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***Nero*** · **05-26-2017, 10:42 AM**

(05-24-2017, 12:15 PM)Rinh Panipahr Wrote: What sort of names would Hyur Ishgardians have? Would they have Elezen-ish fake French names, actual French names, or just typical Midlander names?

Lorewise, they'd be typical Midlander names. If you want to get into etymology, they'd mostly be Old English or otherwise Anglo-Saxon names. Here is a relevant list of Old English names.

If you want to get a bit fancy with it (like having a Hyur from a very old Ishgardian bloodline), I think you could get away with using medieval French names. They're quite a bit more elaborate than Old English names but the roots are from roughly similar roots. Relevant list. Try googling "Frankish names" and see if anything pops up that you like.

Arashin Kujqai · **06-03-2017, 02:01 AM**

Has there ever been any particular reason why conjurer/whitemage/thaumaturge/blackmage weapons glow their respective colors when they do? Like why the thaumaturge/blm has their staves glow a bright purple for their spells and conjry/whm a bright white, a specific lore reason? Or can we just assume/speculate it's just their traditional discipline or the specific aspecting of the aether(i.e. it glows purple cuz you're casting something firey/thunder/icey, it's white cuz you're using water/wind etc)?

Asked this in another thread but I think it's ignored because it's a specific topic. Sorry if that's wrong/bad or something :S

Valence · **06-04-2017, 05:21 AM**

I fear that you are trying to know something akin to why a bard's empyreal arrow isblue-purple-ish rather than red or why a monk's elixir field is blue and not green or red or pink or whatever...

And I really doubt anyone even among the developers have had a truly thought out answer directly anchored into the lore either. The most probable answer is that of a standard colour association as white with pure, natural, healing magic, and purple as malevolent and/or destructive gloomy magic.

In terms of artistic believability, you could perfectly swap both and have conjury glow purple or even red, and thaumaturgy glow white, but especially in the case of the former, that would probably look very weird to most people, just due to those standard associations. Much like you associate red with danger and green with validation or safety.

Now then, one thing is sure, if the colour is tied to the element being cast, then since both conjury and thaumaturgy aren't limited to a few elements and actually have acces to the full aetherial elemental wheel, then it would probably mean that a conjurer's cane would glow purple when casting fire/ice/thunder and a thaumaturge's rod would glow white when casting earth, water or wind.

I somehow doubt that it's the case, and if there is any reason at all to begin with, I think that the colour is probably more tied to the style of magic and the tools they use to access it, which are diametrically opposed. So, white for a conjurer praying and pleading to elementals to allow them to access nature's bounty, no matter if they try casting Fire/Thunder/Ice ; and purple for a thaumaturge focusing and forcefully channeling their inner aetherial reserves through their weapon, no matter if they try casting Stone/Water/Wind.

Arashin Kujqai · **06-04-2017, 08:03 PM**

(06-04-2017, 05:21 AM)Valence Wrote: I fear that you are trying to know something akin to why a bard's empyreal arrow isblue-purple-ish rather than red or why a monk's elixir field is blue and not green or red or pink or whatever...

And I really doubt anyone even among the developers have had a truly thought out answer directly anchored into the lore either. The most probable answer is that of a standard colour association as white with pure, natural, healing magic, and purple as malevolent and/or destructive gloomy magic.

In terms of artistic believability, you could perfectly swap both and have conjury glow purple or even red, and thaumaturgy glow white, but especially in the case of the former, that would probably look very weird to most people, just due to those standard associations. Much like you associate red with danger and green with validation or safety.

Now then, one thing is sure, if the colour is tied to the element being cast, then since both conjury and thaumaturgy aren't limited to a few elements and actually have acces to the full aetherial elemental wheel, then it would probably mean that a conjurer's cane would glow purple when casting fire/ice/thunder and a thaumaturge's rod would glow white when casting earth, water or wind.

