” even though they weren’t, but they were the first at the beginning of the sixth astral era and they settled and of course the pesky Hyur who are everywhere come in and the Elezen are like “oh my god we left you that whole continent up there why are you here!” and the Lalafell come in and you have these cycles of clashing and moving part and that gets ingrained in their society and their racial cultures. A: This kinda indirectly answers another question that came up about if the Hyur are such recent arrivals, how come they’re all the Allag we’ve seen. So that explains that if it’s a constant flux we may have just forgotten they were here. MCKF: And you haven’t’ seen all the Allagans yet. A: And if we’re going to look at the game mechanics as cannon they had outfits that fit all the races. MCKF: You look at the Garleans and again, the Garleans are a different race, the pure-blood ones with the third eye. But when you look at the army they have people of all races because they go and subjugate a nation and tell people they can gain citizenship if you join our army and prove your worth. So that’s why you have so many soldiers that are Elezen, because all the real Garleans are back home ruling while their conscripts conquer the land, sometimes using the magic that they can’t. Fernehalwes Wrote:Now, as for how the Au Ra are regarded by others living in Eorzea, while there was racial tension in past ages, recently with the onset of the Age of Adventure and an influx in the amount of people of all races flocking to Eorzea, there truly isn’t any form of heavy discrimination towards the Au Ra (it also helps that because very few Au Ra ever visited Eorzea before, there is little deep-seated hate stemming from historical conflict). However, because they are new to Eorzea and there is much mystery surrounding them, a lot of native Eorzeans are still a bit wary (even if they don’t really know why). Because we do have interesting lore that Xaela have covered great distances in the past. We know of the three instances of Xaela coming to Eorzea in the last 100 years. We even have known Au Ra (likely Xaela) in Ilsabard, the continent to the northeast via the Odin legend. Wind-up Odin Wrote:Many have pondered why a Dark Divinity with roots in northern mythology would wield a blade with a decidedly Far Eastern name. A popular theory is that Odin acquired the blade upon slaying an Auri warrior who was the first ever to notch his theretofore unsullied plate. __________________________ (06-02-2016, 01:40 PM)Valence Wrote: For all we know maybe Ilsabard is not connected either to Eorzea and Othard and Xaelas are just bad Sailors... Though it would make sense (it would even have to be) that sea contacts with eorzean ships would obviously have made them known at least to a few..  I also personally find it hard to believe that since Limsa Lominsa has been trading with Othard for hundreds of years and has continued to do so even after Garlemald's complete occupation of the Far Eastern continent some 25-30 years ago that there wouldn't be some Auri merchants in at least Limsa. Especially when you consider there are seafaring tribes of Xaela and many of the Raen settlements are on Othard's eastern coast or the islands surrounding it, necessitating that they are somewhat seafaring as well. But perhaps that is why? Every seafaring tribe of Xaela and the Raen all live on Othard's eastern coastline, meaning to get there you'd be forced to sail south under Othard and then travel halfway around the world westward to reach Eorzea. Which is what Yugiri's Raen did, but still not a fun journey. Anyways, it has been 100% confirmed that Aldenard, Ilsabard, and Othard are all connected via landbridge. The continents make a ^ shape. So... ...........|Ilsabard| |Aldenard|.......