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Warren Castille · **10-16-2016, 05:04 PM**

BLM was different because it was always illegal. WHM was different because the game spelled out how rare they were. DRG wasn't ever addressed in any limiting capacity, we just argued over player observations. Slightly different circumstances.

Verad · **10-16-2016, 05:05 PM**

Most likely possibility is that players on the RPC underestimated the in game power of dragoons compared to Black/White Mages, to use your example.

***Nero*** · **10-16-2016, 05:06 PM**

I'm genuinely curious and confused as to what the goal is in limiting the number of Dragoons. What exactly are they trying to convey with this factoid?

Should we be finding the Dragoon characters more badass because the standards are so strict and the fighting is so dangerous? Should our WoL be seen as even more amazing because they're a second Azure Dragoon? Should we think dragons are more intimidating because they can kill Dragoons so easily? Hell, should we think that for all of their training and might, lore-Dragoons are incompetent because they seem to die so often despite the high standards and elite training and specialised equipment? Who knows, maybe they're trying to kill Job RP.

It's just a little confusing to me as to why you'd stick your guns to an exact figure. It takes way less mental gymnastics to keep the figures plausibly vague, especially when every other relevant figure in making this "thirty dragoons at a time, ten dragoons presently" figure believable (example: Ishgard's total population, the size of Ishgard's military, the number of soul crystals, the number of Drachen Mail, etc.) is conspicuously absent.

EDIT: Also, unless I missed quest text somewhere, we still have no idea how dragoons jump. Basically, WoL gets chosen by Eye of Nidhogg, and now he can jump into the air. Is it exclusive to dragon power or something?

Valence · **10-16-2016, 05:07 PM**

You find jumping 100 meters high into the sky with a full armour suit and lance and all somehow less impressive than casting balls of fire? I mean, the only difference between a BLM and a THM is the scale of destruction...

Caspar · **10-16-2016, 05:08 PM**

(10-16-2016, 05:04 PM)Goren Ghastille Wrote: BLM was different because it was always illegal. WHM was different because the game spelled out how rare they were. DRG wasn't ever addressed in any limiting capacity, we just argued over player observations. Slightly different circumstances.

The limiting capacity was probably "what are the Dragoons doing outside of Ishgard?" up until the end of the Expac's patch cycle, if anything. But I still think that the lack of stigma has a lot to do with the thematics of the class and the focus of the expac, even if they're a minor case in comparison to those other Jobs.

But yeah, it definitely is a strange choice given that it makes the size of Ishgard's army and the proportion composed by Dragoons questionable. If the Dragoons are a tiny portion of the army, why not instead change training methods so that a large number of less elite (but still effective) Dragoons can be churned out? If the Ishgardian army is small, why not try for full mobilization? They were constantly afraid of being exterminated by the Dravanians. It doesn't make sense that an army would be that tiny.

Trigonxv · **10-16-2016, 05:11 PM**

In light of this Monk players should take caution as well, It may not be as severe as what just happened to dragoons but there may be a significant wrench in the unknown that when revealed could stranglehold Monk RP so play it out moderately I guess.

Caspar · **10-16-2016, 05:12 PM**

(10-16-2016, 05:11 PM)Trigonxv Wrote: In light of this Monk players should take caution as well, It may not be as severe as what just happened to dragoons but there may be a significant wrench in the unknown that when revealed could stranglehold Monk RP so play it out moderately I guess.

Haha, thus why I avoided making my character Ala Mhigan in origin, as well as technically not Doman either.
She might be similar to a Monk, but I can easily dodge that bullet when it comes.

Warren Castille · **10-16-2016, 05:14 PM**

(10-16-2016, 05:05 PM)Verad Wrote: Most likely possibility is that players on the RPC underestimated the in game power of dragoons compared to Black/White Mages, to use your example.

This is entirely possible. I guess Dragoon jumps really are howitzer shots on soft targets.

***Teadrinker*** · **10-16-2016, 05:14 PM**

(10-16-2016, 05:06 PM)Nero Wrote: It's just a little confusing to me as to why you'd stick your guns to an exact figure.

It's also strange as hell because there is literally ZERO precedence for this level of specificity in SE's lorewriting.

They normally opt for the "We're going to be so vague we don't have to explain anything!" angle.

Now, all of a sudden:

THIRTY DRAGOONS.