I somehow doubt that it's the case, and if there is any reason at all to begin with, I think that the colour is probably more tied to the style of magic and the tools they use to access it, which are diametrically opposed. So, white for a conjurer praying and pleading to elementals to allow them to access nature's bounty, no matter if they try casting Fire/Thunder/Ice ; and purple for a thaumaturge focusing and forcefully channeling their inner aetherial reserves through their weapon, no matter if they try casting Stone/Water/Wind.

For some reason I didn't get a notification when this got responded to, but ty! I mostly asked because of the RDM theory me and some friends made into a google doc (which no one's still responded to yet q.q) because we notice the red mage uses both of those glows for their weapon. Specifically, casting white mana generating skills (veraero/verstone/verholy) makes the conjury/white mage glow while black mana generating skills (verfire/verthunder/verflare) glows the intense purple. So we were wondering what kind of ties that might lead, whether it was how they are bringing about the aether to their weapon to channel or if it's just the element itself.

I suppose a red mage wouldn't be limited to prayer/elemental pleading and channeling their own aether reserves alone... Unless there's some law/religion/reason being that a person couldn't do both for some reason?

Virella · **06-04-2017, 08:32 PM**

Honestly, my best guess is because the devs wanted to reflect the colour of their soulstone into their weapons.

Rookie Judge · **06-04-2017, 10:03 PM**

Wasn't sure where to ask this and I couldn't articulate myself well enough to justify a thread for it but would there not be resentment against Ala Mhigans for the events at Baelsar's Wall?

Virella · **06-04-2017, 10:05 PM**

(06-04-2017, 10:03 PM)Rookie Judge Wrote: Wasn't sure where to ask this and I couldn't articulate myself well enough to justify a thread for it but would there not be resentment against Ala Mhigans for the events at Baelsar's Wall?

You could check if the NPC in Ul'dah have been updated on their gossip chatbubbles. But I don't think we have any concrete lore on that (yet). It wouldn't surprise me though.

Sounsyy · **06-04-2017, 11:55 PM**

(06-04-2017, 10:03 PM)Rookie Judge Wrote: Wasn't sure where to ask this and I couldn't articulate myself well enough to justify a thread for it but would there not be resentment against Ala Mhigans for the events at Baelsar's Wall?

This depends entirely upon whether knowledge of what exactly happened at Baelsar's Wall is common knowledge. The Masks (the Resistance cell under the Griffin) wore stolen Grand Company uniforms that were convincing enough to fool the Twin Adder scouts in the region who reported to Commander Vorsaile Heuloix via linkpearl. The only people present on that watchtower overlooking Baelsar's Wall at the time Alphinaud expounded upon the Griffin's plot were Serpent Commander Vorsaile Heuloix, Storm Commander R'ashaht Rhiki, Flame Marshal Pipin Tarupin, Hilda, and two unnamed Gods' Quivermen.

Vorsaile Heuloix Wrote:Report! What? Seven hells... Fighting has broken out on top of the Wall! A full-scale assault! The attackers, theyâ”€ They're wearing Grand Company colors. If those uniforms were convincing enough to deceive my scouts, the Empire will surely think we've launched an offensive. This could mean war!

I can almost guarantee that three of those six did not go blabbing to the general populace that Ala Mhigans slipped completely unnoticed under the largest gathering of Eorzean Alliance forces since Operation Archon.

What about the events that took place within? Well, the only Eorzeans who made it out of the Wall alive to tell the tale were the WoL, Alphinaud, Yda, Thancred, and Yugiri.

Alphinaud Wrote:Sounsyy, we must make for the Wall at once.

Pipin Wrote:What, just the two of you!?

Which brings us to the giant blue moon above the Shroud. Obviously, people saw that. There's no escaping it. The fear that might have spread. Especially when a bloody great dragon burst forth from it again. There was a light show, there were storms, there was an epic battle in the skies. People saw that. But...

Kan-E-Senna Wrote:While most among us could think only of Bahamut when looking upon the primal's form, the Domans were heard to whisper the name â€œShinryu.â€ It would appear that the being resembles a creature of Far Eastern legend, and we have found it convenient to refer to it as such.

There's nothing that screams, "the Ala Mhigans did it!" It was an Eastern-appearing deity, for reasons yet unknown. But we've widened our knowledge of the events to those at that watchtower and those within the Lotus Stand: the GC leaders, the Scions, Kan-E's personal guard. But that pool will likely get bigger in the early quests of Stormblood. Because Raubahn is leading the Immortal Flames, and according to the Stormblood revolutions trailer the other Grand Companies as well, to Baelsar's Wall to defend against Garlemald's inevitable reprisal.

Raubahn Wrote:Aye. Which is why we have sent our main force, under the command of Marshal Tarupin, to capture the Wall. With the imperials in disarray, we have the perfect opportunity to secure Gridania's border, and assess the aftermath of the impact.

If any evidence survived of the Resistance's sacrifice there, then the newly-occupying Grand Company soldiers are like to find it. But it's possible after the aether expended to summon Shinryu and the flames, floodwaters, and destruction caused by Omega's battle, there might not be anything of the Masks left to find.

So will there be resentment? If the general populace ever finds out what happened at Baelsar's Wall, there's a very very good chance there will be. But is there any right now? Probably not any more than usual, which is already a substantial amount.

This is another one of those we'll have to wait for Stormblood to find out!

Valence · **06-05-2017, 05:03 AM**

(06-04-2017, 08:03 PM)Valic Wrote:
(06-04-2017, 05:21 AM)Valence Wrote: I fear that you are trying to know something akin to why a bard's empyreal arrow isblue-purple-ish rather than red or why a monk's elixir field is blue and not green or red or pink or whatever...

And I really doubt anyone even among the developers have had a truly thought out answer directly anchored into the lore either. The most probable answer is that of a standard colour association as white with pure, natural, healing magic, and purple as malevolent and/or destructive gloomy magic.

In terms of artistic believability, you could perfectly swap both and have conjury glow purple or even red, and thaumaturgy glow white, but especially in the case of the former, that would probably look very weird to most people, just due to those standard associations. Much like you associate red with danger and green with validation or safety.

Now then, one thing is sure, if the colour is tied to the element being cast, then since both conjury and thaumaturgy aren't limited to a few elements and actually have acces to the full aetherial elemental wheel, then it would probably mean that a conjurer's cane would glow purple when casting fire/ice/thunder and a thaumaturge's rod would glow white when casting earth, water or wind.

I somehow doubt that it's the case, and if there is any reason at all to begin with, I think that the colour is probably more tied to the style of magic and the tools they use to access it, which are diametrically opposed. So, white for a conjurer praying and pleading to elementals to allow them to access nature's bounty, no matter if they try casting Fire/Thunder/Ice ; and purple for a thaumaturge focusing and forcefully channeling their inner aetherial reserves through their weapon, no matter if they try casting Stone/Water/Wind.
For some reason I didn't get a notification when this got responded to, but ty! I mostly asked because of the RDM theory me and some friends made into a google doc (which no one's still responded to yet q.q) because we notice the red mage uses both of those glows for their weapon. Specifically, casting white mana generating skills (veraero/verstone/verholy) makes the conjury/white mage glow while black mana generating skills (verfire/verthunder/verflare) glows the intense purple. So we were wondering what kind of ties that might lead, whether it was how they are bringing about the aether to their weapon to channel or if it's just the element itself.

I suppose a red mage wouldn't be limited to prayer/elemental pleading and channeling their own aether reserves alone... Unless there's some law/religion/reason being that a person couldn't do both for some reason?

That's interesting.

Although I didn't even consider treating the problem under the aspect of White and Black magics, that are slightly different from their conjury and thaumaturgy counterparts. While Succor/White magic involves a sheer amount of prayers to nature and all the jazz associated with conjury these days due to the padjali legacy and the simple fact that Elementals don't take no shit anymore about slippery uses of that, it is not so certain for Amdapori Succor of old, because prayer and meditation isn't required for Succor to function, unlike conjury: the latter must borrow from the land, thus the meditation, while the former uses a magic that just takes from the planet, much like Black Magic (and both require a soulstone to work properly).

Personally, those colour schemes don't mesh well with my understanding of the lore. We could take them as you say and the game seems to show, as an indication that it's either Stone/Water/Wind (white) or Fire/Thunder/Ice (black) that are being cast, but in terms of elemental mechanics and put in application through the wheel, there is no clear pattern and it makes little sense. Both have astral and umbral elements. Both elements are not diametrically opposed too.

I'm suspecting that if you really require a possible explanation of those colours, then I would guess that everything that requires the use of Black Magic lies on the same principles than thaumaturgy (except the uses doesn't siphon their own aether, they siphon the planet's), thus the purple. And I guess... for some reason, elementals in Gyr Abania don't really mind those red mages to use both black and white magic, so that white magic that lies on a certain elemental allowance (it's their magic after all, produces a white glow...

If Red Magic is really what it claims to be, which is a mixture of Amdapori Succor and Mhachi Black Magic, then its practitioners by definition don't use their personal aether reserves. They should use Hydaelyn's aether. Which also means a certain combination of gems of Shattoto and a White Mage soulstone.

But... Hard to tell, and i'm rather curious to see how the lore in 4.0 will explain that.

Arashin Kujqai · **06-05-2017, 05:41 AM**

(06-05-2017, 05:03 AM)Valence Wrote:
(06-04-2017, 08:03 PM)Valic Wrote:
(06-04-2017, 05:21 AM)Valence Wrote: I fear that you are trying to know something akin to why a bard's empyreal arrow isblue-purple-ish rather than red or why a monk's elixir field is blue and not green or red or pink or whatever...

And I really doubt anyone even among the developers have had a truly thought out answer directly anchored into the lore either. The most probable answer is that of a standard colour association as white with pure, natural, healing magic, and purple as malevolent and/or destructive gloomy magic.

In terms of artistic believability, you could perfectly swap both and have conjury glow purple or even red, and thaumaturgy glow white, but especially in the case of the former, that would probably look very weird to most people, just due to those standard associations. Much like you associate red with danger and green with validation or safety.

Now then, one thing is sure, if the colour is tied to the element being cast, then since both conjury and thaumaturgy aren't limited to a few elements and actually have acces to the full aetherial elemental wheel, then it would probably mean that a conjurer's cane would glow purple when casting fire/ice/thunder and a thaumaturge's rod would glow white when casting earth, water or wind.

I somehow doubt that it's the case, and if there is any reason at all to begin with, I think that the colour is probably more tied to the style of magic and the tools they use to access it, which are diametrically opposed. So, white for a conjurer praying and pleading to elementals to allow them to access nature's bounty, no matter if they try casting Fire/Thunder/Ice ; and purple for a thaumaturge focusing and forcefully channeling their inner aetherial reserves through their weapon, no matter if they try casting Stone/Water/Wind.
For some reason I didn't get a notification when this got responded to, but ty! I mostly asked because of the RDM theory me and some friends made into a google doc (which no one's still responded to yet q.q) because we notice the red mage uses both of those glows for their weapon. Specifically, casting white mana generating skills (veraero/verstone/verholy) makes the conjury/white mage glow while black mana generating skills (verfire/verthunder/verflare) glows the intense purple. So we were wondering what kind of ties that might lead, whether it was how they are bringing about the aether to their weapon to channel or if it's just the element itself.

I suppose a red mage wouldn't be limited to prayer/elemental pleading and channeling their own aether reserves alone... Unless there's some law/religion/reason being that a person couldn't do both for some reason?

That's interesting.

Although I didn't even consider treating the problem under the aspect of White and Black magics, that are slightly different from their conjury and thaumaturgy counterparts. While Succor/White magic involves a sheer amount of prayers to nature and all the jazz associated with conjury these days due to the padjali legacy and the simple fact that Elementals don't take no shit anymore about slippery uses of that, it is not so certain for Amdapori Succor of old, because prayer and meditation isn't required for Succor to function, unlike conjury: the latter must borrow from the land, thus the meditation, while the former uses a magic that just takes from the planet, much like Black Magic (and both require a soulstone to work properly).

Personally, those colour schemes don't mesh well with my understanding of the lore. We could take them as you say and the game seems to show, as an indication that it's either Stone/Water/Wind (white) or Fire/Thunder/Ice (black) that are being cast, but in terms of elemental mechanics and put in application through the wheel, there is no clear pattern and it makes little sense. Both have astral and umbral elements. Both elements are not diametrically opposed too.

I'm suspecting that if you really require a possible explanation of those colours, then I would guess that everything that requires the use of Black Magic lies on the same principles than thaumaturgy (except the uses doesn't siphon their own aether, they siphon the planet's), thus the purple. And I guess... for some reason, elementals in Gyr Abania don't really mind those red mages to use both black and white magic, so that white magic that lies on a certain elemental allowance (it's their magic after all, produces a white glow...

If Red Magic is really what it claims to be, which is a mixture of Amdapori Succor and Mhachi Black Magic, then its practitioners by definition don't use their personal aether reserves. They should use Hydaelyn's aether. Which also means a certain combination of gems of Shattoto and a White Mage soulstone.

But... Hard to tell, and i'm rather curious to see how the lore in 4.0 will explain that.

Exactly. Though from their lore they say they gave up those "vestiges of white and black" for this new discipline. So it makes me think they dropped the entirety of draining Hydaelyn altogether in favor of using their own reserves which I believe original conjury/thaumaturgy did before all this black magic white magic bs happened. In which case, if they did actually give up those practices, it's either a new one altogether or it's the element idea like I think it might be. I guess this means they haven't actually explained the individual glows on weapons then huh? Rdm will surely be an oddball here lol.

Virella · **06-05-2017, 07:21 AM**

(06-04-2017, 11:55 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: <snip>

I'm actually wondering if the Resistance fighter who came to warn the Scions might have told the remaining Resistance. There's nothing on that either I assume? Sad

Sounsyy · **06-05-2017, 08:02 AM**

(06-05-2017, 07:21 AM)Virella Wrote: I'm actually wondering if the Resistance fighter who came to warn the Scions might have told the remaining Resistance. There's nothing on that either I assume?

I don't remember seeing her up and at it in the Rising Stones after the 3.56 story? She might still be recovering until Stormblood. That said, she might have used a linkpearl- though usually the Resistance considers them risky and prefer encoded letters.

Alternatively, Gallien the False Griffin, is supposedly still alive. So maybe not all the Masks are dead. The Griffin is notoriously secretive about his missions and operations, but at the same time a large portion of Eorzea's resistance was just slaughtered. Other Ala Mhigans who live in Little Ala Mhigo or who're involved with the resistance would likely take notice, even if they're not privy to the specifics.

But this again goes back to... would they tell the general populace? Some might! They might take pride in finally forcing the Alliance's hand. Others might keep their involvement close to the vest, fearing they might lose what small support the Griffin was able to garner.

Judielle Farendaire · **06-07-2017, 09:12 PM**

I'm not sure if this has been answered or not, but outside of the Scions how many Eorzeans acknowledge the existence of Hydaelyn, and how does knowledge of Her existence relate to belief in the Twelve?

**Unnamed Mercenary** · **06-07-2017, 10:56 PM**

(06-07-2017, 09:12 PM)Aronaux Farendaire Wrote: I'm not sure if this has been answered or not, but outside of the Scions how many Eorzeans acknowledge the existence of Hydaelyn, and how does knowledge of Her existence relate to belief in the Twelve?

I think it might be answered on this thread. (If not, lots of stuff on Eorzean religion.)
Eorzean Religion and Religious Texts

Crystal Chronicler · **06-09-2017, 04:24 PM**

This may have been asked before, but I'm struggling to find a solid answer. Does anyone know if the Derplander (that dude in all the CG trailers) is SE's canon WoL? I've seen some people claim that he is the Default WoL and that his name is actually Meteor. Any credence to this?

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