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Arcian · **09-21-2016, 04:14 PM**

(Disclaimer: the assertions below are, of course, just my opinion, and I am perfectly aware of the fact that I'm being quite blunt.)

I'm sort of in the same boat as Killeit in the sense that after RPing in WoW for ten years (Sentinels and then WrA), I am absolutely done with people insisting that OOC achievements affect RP.

Someone has a server first kill on A8S? Congrats. They have my respect for their skill at PvE. (And I might also ask to talk rotations/optimization with them if they play monk.)

They've created an engaging, well-written character that people enjoy interacting with? Congrats. They have my respect for their skill at writing and roleplaying. (And I might also ask to RP with them sometime.)

But if someone starts being like, "Oh, my character is the Warrior of Light, and they've killed every Primal and a ton of Garleans and saved the world about a dozen times, and since I've cleared MSQ and have all the achievements and all the classes capped and all the content cleared, that automatically makes them inherently believable if they start asserting this IC," then I'm just gonna shake my head and walk away.

In my opinion, cleared content does not automatically translate to a more realistic/believable/respectable character. If someone's claiming to have done something huge (or multiple things) IC that's canonically ascribed to a deliberately vague and undefined hero, I'm inclined to be deeply skeptical and want to avoid them no matter what content they've done, because it feels like powergaming dressed up in a fancy outfit.

I've met RPers who are truly, hilariously shitty at endgame content. I've also met raiders who are truly, hilariously shitty writers. Skill at one facet of the game does not automatically translate to skill or "owed" respect in another.

As far as I'm concerned, if someone wants to play a formidable, yet believable character? Then they can show that through writing instead of leaning on EX/Savage clears and expecting the rest of the server to accept it without question.

TL;DR - I care less about credibility than I do plausibility.

Aaron · **09-21-2016, 04:22 PM**

But like, what if say a group is running a dungeon ICly and one guy goes "Hey, want to see who's the better fighter? Kill that creature before I kill mine."

Granted for controversy, similar ilvls and all both are of the same job (dps/healer/tank)

Arcian · **09-21-2016, 04:30 PM**

(09-21-2016, 04:22 PM)Aaron Wrote: But like, what if say a group is running a dungeon ICly and one guy goes "Hey, want to see who's the better fighter? Kill that creature before I kill mine."

Granted for controversy, similar ilvls and all both are of the same job (dps/healer/tank)

I think there's a difference between two people ICly seeing who can gank marmots faster and claiming that since you have Seph EX or whatever on farm, people should accept that your character is automatically better than theirs in combat IC.

Not the best example, but you get what I'm saying.

Valence · **09-21-2016, 04:34 PM**

(09-21-2016, 03:37 PM)Renault Delumiere Wrote: If a player claims that their character is a better smith than yours, has specialists in each profession, leveled to maximum, with fully melded gear, and all of the achievements, would you not be more inclined to humor that claim than if they were a level 1 crafter?

I wouldn't personally. It's all about writing skills and believability and story and... what makes up roleplay.

And I'm not really sure I want to get into RP when it comes to epeen character contests honestly. I guess I'm in RP circles where I don't have to worry too much about that. Especially since I'm rather hardcore into the mundane, average characters I want into my RP.

No, I just think that having those OOC achievements behind can just paint a more consistent background. It gives weight to things.

You know, a bit how you can perfectly RP you have a gun in your hands, but you don't have leveled machinist. Well, when you have, you actually show the gun in your hands. It adds no more credibility nor validates anything more. But it adds immersion.

To me it's a bit more similar to what glamour is to RP. It's another form of glamour for more immersion.

Caspar · **09-21-2016, 04:35 PM**

(09-21-2016, 03:03 PM)undefined Wrote: As I said before, I don't mind people claiming whatever as long as they can back it up. I've had people claim to be the best combat fighter and then do some weird sprint 20 yards, bounce off a wall, then sprint 20 yards back kind of wrestling rip-off move and armbar someone in the ground. They were using rolls, so of course the attack connected, but I prefer far more realism in my combat. Flashy fights are how you usually get your ass kicked, and I would expect someone that claims to be the top however percent to know that kind of thing. This may sound a tad cynical, but I don't really have that much faith in people these days.

Thank you for your clarification, though! Some of that may have been going on during my time there, but I honestly don't recall when I quit and how long I was around.

I agree with almost everything you said except for this, as it is a tangent but I think it's unfair to another player to hold stylistic interest and a more cinematic RP style against them ICly. It seems sort of arbitrary when people are hurling fireballs about honestly. You and I might not like the aesthetic of flashy combat, to vastly different degrees mind you, but I won't discredit IC achievment based on my taste as my view of the setting doesn't hold universal recognition.

Warren Castille · **09-21-2016, 04:38 PM**

I think these sorts of things can help but they're fairly situational. WoW's got a lot of wiggle room in that context: There's no specific main character for each expansion and it's widely acknowledged that bands of adventurers are the ones doing the slaying of mostly everyone. I think it's kind of neat for server continuity to have such things.

...that just doesn't lend itself so well to FFXIV. Since we're given a canonical hero who has done everything in the Warrior of Light, it's a lot more tricky to establish these sorts of things. For non-canonical stuff I think it's kind of neat: As someone who PVPed a lot in WoW I took some pride in wearing my gear when it was relevant to RP.

...buuuut that's tricky even in XIV, since PVP is tied directly to adventuring companies established with the Grand Companies. So if you were good at, say, Wolves' Den, it would also mean you're a ranking officer/soldier of some degree in your city-state. As far as the lore is concerned (I think!) the only way into the war games is through the Companies.

McBeefâ„¢ · **09-21-2016, 04:40 PM**

(09-21-2016, 04:38 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: I think these sorts of things can help but they're fairly situational. WoW's got a lot of wiggle room in that context: There's no specific main character for each expansion and it's widely acknowledged that bands of adventurers are the ones doing the slaying of mostly everyone. I think it's kind of neat for server continuity to have such things.

...that just doesn't lend itself so well to FFXIV. Since we're given a canonical hero who has done everything in the Warrior of Light, it's a lot more tricky to establish these sorts of things. For non-canonical stuff I think it's kind of neat: As someone who PVPed a lot in WoW I took some pride in wearing my gear when it was relevant to RP.

...buuuut that's tricky even in XIV, since PVP is tied directly to adventuring companies established with the Grand Companies. So if you were good at, say, Wolves' Den, it would also mean you're a ranking officer/soldier of some degree in your city-state. As far as the lore is concerned (I think!) the only way into the war games is through the Companies.

Duel grindstone when?

Valence · **09-21-2016, 04:41 PM**

I actually like that FF totally separates the story and the rest. They establish that it's the WoL and that prevents me to see everyone claiming to be the ones that fell X or Y story archnemesis. Doing so means that they say outright they are the WoL or similar. Can't say in most cases "no I was just part of a random band of adventurers".

Aaron · **09-21-2016, 04:45 PM**

(09-21-2016, 04:38 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: I think these sorts of things can help but they're fairly situational. WoW's got a lot of wiggle room in that context: There's no specific main character for each expansion and it's widely acknowledged that bands of adventurers are the ones doing the slaying of mostly everyone. I think it's kind of neat for server continuity to have such things.

...that just doesn't lend itself so well to FFXIV. Since we're given a canonical hero who has done everything in the Warrior of Light, it's a lot more tricky to establish these sorts of things. For non-canonical stuff I think it's kind of neat: As someone who PVPed a lot in WoW I took some pride in wearing my gear when it was relevant to RP.

...buuuut that's tricky even in XIV, since PVP is tied directly to adventuring companies established with the Grand Companies. So if you were good at, say, Wolves' Den, it would also mean you're a ranking officer/soldier of some degree in your city-state. As far as the lore is concerned (I think!) the only way into the war games is through the Companies.

The Feast and PvP iirc in general is just adventurers beating the shot out of each other in glory of their GC or just to beat people up.

Gunduin · **09-21-2016, 04:45 PM**

A thought in this is something I did in Warcraft. While my in-game achieves, or at least minor ones, may have SOME impact on my character, they never defined them. IE: My paladin was IN the battle for Icecrown, but was he in teh front group? The people that actually took down Arthas? Nah. He helped hold back the scourge and forge a path, but never saw the throne room. He can tell stories for days about what the interior looked like during the fight, but couldn't give one detail of what that main fight looked like from experience.Â

On the other hand, my rogue has the achievement for taking down Onyxia, but ICly was nowhere near her cave when the group went in to confront her.Â

If someone came up to me and told me they were in that main group against Ony, I'd take it with a grain of salt seeing as I wasn't "there" to see who was or was not in the main battle force.

Warren Castille · **09-21-2016, 04:47 PM**

(09-21-2016, 04:45 PM)Aaron Wrote: The Feast and PvP iirc in general is just adventurers beating the shot out of each other in glory of their GC or just to beat people up.

