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Gegenji · **08-10-2017, 10:09 AM**

Really, given how the situation played out... it doesn't seem all that surprising that M'rahz is taking M'zhet under his wing. Not as a Nunh, but as the leader of the tribe. He's thinking to the future of it, and he sees Zhet's tenacity and resolve as potentially good traits to have. However, Zhet also needs the strength to claim the title of Nunh and then hold onto it.

What's interesting to muse on, however... that even if Zhet does ultimately succeed and claim the title of Nunh from Rahz, Rahz could technically still serve in that leadership (or, at least, an advisory) position while still a Tia. After all, with the apparent respect Zhet has for Rhaz now, I'm pretty sure their final challenge won't result in death or exile or anything like that. So, rather than having double-duty like Rahz has now, Zhet could handle the Nunh duties while Rahz carries on being that inspiring leader.

That honestly would be an interesting tribe to see, really. One where a Tia is effectively the leader, but is not the best choice for Nunh. The other option, of course, is that there is a Seeker matriarch who is the leader. Or perhaps even a council of elders sort of situation.

MagicCat · **08-10-2017, 02:54 PM**

Hello all! First post.

Is there any direct reason that Arcanists/Summoners are tied to diseases and such with their spells?Â

I haven't found any lore on it but it strikes me as super interesting (doubly so because from the spell descriptions you are literally filling their lungs with fluids/infecting them with a rapid degenerating cancerous-like disease).

Gegenji · **08-10-2017, 03:02 PM**

(08-10-2017, 02:54 PM)MagicCat Wrote: Hello all! First post.

Is there any direct reason that Arcanists/Summoners are tied to diseases and such with their spells?Â

I haven't found any lore on it but it strikes me as super interesting (doubly so because from the spell descriptions you are literally filling their lungs with fluids/infecting them with a rapid degenerating cancerous-like disease).

Welcome!

And, I think it actually got mentioned in the Umbral/Astral magic debate earlier... but I think it had something to do with the fact that Arcanima (the magic Arcanists/Summoners/Scholars use) does not use elements like Conjury/White Magic or Thaumaturgy/Black Magic. It's "unaspected" aether.

And so... somehow that turns into pathogens? Something like that. However, I don't know if there's actual lore in-game that references this stuff or if it's extrapolation based on theories by the players.

MagicCat · **08-10-2017, 03:23 PM**

(08-10-2017, 03:02 PM)Gegenji Wrote:
(08-10-2017, 02:54 PM)MagicCat Wrote: Hello all! First post.

Is there any direct reason that Arcanists/Summoners are tied to diseases and such with their spells?Â

I haven't found any lore on it but it strikes me as super interesting (doubly so because from the spell descriptions you are literally filling their lungs with fluids/infecting them with a rapid degenerating cancerous-like disease).

Welcome!

And, I think it actually got mentioned in the Umbral/Astral magic debate earlier... but I think it had something to do with the fact that Arcanima (the magic Arcanists/Summoners/Scholars use) does not use elements like Conjury/White Magic or Thaumaturgy/Black Magic. It's "unaspected" aether.

And so... somehow that turns into pathogens? Something like that. However, I don't know if there's actual lore in-game that references this stuff or if it's extrapolation based on theories by the players.

Thanks for the response!

Given some of the high-level spells are clearly guided expansions on the basics such as Fester (it doesn't seem to be something you just 'stumble on') is it possible such specialization is intentional? At the very least it's a pretty brutal way to kill someone even compared to the direct elemental magics, and nobody seems to bat an eye on an IC level about it.

It's certainly an interesting angle but I'm also not sure how it'd tie into general Arcanist work.

Gegenji · **08-10-2017, 03:33 PM**

To delve more into the matter, if my assumption and recollection is correct (which it probably isn't)... since you can't do such things as burn or freeze or shock or anything like that without aspecting your aether, you're just left with what aether is at its base - life energy.

So, manipulating that means diseases, pathogens, and decay. And if that's the format you're sticking to, then it's not too far-fetched to believe that the Arcanists would hone and improve on those techniques. So whether the specialization is intentional... or that it's a restriction that they simply chose to embrace... is hard to say.

Then again, as I mentioned, I could just be horribly misremembering. Laugh

Silmanos · **08-10-2017, 03:44 PM**

From near as I can tell, unless Sounnsy has a lore post hidden away some where that I haven't seen, there is actually no lore reason behind those being the Arcanist spells. In fact there is nothing in lore that states an arcanist cannot use aspected aether. They already in fact do in the form of their carbuncles. In lore what defines someone as an arcanist is that they manipulate aether through the use of aether conductive ink and arcane geometries. I believe the actual reason behind the spells available to them in game is actually simply nothing more than game play. SE already had a dps class and a heal class based off of elemental usage and needed something different. I also am of the opinion that the person who designed Arcanist/SMN had a thing for affliction warlocks in WoW. It's pretty much the same reason Conjurers only use three elements in the visible game, Game Play reasons. There is nothing actually stopping a conjurer from making use of all of the elements.

**Unnamed Mercenary** · **08-10-2017, 03:53 PM**

My speculation is that the arcanist spells cause a sort of aetherial imbalance in their targets, which manifests as the short-term effects.

We already know that too much of any aspect of aether can cause aethersickness, so what if this was further refined for that very effect? I'm still a staunch believer that any school of magic could find a way to replicate another school's without too much difficulty, but the way the aether is consumed and shaped is what makes them all different.

The battle system is really only a small selection of available spells, many of which I'd assume are either unnamed or are based on function. And that's not even touching upon "older" schools of magic that have been rediscovered and reinvented over the various eras.

tldr: I made guesses. There's not any specific lore for or against these guesses.

Sounsyy · **08-10-2017, 04:01 PM**

(08-10-2017, 02:54 PM)MagicCat Wrote: Is there any direct reason that Arcanists/Summoners are tied to diseases and such with their spells?

I don't think there's a "direct" reason given in lore, but there's a couple of things that I think might've heavily influenced the class's direction.

The first is out of lore, sorta. In an older Fanfest interview, Fernehalwes said that when the arcanist class was originally meant to release in the 1.0 version of the game, its original storyline revolved around a disease which was spreading rapidly around Vylbrand called the Green Rot. Due to the lethality of the disease, many foreign merchants and alchemists began selling fake tonics and potions, preying upon the desperate. As arcanists, being assessors of the port's custom house, it was your duty to halt the spread of this contraband and find a real cure for the disease.

Senah Chalahko Wrote:I used t' sail the five seas with the League o' Lost Bastards, but I packed it all in when me ma came down with the Green Rot. I now gather herbs for the local medicine women, hopin' that while I'm at it, I might find a cureâ€¦

Trinne Wrote:Fishback raids, legendary serpents, the Green Rot, an' now the sirensâ€¦ There be some as say we're witness t' th' Navigator ventin' Her wroth. Mayhap 'tis time I paid th' bethel another visit.

Because of development issues in the early game, the arcanist class was never put into the game until ARR and the original storyline was scrapped - though traces of it remained in the game, as seen in the quotes above and in the existing 1.0 alchemy questline where arcanists attempted to aid the Phrontistery only to be shooed away for fear that they would steal alchemy secrets to solve their own woes. Similar to how the Marauders' Guild was originally penned as the Executioners' Guild, I think the ARR redraft of the class and its abilities gave a shoutout to the original storyline. (Similar to how the marauders are no longer executioners, but abilities such as Butcher's Block and the addition of the central pirate faction known as the Bloody Executioners were included as callbacks to the original idea.)

Koji Fox Wrote:In Limsa Lominsa, the original Arcanist quest that was supposed to be released in 1.0 was actually about this disease spreading around La Noscea called the Green Rot. It would infect all of these people and they would die. To make money off of this, a bunch of merchants would try to smuggle in snake oils and tonics and things like that, and try to sell those to the people dying so they could get their money because they knew they were going to die anyway and were desperate.

You, as the Assessors (because at Mealvaanâ€™s Gate the arcanists are Assessors) would check the stuff coming in. One of the jobs would have you check ships and confiscate all of this contraband. That was going to be the original arcanist story, but that got completely scrapped and turned into the current version.

The second point of influence is from the lore behind the origins of the Arcanists. Them being the survivors and descendants of the Scholars of Nym 1600 years before. As well as being masters of arcane magicks, military strategems, aetherial manipulation, and knowledges allowing them to create and bind elemental-like deities to them and their soul stones - the ancient Scholars of Nym were also talented healers and phrontists. A single scholar and faerie able to maintain and support an entire party of Nymian marines.

Encyclopedia Eorzea - Leeches Wrote:This spell cleanses the recipient of deleterious effects. According to the histories of Nym, it was devised to counter the insidious, debilitating magicks favored by the black mages of Mhach.

In order to develop cures for myraid diseases, however, the disease usually must be studied or even recreated. Perhaps this is why the Scholars grew so adept at the art? Though adept healers of many ailments, even the scholars of Nym eventually succumbed to a disease wrought by a Mhachi-summoned voidsent. Those debilitated were sealed away within the Wanderer's Palace to quarantine the spread.