|Othard| Gamerescape Lorecast #7 Wrote:East of Ala Mhigo, there’s a land-bridge leading into what has been identified only as Garlean territory. The other continents are oft spoken of, but in vague terms. Some interpreted the land-bridge as leading into Ilsabard, which both continues north but connects to Othard <pronouncing Othard as Oh-thard> in the east, while others have interpreted it as Othard itself, continuing east with Ilsabard connecting to it directly north. Can we clear that up? KF: First, I want to clear up your pronunciation of Oth-ard. A: Oh, no! <laughs> KF: I don’t think we’ve ever really said it anywhere. F: Funny that pronunciation comes up, back when we did that pronunciation thing you told us Dzemael was closer to Zay-mail but in Heavesnsward it’s ze-My-l. KF: That‘s wrong! That is wrong! <laughing> I need to … go and burn … It’s Zay-mail! A: Now that you mention it, though, when Gaius first lands in Vylbrand, the voiced guy does say Othard. It stuck in my head because in another language he says he’s from Rabanastre. KF: Guess where Rabanastre iiis! <laughs> There’s also a line in the Japanese version where they name-drop Dalmasss—<throat clearing> It’s not in English, but that’s where it is and maybe someday we’ll be seeing some of <heavy throat clearing>. But yes, that land bridge connects directly to Ilsabard. You cannot get to Othard from there without going through Ilsabard. So there’s the land bridge and it goes into Islabard <emphatic hand gestures>. A: That’s what I thought at first, but someone asked in the forums and I was like, “Actually, no, I can’t say for sure…” But I went back and watched this old panel and you were doing the same <laughing> hand gestures and I was like, “Oh, man, it could be.” KF: They got mad at me! They were like, “Don’t do that thing with your hands, people are looking into that!” Nooo, they’re nooot. “Yes, they are!” F: And that‘s the guy <points at Anwyll> Right here. A: Speaking of! We finally did find the other thing there with the uh, the Demon Tome. The hidden vertical “Cthulhu Fhtagn”. Took a while, but we got it! KF: Thank you! But, yeah, in the end, think of [Aldenard into Ilsabard] as like, a LEGO brick with another one stuck onto it. __________________________ (06-02-2016, 01:40 PM)Valence Wrote: I think it might well be like for the New World: it is explicitely stated that ships have interactions with it but the lore has yet to be expanded around it... It is there and we know that maybe some eorzeans have heard about what is there, but us the players dont know (yet?). We know very little about the New World because it was only discovered (or rediscovered as the case may very well be) about 22 years ago by Merlwyb Bloefhiswyn before she became admiral. Merlwyb's crew, the League of Lost Bastards, are accredited with opening trade routes between Limsa and the New World, specifically the (as yet only known) native peoples there, the Mamool Ja. Quick note from Fernehalwes though! "Mamool Ja" is the term from being from a nation, not the beastrace. We call them Mamool Ja because they are from Mamook, like we would call a Lalafell from Limsa a Lominsan. Gamerescape Lorecast #7 Wrote:Why do Mamool Ja warriors and mages look so different? This has been on my mind since XI! KF: It’s because Mamool Ja is not a race, it’s a nation made up of multiple races. It’s like “American”. It was the same in XI. So there’s the New World in the west and there’s a nation made up of multiple races and there’s only two that we’ve seen that come to Eorzea to work as mercenaries. A: These two are just closely related? KF: Right. A: Alright, that makes sense, ’cause <to Fusionx> Remember, XI, the uh, Mamool Ja Sahagin? Just regular old… it’s all comin’ back! F: It’s all comin’ together! <laughs> Mamook Pear Wrote:A bitter fruit found growing in the arid soils of Mamook. While typically avoided by the five races, and even the Mamool Ja themselves, it is a favorite amongst chocobos, and is known to deepen the green hues of their feathers. There's a few other things we know about the New World but it's painfully limited. Likely because there hasn't been travel there since the 3rd Astral Era or the 5th Umbral Era. But most everything the modern Eorzean knows about the New World is 100% filtered through the rumors of Lominsan pirates and merchants. So if you're not one of the two, you probably don't know too much ICly about it. Over the Horizon Wrote:Though there is some debate as to whether or not Merlwyb Bloefhiswyn and her League of Lost Bastards were the first Eorzeans to discover the western continent, there is no denying that their navigational charts were instrumental in establishing the major trade routes of today. Moreover, the accounts from their expedition are widely regarded as both informative and entertaining. of particular note is their first encounter with the Mamool Ja, as well as other indigenous peoples and creatures which seemed curiously intent on their demise. These travel journals have since inspired a legion of explorers and treasure hunters to retrace the League's journey. Yet in spite of their numbers, the existence of a "bleedin' city o' gold" remains unconfirmed... Helmsman's Hand Wrote:"From the Deep rose Helmsman's Hand For to aid Lady Bloefhiswyn. In his wake, she set her course And lo, was led to foreign shores." From O'er Westward Seas -Gilbert Goldenlocks, 1556 Sixth Astral Era Aqua del Sol Wrote:Literally meaning "water of the sun," Aqua del Sol was originally brought back by expeditions to the New World far across the Indigo Deep. Not long after, Eorzeans began making their own variation of the drink from the sabotenders and cactuars of Thanalan. Dodozan Wrote:I was most pleased to discover the attitude of acceptance towards beastmen traders here in Limsa Lominsa. My fellow Ul'dahn merchants openly despise such savage peddlers, you see, but I believe there are opportunities being missed. The Mamool Ja, for example, are a hardy race that hail from the lands to the west, and their skill at arms is their primary export. A quality source of mercenaries, if you ask me. The bulging packs of goblins? They often contain naught of value, but it is worth sifting through the junk for that one rare treasure. And the Qiqirn? Look no further should you wish to trade for ore or gemstones. Toritate Wrote:Thought 'e might o' taken the loot with 'im, but the only thing missin's what was in this 'ere chest. Accordin' to yon shopkeep, it weren't naught but a pile o' Mamool Ja coinage, and that ain't worth it's weight in shite to anyone this side o' the Deep. Exceptin' the Mamool Ja, that is... No Eorzean merchant'd touch that stuff with a forty-yalm bargepole, but chances are it's still o' some value to the beasts. 'Ere, ye don't reckon the rat bastard's gone off to 'ire 'imself a lizardman army, do ye? Manxome Molaa Ja Ja Wrote:Manxome Molaa Ja Ja is both leader and second-in-command of the Silverscales mercenary band. Two-headed Mamool Ja are born, albeit rarely, to the tribes of the west, and are known for their superior intellect and brawn. Such specimens invariably rise to positions of prominence and power. Abazi Charazi Wrote:Now, the tonberries aren't friends of mine, but even I think the way the Mamool Ja have 'em imprisoned is wrong. Capturin' them, turnin' them into thralls... Go and give those sellswords hell! Note: Suggests the Mamool Ja may also have a primal deity? Bugaal Ja Wrote:Smoothskin shows kindness to Bugaal Ja. Bugaal Ja repays kindness, shares proud Mamool Ja tradition with all! But dance cannot be danced with body soiled. This is Mamool Ja custom, and custom must not be broken. But enough talk─soiled body needs cleansing. But Mamool Ja must not wash own body. This, too, is Mamool Ja way. Traditional Mamool Ja bathing dance is dance of pleasure, dance of life-giving! Every lift of leg, every sway of hips is sacred. When you dance Mamool Ja bathing dance, you must summon vitality from the very depths of your soul. Popoto Wrote:A starchy tuberous vegetable originally introduced to Eorzea by explorers from the distant western continent. Reagan Pepper Wrote:A variety of pepper native to the New World. Its bitterness has made it a favorite of chocobos. Mimett Gourd Wrote:A large fleshy squash brought back from the New World by Lominsan explorers. While too sweet for most people's tastes, chocobos are known to enjoy the flavor, and thus the gourds are often used as fodder for the animals. Pahsana Fruit Wrote:A bright red tomato-like fruit brought back from the New World by Lominsan explorers. While too tangy for most people's tastes, chocobos are known to enjoy the flavor, and thus the fruits are often used as fodder for the animals. Tiny Tapir Wrote:Natives of the New World claim that tapirs grow by devouring the dreams of their unsuspecting owners. And now you know what to expect. Acorn Snail Wrote:Believed to have hitched a ride on the hull of a trade ship, the acorn snail is an invasive species originally from the New World, far to the west. As it has few natural predators in Eorzea, its numbers have exploded in recent years. Anaoc Wrote:I heard that the New Worlders use fish livers as fertilizer, and so I thought I would give toad livers a try. A farmer can't be afraid to try new things. Nay, he must grow his knowledge as he grows his crops. More world geography lore here. Sounsyy Mirke | Razia Haiib | R'jahkob Nunh >>|Sounsyy's Lore Post Index|<<

Zhu Zhu Find all posts by this user Professional Outcast Posts:53 Joined:Feb 2014 Character:Koro Dotharl Server:Balmung Reputation: 11 Timezone:UTC+2 RE: Brainstorming an Au Ra Dark Knight origin. Need to be lore-checked. | #35 06-02-2016, 08:53 PM (This post was last modified: 06-03-2016, 12:09 PM by Zhu.) After a lot of thinking, I have decided not to go through with this idea and to play a simple swordsman instead. While we did established that it is indeed possible for an Au'ra dark knight to be made, the necessary IC loopholes, the lore bending and the suspension of belief required to all that would interact with me are in my opinion not worth it. When I first came up with the idea, I had figured it would be much more simple but I underestimated the importance that Ishgard have to this job, a city and a society that does not appeal to me in the slightest. And thus I can't RP something so bound to that place (or well, I don't want to). I could have gone through with "the mentor is an exile" route, but I don't think I should. I do not usually take issues with bending the lore a little bit (thus proposing this idea in the first place) but there are limits to how much something can bend before you break it. And I believe this is where I draw the line for myself and my own standards. It is true that some valid arguments were made in favor of the concept, but it would make me feel too much like Sidurgu. A lore figure that is special even by his main character standards. And that is not something I am comfortable to roleplay AS (not with, mind. I will never say what others can and cannot do, my point is about what I am doing for myself and my own enjoyment). In the past few days, I have read many awesome posts of people offering their kindness and advice and some sent me very supportive PMs that gave me hope and inspired me to try write more about it. And that is why posting this is a bit difficult for me, I do hope they wont feel betrayed. But ultimately I shall put the lore above my own desires, least I end up RPing in another universe altogether before I realize it. Even within the boundaries imposed by myself and the lore I am sure I can still make a character worth RPing with and as, which I am eager to present! But please do not think all of this talk was for naught. If it wasn't for the feedback I read in here, I would have gone through with it and again, I would have still come to this conclusion. The harsh way. So thank you everyone for your wisdom and support! I'll be seeing you in Eorzea and beyond.

allgivenover allgivenover Find all posts by this user 星魔法少女 Posts:1,027 Joined:Feb 2013 Character:Kurenai Nagi Server: ---------------- Reputation: 108 RE: Brainstorming an Au Ra Dark Knight origin. Need to be lore-checked. | #36 06-02-2016, 09:10 PM Ah... I didn't intend for my question to deter you from pursuing DRK RP. It really isn't that big a deal and if you want to do it, do it.

Zhu Zhu Find all posts by this user Professional Outcast Posts:53 Joined:Feb 2014 Character:Koro Dotharl Server:Balmung Reputation: 11 Timezone:UTC+2 RE: Brainstorming an Au Ra Dark Knight origin. Need to be lore-checked. | #37 06-02-2016, 09:13 PM (This post was last modified: 06-02-2016, 09:17 PM by Zhu.) (06-02-2016, 09:10 PM)allgivenover Wrote: Ah... I didn't intend for my question to deter you from pursuing DRK RP. It really isn't that big a deal and if you want to do it, do it. Ah don't worry it's not about that at all! I just don't feel confident about it anymore for a couple of reasons. One being that I am anxious by nature and would constantly worry about people thinking I am a sknowflake. The woes of having a fragile personality. Perhaps someone more expeienced and thick skinned could recycle this cocnept. I don't mind. The more RPers do it right the easier it will be for others to take example. It just can't start with me.

Valence Valence Find all posts by this user Has-A-Magitek-Kink Posts:1,177 Joined:Oct 2015 Character:Suen Shyu Server:Balmung Reputation: 119 Timezone:UTC+1 RE: Brainstorming an Au Ra Dark Knight origin. Need to be lore-checked. | #38 06-03-2016, 04:59 AM (This post was last modified: 06-03-2016, 05:01 AM by Valence.) (06-02-2016, 08:53 PM)Zhu Wrote: After a lot of thinking, I have decided not to through with this idea and to play a simple swordsman instead. While we did established that it is indeed possible for an Au'ra dark knight to be made, the necessary IC loopholes, the lore bending and the suspension of belief required to all that would interact with me are in my opinion not worth it. When I first came up with the idea, I had figured it would be much more simple but I underestimated the importance that Ishgard have to this job, a city and a society that does not appeal to me in the slightest. And thus I can't RP something so bound to that place (or well, I don't want to). I could have gone through with "the mentor is an exile" route, but I don't think I should. I do not usually take issues with bending the lore a little bit (thus proposing this idea in the first place) but there are limits to how much something can bend before you break it. And I believe this is where I draw the line for myself and my own standards. It is true that some valid arguments were made in favor of the concept, but it would make me feel too much like Sidurgu. A lore figure that is special even by his main character standards. And that is not something I am comfortable to roleplay AS (not with, mind. I will never say what others can and cannot do, my point is about what I am doing for myself and my own enjoyment). In the past few days, I have read many awesome posts of people offering their kindness and advice and some sent me very supportive PMs that gave me hope and inspired me to try write more about it. And that is why posting this is a bit difficult for me, I do hope they wont feel betrayed. But ultimately I shall put the lore above my own desires, least I end up RPing in another universe altogether before I realize it. Even within the boundaries imposed by myself and the lore I am sure I can still make a character worth RPing with and as, which I am eager to present! But please do not think all of this talk was for naught. If it wasn't for the feedback I read in here, I would have gone through with it and again, I would have still come to this conclusion. The harsh way. So thank you everyone for your wisdom and support! I'll be seeing you in Eorzea and beyond. To me there is no real lore bending here. The thing is possible: Sounssy demonstrated it above. I think you nailed what the real crux of the matter is though: the character 'specialness'. All those specific events and chains of events in her background eventually add up to give something rather... special yeah. I wouldn't say special snowflaky though. Not that far. Glad it works out for you though, as simple modest characters are often the most nuanced and three dimensional anyway. Balmung: Suen Shyu

Caspar Caspar Find all posts by this user Apricot Pit Posts:1,407 Joined:Dec 2014 Character:Virara Wakuwa Server:Balmung Reputation: 256 Timezone:UTC-8 RE: Brainstorming an Au Ra Dark Knight origin. Need to be lore-checked. | #39 06-03-2016, 09:17 AM (This post was last modified: 06-03-2016, 09:46 AM by Caspar.) I liked every concept and I strongly urge you not to can a character because of any negative feedback you might have received here. To me specialness isn't necessarily a huge dealbreaker. Are there probably people playing that kind of concept already? Sure. Are you necessarily going to play with them? No. It won't always be such that you run into people who will have similarly exotic backgrounds that conflict with fleeting concepts like "rarity" in a vague setting. I don't think player concepts have to reflect demographics in the setting. If you want to play an exception to the rule that's fine. I see way more " justaswordsman" than actual Dark Knights who play the job itself personally.  But if it's not really your style to play a character that has an unorthodox background, there's nothing to be done about it. It's ultimately about what you feel happiest playing, and also what you think will be well received. 「蒼気砲」を使わざるを得ない! AV by Kura-Ou Wiki (Last updated 01/16) My Balmung profile.

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