Wolves' Den and Frontlines are definitely GC-related, but I don't remember what the story for Feast is. They're in your journal as GC quests.

Renault Delumiere · **09-21-2016, 04:48 PM**

(09-21-2016, 04:38 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: ...that just doesn't lend itself so well to FFXIV. Since we're given a canonical hero who has done everything in the Warrior of Light, it's a lot more tricky to establish these sorts of things.Â

...buuuut that's tricky even in XIV, since PVP is tied directly to adventuring companies established with the Grand Companies. So if you were good at, say, Wolves' Den, it would also mean you're a ranking officer/soldier of some degree in your city-state. As far as the lore is concerned (I think!) the only way into the war games is through the Companies.

First, thank you for your reply, as it shed some light on the situation which ultimately led to me seeing and understanding exactly what I was proposing in my OP. It had really skipped my mind that things like: slaying Bahamut Prime, quelling the Illuminati threat within Alexander, and other related content...Is all handled by the WoL canonically.Â

In my opinion, I think there is some leeway in terms of Primals, certain dungeons(which don't house major lore characters) and the like, since those beasts are able to be killed over and over. ( Hell, the story of extreme mode primals is just that. The worshipers simply re summoned the primal. )

Second, the arena PVP game modes are not tied to grand company. You are simply given a team (Fangs or Claws), which alternates each game.

Warren Castille · **09-21-2016, 04:54 PM**

(09-21-2016, 04:48 PM)Renault Delumiere Wrote:
(09-21-2016, 04:38 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: ...that just doesn't lend itself so well to FFXIV. Since we're given a canonical hero who has done everything in the Warrior of Light, it's a lot more tricky to establish these sorts of things.Â

...buuuut that's tricky even in XIV, since PVP is tied directly to adventuring companies established with the Grand Companies. So if you were good at, say, Wolves' Den, it would also mean you're a ranking officer/soldier of some degree in your city-state. As far as the lore is concerned (I think!) the only way into the war games is through the Companies.

First, thank you for your reply, as it shed some light on the situation which ultimately led to me seeing and understanding exactly what I was proposing in my OP. It had really skipped my mind that things like: slaying Bahamut Prime, quelling the Illuminati threat within Alexander, and other related content...Is all handled by the WoL canonically.Â

In my opinion, I think there is some leeway in terms of Primals, certain dungeons(which don't house major lore characters) and the like, since those beasts are able to be killed over and over. ( Hell, the story of extreme mode primals is just that. The worshipers simply re summoned the primal. )

Second, the arena PVP game modes are not tied to grand company. You are simply given a team (Fangs or Claws), which alternates each game.

Soooort of. In the case of Primals that have the power to Temper/Drown/Whatever it is strongly implied you're not walking out of the fight if you're not empowered through some means similar to the Warrior of Light: It doesn't have to be the main character but you have to be otherwise-blessed to not die during the encounter.

PVP is a weird space. We know the Warrior of Light is recruited into it specifically because of his rank with a Grand Company, but is that everyone? Well, maybe? Again, it's implied: You unlock these modes through Grand Company NPCs looking for a few good men to go out and do battle, and the Frontlines lore is a war-game to keep Carteneau occupied so no one goes digging for Omega.

Buuuuut a lot of this is being inferred. The lore book will hopefully shed a lot of light into this, but that's still months out.

Aaron · **09-21-2016, 04:59 PM**

Bah I wish this game had a pokemon styles battle system lol

"People ask me why I wear armor all the time, I tell them it's a wall for my inner frustration"

*Warren Castille has challenged you to battle!*

Zelmanov · **09-21-2016, 05:22 PM**

I am a believer that in game achievements do not result in RP justification because and possibly only because the current storyline as is speaks of one Warrior of light and only one. He is solely responsible for a ton of stuff and so things like "Nidhogg SLayer" cannot work because you are then claiming WOL status.

and unlike warcraft where its a bunch of named characters and you play effectively as the infantry units in a campaign, this is a much more classical "One hero does everything" Story which does not lend itself for equal opportunity and inclusiveness.

The battle to kill the lich king is massive, I can see why people want inclusion.

Its why I will not fault someone for saying they were at the steps of faith, at cartenau (though that's a little hairy) or at the operation which allowed the WOL to enter Castrum Meridanum.

but saying you were the one who punted titan in the nads? Or Ravana? Yeah, no thanks, keep it to your rp group who have agreed to such stipulations

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In-Game Achievement in Relation to a Character

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