[Image: my-brain-is-full-of-fuck.jpg]

Valence · **10-16-2016, 05:22 PM**

(10-16-2016, 05:11 PM)Trigonxv Wrote: In light of this Monk players should take caution as well, It may not be as severe as what just happened to dragoons but there may be a significant wrench in the unknown that when revealed could stranglehold Monk RP so play it out moderately I guess.

Isn't Widargelt supposed to be one of the few rare or only survivor of the Light sect?

Not sure for the Dark sect though...

(10-16-2016, 05:08 PM)Caspar Wrote: But yeah, it definitely is a strange choice given that it makes the size of Ishgard's army and the proportion composed by Dragoons questionable. If the Dragoons are a tiny portion of the army, why not instead change training methods so that a large number of less elite (but still effective) Dragoons can be churned out? If the Ishgardian army is small, why not try for full mobilization? They were constantly afraid of being exterminated by the Dravanians. It doesn't make sense that an army would be that tiny.

Because if their job implies such a high amount of casualty, if you start churning out lower level dragoons that can maybe not even jump correctly or whatever, then you just send them all to the slaughter.

Leih · **10-16-2016, 05:24 PM**

Sincerely, personally this changes little about my character since I have to agree with the idea that if there were only JUST 30 soulstone, whoever retired would have to give them back to the Holy See. Otherwise, well... They would run out of Dragoons really fast. I mean, between those who keep their stones, those that possibly got eaten, and there's always someone that gives the finger to the Holy See (Estinien, I'm looking at you), it makes zero sense to have such limited amount for 1000 years.Â

It does say 30 active at time, which means people could retire and new dragoons would take their place. It was a war, no time to leave a vacant seat for more than an hour or two. Otherwise, let's be sincere, Ishgard would be doomed to defeat in the first years of the war.Â

At least that's my personal opinion on the matter and how I will look to it.

Ciel · **10-16-2016, 05:52 PM**

I haven't ready every single response to this thread, but just my 2 gil:

If you've done the Dragoon job quests, you still get called the Azure Dragoon.Â Your character is still referred to as a Dragoon without them ever being entered into an official ORDER.

While not everyone can be an Azure Dragoon, I'd say this is still fair to say that, yes, your character CAN still be a Dragoon without being a part of Ishgard's Order.Â It's about context.Â If you have a good story and you can explain your training, you're probably fine.

And as others have pointed out, there can't be 30 Dragoons in the whole of Ishgard.Â Maybe there's a reserve.Â Otherwise Ishgard would have lost the war a very long time ago, training to turn someone into a top shelf Dragoon can't happen overnight.

McBeefâ„¢ · **10-16-2016, 05:53 PM**

I mean, there are 6 people on the syndicate. You can't really say you're on the syndicate because we know who all those people are.

There are 30 dragoons. We know who the alive ones are but... why does that matter? Like, tomorrow there might be 11 on active duty because yours was on sick leave when they took the roll call lol.

Like, it's not set in stone. You can still be a Dragoon.

Â "I was recovering when they took that number."

"I was training and now I'm one of the 30."

"I got my soulstone from a retired Dragoon who taught me the art"

"I'm a temple knight trained as a Dragoon but not one of the official 30."

It's not hard to work around lol.

McBeefâ„¢ · **10-16-2016, 06:04 PM**

"I was one of the thirty, but I gave up my post to go adventuring after the war."

Keep RPing dragoons, it's fine. No one is keeping a giant list of how many people claimed they are dragoons.Â

It's like "Paladin"Â

Paladin is a fighting style, but it's also a military order in the Sultansworn. You can be one and not the other. There are only 30 like registered in that unit. Doesn't mean there are only 30 soulstones or 30 trained dragoons.Â

There might more trained dragoons kept by house military's Â for example.

ImmoralAria · **10-16-2016, 06:12 PM**

Actually, it's nothing like Paladins - because we already know of an order of paladins outside of the Sultansworn - The Free Paladins, which were created to create the art alive.

But yeah, on the subject of soulstones, I do not believe they are limited to 30. But claiming to be an officially ordained Dragoon was always a very risky endeavor. Mostly due to the Dragoons being a proper noun organization. And also that I believe all of the Dragoons we meet are either Hyur or Elezen, which makes sense in a stratified society where being one of the Dragoons is a prestigious assignment.

I suspect there will be more of "I am /a dragoon/" as opposed to "I am a member of /The Dragoons/."

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[Discussion] Welp Dragoons, it was a good run, but we are all now either retired or dead

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes