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Sunwins · **08-16-2016, 04:07 AM**

I main a WHM and an AST, and I don't stance dance on either of them. I've also never been asked to DPS when I wasn't in cleric stance, tanks don't really seem to care - or maybe I've just had crazy good luck in getting tanks who don't mind one way or another.

In low level dungeons, generally I'll try a bit more to shift stances when everyone's fully healed to help DPS, but especially on my AST (who has awful DPS anyway so rlly what's the point), I generally only throw up a few dots before I shift out of cleric stance again.

I dunno, I didn't pick a healing class to DPS. If I wanted to DPS, I would've gone Bard, or Summoner- and honestly sometimes when you get bot tanks or new players who are still learning their classes, I find it safer just to sit back and heal. But that's what I think!

Valence · **08-16-2016, 04:23 AM**

(08-15-2016, 09:56 PM)Gegenji Wrote: . Granted, it's a bit easier as a SCH, since you have your fairy helping to cover healing and it's more a matter of tossing up your dots and then switching back to Lustrate and Adlo and some other topping off before refreshing dem dots. Totally wish we had SMN's "PUT ALL THE DOTS UP" ability, but what're you gonna do?

Well, for a WhM, the fairy is regen, really. And regen with divine seal is like the fairy with rouse or something.

And you should have Bane from ACN right? To spread the dots?

Kage · **08-16-2016, 06:59 AM**

(08-16-2016, 04:23 AM)Valence Wrote:
(08-15-2016, 09:56 PM)Gegenji Wrote: . Totally wish we had SMN's "PUT ALL THE DOTS UP" ability, but what're you gonna do?

And you should have Bane from ACN right? To spread the dots?

I haven't touched SMN since like a year ago but iirc 60 SMN can refresh all its dots like BRD with 1 action. I dont think he is referring to Bane. has tri-disaster at lvl 58 that inflicts the dots with certain durations (better than a refresher).

Anyway, a healer who is doing nothing while I am not taking damage with my big hp and is dancing away or jumping around is the same as an ice mage as well as a DPS sitting in aoes all the time or a GLA in Praetorium or a DRK in lost city normal with an i44weapon that doesn't use unleash, or a lvl59 tank in gubal library who has shit health because he is wearing a cp earring and nothing in his choker slot in my opinion.

I won't berate you. I may say something encouraging or give you a tip. But I will most likely bitch and vent about it somewhere.

Enla · **08-16-2016, 07:04 AM**

Honestly I've been trying to weave in stance dancing more now that I'm turning Odile into my main and am thus re-leveling all the classes again, but I've always been a fairly cautious healer. First and second time through an instance I'll likely keep to only throwing out Aero I, II, and III dots for the vast majority of the content - peppering in a Cleric Stance'd Assize here and there both as an MP regen and as a high powered stab. Third time is usually when I start getting comfortable enough to DPS for most of the instance, barring a near wipe, and after that I do it as needed. If I'm in a raid and the other healer wishes to DPS, I'll stick to purely healing. If the other healer wishes to stick to pure heals then I'll take on the roll of mixing in my DPS stance. Etc. Etc.

I will say though that if I'm having issues with the rest of the party, be it the tank or the DPS not using cooldowns and standing in the damage puddles then I tend to reign myself in and stick to healing exclusively. I'd rather be accused of slowing the dungeon down by keeping to my Aero dots exclusively than blink into Cleric's Stance only for the problematic party member to eat a cleave and a damage puddle before I can successfully pop off a non-Cleric'd Tetra.

All in all I very much think it's up to the comfort of the person involved and the situation they find themselves in. I'm not going to begrudge another healer for failing to DPS outside of specific circumstances. In fact the only time I ever get annoyed is when I'm running the first few dungeons and the healer literally just occasionally throws out a cure while otherwise picking their nose... If the healer has the job above thirty, and thus should know the instance by now, I expect them to at least throw in an Aero rather than Hildebrand the night away between heals.

Gegenji · **08-16-2016, 08:19 AM**

(08-16-2016, 06:59 AM)Kage Wrote:
(08-16-2016, 04:23 AM)Valence Wrote:
(08-15-2016, 09:56 PM)Gegenji Wrote: . Totally wish we had SMN's "PUT ALL THE DOTS UP" ability, but what're you gonna do?

And you should have Bane from ACN right? To spread the dots?
I haven't touched SMN since like a year ago but iirc 60 SMN can refresh all its dots like BRD with 1 action. I dont think he is referring to Bane. has tri-disaster at lvl 58 that inflicts the dots with certain durations (better than a refresher).