But the scholars can trace their routes, though far more distantly, to the Summoners of Allag. While I can't flat out say why the paragons of Allagan magic decided to focus so heavily upon magicks which debilitated their foes instead of vanquishing (perhaps because they already had powerful egis to accomplish that for them?) or even why it was those specific magicks which survived to the modern day, the lore book does give a hint at what might have inspired the creation of those spells:

Encyclopedia Eorzea - Tri-disaster Wrote:An offensive incantation comprised of three separate corrosive elements that gnaw away at a foe's corporeal being. This technique is thought to have been devised in remembrance of the trio of catastrophes instigated by the Warring Triad.

In short, we don't know for certain. Though we have enough info for pretty good guesswork. Hope this helps though! ^^ You can find more lore on the modern arcanists and various aetherology questions in the links below:

-Arcanist and Mealvaan's Gate Lore
-Aether and Magic Lore Compilation Index

Arashin Kujqai · **08-10-2017, 04:42 PM**

From the WoL's perspective of playing the game, is there any particular relative concept for the duty finder that's "in lore". Like why they would revisit dungeons or specific one-off trials. I know certain trials make sense with them being summoned repetitively like Titan and the like, or the minstrel's ballad that basically just has you on a nostalgia trip through them, or hard mdoe anything having you revisit after a bit of time has taken place. However I wondered if duty finder had any physical attachment to lore or reason or if that's just a game mechanic purposed thing for us to be able to queue easily for specific instances. If so, all the dungeons WoL does are basically one-offs then I assume? We go there, it's cleared/completed, then onto the next one.

**Unnamed Mercenary** · **08-10-2017, 04:51 PM**

(08-10-2017, 04:42 PM)Valic Wrote: From the WoL's perspective of playing the game, is there any particular relative concept for the duty finder that's "in lore". Like why they would revisit dungeons or specific one-off trials. I know certain trials make sense with them being summoned repetitively like Titan and the like, or the minstrel's ballad that basically just has you on a nostalgia trip through them, or hard mdoe anything having you revisit after a bit of time has taken place. However I wondered if duty finder had any physical attachment to lore or reason or if that's just a game mechanic purposed thing for us to be able to queue easily for specific instances. If so, all the dungeons WoL does are basically one-offs then I assume? We go there, it's cleared/completed, then onto the next one.

The Duty Finder is 100% gameplay mechanic. In 1.0, all dungeons were open-world or you had to join a "content finder" by walking to the entrance. Even the primal fights involved giving Louisoix materials to teleport you there. (Part of this was carried into 2.0 with the whole attune to the beast tribe's aetheryte to fight that primal.)

But you'll also notice that all the hard mode dungeons have additional story to them too. And the extremes. (But not really savage afaik. But that might've changed in 4.0 by giving more story).

Valence · **08-10-2017, 05:57 PM**

Given how Allagan were masters of bioengineering and flesh/organic aetherochemical manipulation, I'm not really surprised that their summoners privileged spells like that.

Jana · **08-11-2017, 01:34 PM**

It's worth keeping in mind that we do have examples of schools of magic casting different spells. In 1.0, THM cast the debilitating spells like Bio while CNJ cast from all elements. The OOC reason for the change was to streamline things and have enough spells for 3 casters, be we do know the elemental wheel from 1.0 is still canon and that the THM guild changed Masters and teaching methods between the Calamity and the start of 2.0's story.

Pascaleret · **08-15-2017, 05:29 PM**

Is the sword and crystal medium combo restricted to red magic/mages? 'Cause.. I'd like to have a character use the chicken knife as a generic spellsword or something rather than roleplaying an actual Red Mageâ„¢.

Gegenji · **08-15-2017, 05:43 PM**

(08-15-2017, 05:29 PM)Threed Crowley Wrote: Is the sword and crystal medium combo restricted to red magic/mages? 'Cause.. I'd like to have a character use the chicken knife as a generic spellsword or something rather than roleplaying an actual Red Mageâ„¢.

I'm pretty sure you'll be fine. There are plenty of folks who don't do the DRK thing and instead are just "dude with big sword." A rapier is a simple enough weapon that I think you can get away with just being a fencer or something similar without having to go the whole RDM route.

The only complication I could see is potentially having to tell folks that the crystal isn't there or something if you're running just the sword.

Pascaleret · **08-15-2017, 05:57 PM**

(08-15-2017, 05:43 PM)Gegenji Wrote: The only complication I could see is potentially having to tell folks that the crystal isn't there or something if you're running just the sword.

Yeah, that's the part I'm worried about since the crystal medium seems like it would be something unique to Red Mages. I was hoping to get away with it by saying it's just part of the ensemble since the little chocobo doesn't look like anything special.

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General Lore Questions

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes