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Riggy · **02-02-2017, 10:22 AM**

I've searched the past few pages of topics and not really found anything on the subject, but it seems like it's something I should figure out now before developing a character and then needing to rework a large part of their backstory.

That said, I'm not so much looking to have it for meta-gaming and knowing someone's backstory, but more just to avoid Tempering and workaround the possible language barriers we never really see in game (because of the Echo).

Gegenji · **02-02-2017, 10:37 AM**

Honestly? I think it's fine. I've seen quite a few RPers who apparently have the Echo in some facet, and there was a whole organization in 1.0 that revolved around finding and gathering up those with the talent. Even in the modern version of FFXIV, we see a couple folks besides the WoL who possess the Echo: Minfilia, Krile, and I think that Sahagin chieftain or whatever also had some aspect of it?

So, while it might be rare, it's not exactly "WoL-only" like some of the other things that people could claim - like being the Azure Dragoon or a non-Padjali White Mage. Plus, I believe it was mentioned somewhere that there are various different "versions" of the Echo that someone can possess. Like, the WoL's allows them to understand all languages and have those brief "visions" of peoples' pasts - but I don't think Minfilia had either of those and I think Krile's just allowed for language comprehension?

So, if you want to basically have a "Krile-style" Echo, which is what sounds like you're going for, you should be perfectly fine.

Nebbs · **02-02-2017, 11:38 AM**

Play what you want.

However, for a more widely acceptable character avoid special powers and especially ones that encroach on another's RP sphere of control (such as their character), it will work out better in the end.

So for the echo, I would avoid it and anything to do with the Warrior of Light. If you must have it then make it something internal rather than outwardly apparent.

Oh, I suppose you should ask yourself would our character concept still work without the echo. If the answer is no, then you are probably playing the echo not the character.

Moonlit · **02-02-2017, 12:10 PM**

Lorewise there's no real reason you couldn't have the echo. Roleplay wise, you need to have permission to know a character's history in order to see clips of it, anyway? So it's not really difficult to play. Some people even include special parts in their wiki for those with the echo to see.

Gegenji · **02-02-2017, 12:14 PM**

(02-02-2017, 12:10 PM)Moonlit Wrote: Lorewise there's no real reason you couldn't have the echo. Roleplay wise, you need to have permission to know a characters history in order to see clips of it, anyway? So it's not really difficult to play. Some people even include special parts in their wiki for those with the echo to see.

That's just it, though. That bit of Echo ability seems to be unique to the WoL - Minfilia and Krile don't have it, and yet they still possess "the Echo." And if I'm remembering the Sahagin-Having-the-Echo thing... then it had an ability that even the WoL didn't have - the ability to jump from body to body. It just seems that there are various aspects to the Echo that a person may or may not have. The given one is the immunity to tempering, I think, but the others are not guaranteed.

That said, there's nothing keeping something being revealed down the line that makes it far more special or harder to have. Like, I dunno, that the Echo is actually the manifestation of having an Ascian in your bloodline or something, and thus it's just what Ascian powers you get. And the WoL just happens to have the most concentrated Echo-blood so they have access to everything. But that's a lot of maybe and for-fun conjecture.

As it stands, it seems to be a rare trait, but not a unique one.

Moonlit · **02-02-2017, 12:23 PM**

"The Power To Transcend Time." I'm not sure if these will be able to be read, if they're not, I can upload them somewhere more public but yeah. Take that as you will!

*Edit: Give me a moment
Fixed

Kallera · **02-02-2017, 12:32 PM**

I've also wondered this myself, and I just recently saw a character expereince this, and while I don't mention it often, I've thought of Kallera as one of the ones taken in Louisioux ritual to send folks to the future. I've kinda wondered if having the echo would make Kallera OP, yet at the same time, would not having it be fatal against a large array of opponents in the setting? (for example,if one of the big bads someone came up with is ascian, or if Kallera had to fight someone with the echo.)

Sounsyy · **02-02-2017, 12:34 PM**

(02-02-2017, 10:22 AM)Riggy Wrote: I've searched the past few pages of topics and not really found anything on the subject, but it seems like it's something I should figure out now before developing a character and then needing to rework a large part of their backstory.

Having the Echo is completely okay and something that is far more common than even the warriors of light. For some lore on the Echo (I haven't added the lorebook stuff yet) I'd recommend this link:

-Echo Lore Compilation

Moonlit · **02-02-2017, 12:35 PM**

(02-02-2017, 12:32 PM)Kallera Wrote: I've also wondered this myself, and I just recently saw a character expereince this, and while I don't mention it often, I've thought of Kallera as one of the ones taken in Louisioux ritual to send folks to the future. Â I've kinda wondered if having the echo would make Kallera OP, yet at the same time, would not having it be fatal against a large array of opponents in the setting? (for example,if one of the big bads someone came up with is ascian)

I think, "OP," has always -- and will always -- be a personal level of preference. Some people think the Black is too OP to play. Others disagree. At the end of the day it all comes down to how you play it and if you strive to play it fairly. That being said, I wouldn't say a "large array," of opponents. I think playing or using an Ascian in RP is up for an entirely different debate but the Echo is only really beneficial as a preventative measure in specific cases (like Primals).Â

Gegenji · **02-02-2017, 12:35 PM**

Lorebook stuff! And a weigh-in by Sounsyy! That helps. Big Grin

So I was right in remembering that there were different "aspects" of the Echo one could have, either in part or in whole. And that the Sahagain technically had it too, though it being "gifted" by the Ascians is something that slipped my mind.

Going with the three in the Lorebook, Krile can Transcend Words, Minfilia can Transcend Worlds (though I wonder if she had anything else before that and this bit was mostly due to the Mothercrystal claiming her as a voice), and the WoL can do all three because WoL. So... which one of those did the Sahagin Priest have? Unless Trascending Worlds included the realms of the living and the dead and basically having that Ascian-immortality going. Or there's other aspects of it that are being withheld and thus weren't mentioned in the lorebook.

However, I wonder if having the Echo and being a being of hero of history/"chosen" and all that is a square and rectangle situation. You know, "all squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares." To wit, these heroes of time had the Echo, but having the Echo doesn't leave you fated to do great things. Though the whole being "touched by Hydaelyn" part makes it seem unlikely, though that could also be a bit of an exaggeration and many could be "touched" in such a manner who don't really answer the call. Unless the Ascians were also "touched," either by Hydaelyn herself or their counterpart (Zodiark?). Hm.

Well, if it does end up being a "for special people only" thing... at least there's been IC workarounds to tempering. I know a couple FCs that have gone after primals using a special device that helps block that sort of thing. Though, one has to wonder how important that is, unless the original poster's history requires the character to have survived a tempering rather than avoiding it through other means.

Bypassing language is a different issue... but sometimes linguistics itself can be fun. I mean, I have an alt I haven't really used who is basically a linguistics specialist and can speak several other languages because that's his skill set rather than having the Echo.

EDIT: A bunch of minor edits based off posts that happened while I was writing this! And some minor spelling fixes noticed after-the-fact. ... I still think it should be fine to play as having at least a minor Echo aspect regardless, though!

Leggerless · **02-02-2017, 12:49 PM**

Show Content

tl;dr: Yes, it's fine. Yes, you may get excluded from some groups and others will be fine with it.

PhantasticPanda · **02-02-2017, 12:53 PM**

The Echo is rather "common". To my knowledge and interpretation, almost all Scions of the Seventh Dawn (including all those no-name NPC you see in the Waking Sands) has the Echo, because it is what gives them protection from being tempered by Primals, their primary threat they're usually sent to deal with. I wouldn't be surprised if the Company of Heroes were Echo-users as well considering they faced primals without being tempered.. The WoL is... Well, the Warrior of Light. So it all comes down to how you play it and play it fairly.

So to summarize a little bit of what I said, I believe the Echo is pretty common, but not all are willing or capable to be "great heroes"

LystAP · **02-02-2017, 12:57 PM**

I am of the opinion all PCs have the Echo in some form. How else do we explain people turning up to certain events undelayed, such as scheduled RP? How else could we explain people learning languages in a month or so? How aren't most players dead from random disease or other senseless maladies afflicting Eorzea?

Thematically, it's just something that can exist or not, wholly dependent on the people you RP with. It's not like the Echo is a power that suddenly makes you Superman.

S'imba · **02-02-2017, 01:00 PM**

Honestly I think having the echo is a whole lot more lore friendly than a lot of other explanations for having certain abilities. It's a thing we know manifests in different way and there's more people that have it than just one person. There's nothing really that special about having the power to sees visions or understand languages. Not too much different than being a dark knight or a black mage. People just shy away from it cause it's a big part of the msq and a lot of people are so worried about being associated with it in anyway that they'll go as far as to pretend none of the msq exists. It's certainly a decent way to get a little more background on events. I've seen people who use echo users just cause they want certain aspects of their characters past to be seen but have no other way to draw those aspects out of them. Especially when they write big detailed backgrounds but then never get a chance to share those elements for one reason or another.Â

Just don't let it dominate your character and I think you're fine.

Sounsyy · **02-02-2017, 01:13 PM**

(02-02-2017, 12:53 PM)PhantasticPanda Wrote: The Echo is rather "common". To my knowledge and interpretation, almost all Scions of the Seventh Dawn (including all those no-name NPC you see in the Waking Sands) has the Echo, because it is what gives them protection from being tempered by Primals, their primary threat they're usually sent to deal with. I wouldn't be surprised if the Company of Heroes were Echo-users as well considering they faced primals without being tempered.

This bit is actually incorrect. The majority of the living Scions of the Seventh Dawn do not actually possess the Echo. Only the minor npcs who were present in the Waking Sands prior to the imperial purge in the early ARR story quest, such as Una Tayuun. These members were part of Minfilia's Path of the Twelve in 1.0, who were all Echo Walkers. When the Path merged with the Circle of Knowing (the Sharlayans under Louisoix like Yda and Y'shtola) to form yhe Scions, they began recruiting non-Echo adventurers. The Sharlayan members of the Circle of Knowing do not have the Echo with the exception of Krile.

Also it's been noted that Limsa's Company of Heroes were not Echo users and defeated the primals by throwing large numbers at their foes with only a few surviving each fight to tell the tale.

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Is having the Echo okay?

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