Yus, that's the ability I'm referring to. Being able to throw up all three DoTs at the push of a button is delightful. And Garuda-Egi can extend them so you can often spend even less time keeping them up. While I don't expect the latter at any point on SCH, I wouldn't mind if they provided a similar function to the former. Laugh

But yeah. As long as you LOOK like you're doing your job as a healer, I likely won't tend to bother you. It's if I'm dying to simple stuff or I see you actively making your "boredom" known that I start to get irritated.

Valence · **08-16-2016, 08:53 AM**

SCH is already OP as it is /shudders

Melkire · **08-16-2016, 09:06 AM**

Unpopular opinion, comin' through.

If we're in a leveling dungeon together, and you - as a healer - are not popping CS, or perhaps not even DPSing at all, I won't mind. Maybe you're still learning the class/job. Maybe you're not comfortable with this instance yet. Maybe this is your first time through, and you're a newbie to the game.

But if you're in Expert Roulette with me -- and we're running a level 60 dungeon that has been out for weeks or months by now -- and it's obvious that you are not putting forth your best effort? That you're still so uncomfortable that you can't be bothered to try and tap at least most of your job's potential? That you could be helping to make the run go by faster, but instead you're playing it way, wayyyyy too safe? Then hell yes, you're goddamned right I am going to mind.

I probably won't say anything to you. I probably won't air my grievances out of a desire to keep the peace and provide a safe, entertaining environment rather than a stressful one. I'll probably keep my gob shut and just get it over with. But you can rest assured that I'm as livid with your minimal-effort healing as you are with eating-all-the-avoidable-AoEs DPS and with the tanks who don't seem to know that they have defensive cooldowns.

Kage · **08-16-2016, 09:15 AM**

(08-16-2016, 09:06 AM)Melkire Wrote: Unpopular opinion, comin' through.

If we're in a leveling dungeon together, and you - as a healer - are not popping CS, or perhaps not even DPSing at all, I won't mind. Maybe you're still learning the class/job. Maybe you're not comfortable with this instance yet. Maybe this is your first time through, and you're a newbie to the game.

But if you're in Expert Roulette with me -- and we're running a level 60 dungeon that has been out for weeks or months by now -- and it's obvious that you are not putting forth your best effort? That you're still so uncomfortable that you can't be bothered to try and tap at least most of your job's potential? That you could be helping to make the run go by faster, but instead you're playing it way, wayyyyy too safe? Then hell yes, you're goddamned right I am going to mind.

I probably won't say anything to you. I probably won't air my grievances out of a desire to keep the peace and provide a safe, entertaining environment rather than a stressful one. I'll probably keep my gob shut and just get it over with. But you can rest assured that I'm as livid with your minimal-effort healing as you are with eating-all-the-avoidable-AoEs DPS and with the tanks who don't seem to know that they have defensive cooldowns.

But let's be real. You're still better than that tank who berated a recently-resubbed NIN in i180 gear (and whatever else needed to get into the new 60 experts) for being in an 'expert roulette and not being i230' and not moving, all before leaving the circle at the start of the duty.

Charity322 · **08-16-2016, 09:25 AM**

Ok this is embarrassing seeing as I have a level 30 Tank, but better to ask now than get yelled at in a dungeon. What the hell is a defensive cooldown?

Gegenji · **08-16-2016, 09:26 AM**

... Is it bad that I don't look at people's gear unless they have an interesting look or I already think they're not pulling their weight? I don't think I've ever opened any dungeon, trial, or raid with inspecting the gear of my teammates. I really don't care what their gear is unless we're actually being hindered by it or it looks neat. Blush

And defensive cooldowns are moves like Foresight, Bloodbath, and the like that either directly raise your defensive stats or otherwise boost your survivability. Most of them are on relatively short cooldowns, too, so there's nothing wrong with popping them as needed to help your healer.

Kage · **08-16-2016, 09:32 AM**

(08-16-2016, 09:26 AM)Gegenji Wrote: ... Is it bad that I don't look at people's gear unless they have an interesting look or I already think they're not pulling their weight? I don't think I've ever opened any dungeon, trial, or raid with inspecting the gear of my teammates. I really don't care what their gear is unless we're actually being hindered by it or it looks neat.

I typically do it as a tank when I want to see what I think the party may be comfortable doing and adjust as it goes.

I definitely do it when I feel something is off. Like, "why is the tank hp only 1k more than my own? ... oh there is a cp earring and no choker. This explains why healing you is a bitch."

(08-16-2016, 09:25 AM)Charity322 Wrote: Ok this is embarrassing seeing as I have a level 30 Tank, but better to ask now than get yelled at in a dungeon. What the hell is a defensive cooldown?

They are typically the abilities that reduce damage or buff your hp. Such abilities include*: Foresight, Convalescence, Thrill of Battle, Vengeance, Sentinel, Bloodbath, Second Wind, Awareness, Rampart, and Hallowed Ground.

Gegenji · **08-16-2016, 09:38 AM**

(08-16-2016, 09:32 AM)Kage Wrote:
(08-16-2016, 09:26 AM)Gegenji Wrote: ... Is it bad that I don't look at people's gear unless they have an interesting look or I already think they're not pulling their weight? I don't think I've ever opened any dungeon, trial, or raid with inspecting the gear of my teammates. I really don't care what their gear is unless we're actually being hindered by it or it looks neat.
I typically do it as a tank when I want to see what I think the party may be comfortable doing and adjust as it goes.

I definitely do it when I feel something is off. Like, "why is the tank hp only 1k more than my own? ... oh there is a cp earring and no choker. This explains why healing you is a bitch."

I... uh... usually just look at the classes themselves. If we have good AoE, I'll do bigger pulls. If we're running single-DPS classes like MNKs and DRGs, I'll usually do smaller pulls. I definitely give a closer look if something seems off, though - that "why do I nearly have as much health as the tank" situation included. Though, I don't think I've run into anyone wearing crafting gear to fill slots. Surprise

Charity322 · **08-16-2016, 09:41 AM**

(08-16-2016, 09:32 AM)Kage Wrote: They are typically the abilities that reduce damage or buff your hp. Such abilities include*: Foresight, Convalescence, Thrill of Battle, Vengeance, Sentinel, Bloodbath, Second Wind, Awareness, Rampart, and Hallowed Ground.

Ok, I have some of those. I tend to only use them for a boss seeing as they don't last for very long and have a longer wait before you can cast them again.

Gegenji
I... uh... usually just look at the classes themselves. If we have good AoE, I'll do bigger pulls. If we're running single-DPS classes like MNKs and DRGs, I'll usually do smaller pulls. I definitely give a closer look if something seems off, though - that "why do I nearly have as much health as the tank" situation included. Though, I don't think I've run into anyone wearing crafting gear to fill slots.

Done. Was quite surprised myself when I checked my gear after a few levels and discovered I'd been increasing my crafting points in battle for God only knows how long. Stupid earrings all look the same. Tongue

Kage · **08-16-2016, 09:48 AM**

(08-16-2016, 09:38 AM)Gegenji Wrote: I... uh... usually just look at the classes themselves. If we have good AoE, I'll do bigger pulls. If we're running single-DPS classes like MNKs and DRGs, I'll usually do smaller pulls. I definitely give a closer look if something seems off, though - that "why do I nearly have as much health as the tank" situation included. Though, I don't think I've run into anyone wearing crafting gear to fill slots.

Everyone tells me that I have the worst DF pug luck they know. From tanks in not even DoW gear to ice mages with gathering gear...

Playing with all jobs and in my experience, MNK and DRGs actually have pretty good AOE it's just letting them know and having the DPS to support it. AKA MNKs and DRGs can do short big pulls that aren't too long. Like I actually don't like the Anti-tower last trash pull that some people do. The room has waves so if you pull the hallway corridor into it, Invigorate and the other TP from Chakra thing won't keep me up long enough and I'll end up only doing Rockbuster more. Then again, there's a lot of melee who don't know how to AOE.

It's just, in the end I want people to put their best foot forward and run at their potential and efficiency. Even while lazy DPSing, I'm still watching how fast I kill things (or not) and do my best. Drives me insane when people talk about netflix and chilling wile they just see about "but did you wipe?"

/triggered by just typing "but did you wipe?"

Xerintha · **08-16-2016, 10:17 AM**

I've been reading this thread with interest and did try the stance dance yesterday in a group of friends. It wasn't tough but then they all knew exactly what they were doing and what to expect and were all 60 outside of the sync. I was the newbie baby 50 WHM there so I felt safe enough to experiment a little. They also gave me a few pointers I hadn't thought of so that helped.

One thing I do find that is difficult is if I'm in a roulette PUG and everyone takes off the instant we can. This puts some out of reach of the Protect buff and gives me no time to readjust my hot bar to accommodate the level of the dungeon. That first pull can be damn dicey and I don't like getting yelled at for people dying when I'm not ready yet. Yes, I look to see where I am and start my ability swap out but sometimes I'm just not fast enough.Â

As a caveat, I have one hot bar I use for soloing and another I use for healing. I always shift to the healing one before I queue up but I leave it set at my current level. If I end up in a lower level place some of my available abilities are out of easy reach and I need to move them into the first 6 positions.

I suppose I'm one of those overly careful sorts but you definitely won't see me dancing away or sitting with my thumb up my arse either! :p

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If you ask me to stancedance one more fucking time..

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