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***Teadrinker*** · **10-14-2017, 11:44 PM**

(10-14-2017, 05:53 PM)Parvacake Wrote:
(10-14-2017, 04:44 PM)Faye Wrote:
(10-14-2017, 10:21 AM)Kaiverta Wrote: Setting up IC drama. I personally almost never pre-plan RPs. I like spontaneity more than planned situations, but sometimes planning things is required. It becomes an issue when the other person says things like, "Omg it's so juicy, I love it!" Basically when it becomes gossip.

I don't understand the issue here unless I'm misinterpreting this. Not everyone likes soap opera style drama in their RP (I think that's more a matter of personal preference but I guess could be a "red flag" if someone has had bad experiences with that or believes it's indicative of some bigger problem) but it just sounds like... someone getting excited about the RP? Shouldn't that be a good thing? I love when scenes and role-play actually evoke some sort of reaction, or when the person I'm RPing with is excited for things we have planned, that's the whole fun of RP.
I think what they mean is when someone preplans this kind of thing purely for drama's sake. Less so for progressing a story and moresoÂ because they want to recreate Days of Our Lives: Eorzea Edition.

"IC Drama" can also mean different things to different people.

Like when I hear IC drama I think mystery and intrigue and combat etc. Someone else might think "love triangle" and think that's great RP meanwhile other people could be running for the hills.

Faye · **10-14-2017, 11:49 PM**

(10-14-2017, 05:53 PM)Parvacake Wrote: I think what they mean is when someone preplans this kind of thing purely for drama's sake. Less so for progressing a story and moresoÂ because they want to recreate Days of Our Lives: Eorzea Edition.

I guess I have admittedly watched enough Days in my time that I don't see that as a unanimously bad thing LOL just a matter of people needing to be on the same page about what they want happening in the RP

Kaiverta · **10-15-2017, 01:36 AM**

(10-14-2017, 05:53 PM)Parvacake Wrote:
(10-14-2017, 04:44 PM)Faye Wrote:
(10-14-2017, 10:21 AM)Kaiverta Wrote: Setting up IC drama. I personally almost never pre-plan RPs. I like spontaneity more than planned situations, but sometimes planning things is required. It becomes an issue when the other person says things like, "Omg it's so juicy, I love it!" Basically when it becomes gossip.

I don't understand the issue here unless I'm misinterpreting this. Not everyone likes soap opera style drama in their RP (I think that's more a matter of personal preference but I guess could be a "red flag" if someone has had bad experiences with that or believes it's indicative of some bigger problem) but it just sounds like... someone getting excited about the RP? Shouldn't that be a good thing? I love when scenes and role-play actually evoke some sort of reaction, or when the person I'm RPing with is excited for things we have planned, that's the whole fun of RP.
I think what they mean is when someone preplans this kind of thing purely for drama's sake. Less so for progressing a story and moresoÂ because they want to recreate Days of Our Lives: Eorzea Edition.

I hope this tags you both... o.o

But yes, when people do this sort of thing purely for the OOC juiciness of there being drama ICly. For instance, I had one player who would sort of do things to try embarrass my character because that player OOCly was a gossip and loved drama, so she saturated her RP with her OOC attitude and behaviour. There was no furthering of the storyline, and it even cut the storyline short in some cases, purely because she wanted the drama. She even went against how her character had been (with mine) in the past for drama's sake, and that ended their IC friendship.

Things like that. :3

C'kayah Polaali · **10-15-2017, 02:26 PM**

These are all fantastic examples, and many of them raise red flags with me when I see them.

However, I think, at the end of the day the big ones for me - and by that I mean the sort of red flags that will make me want to not RP with someone in a significant way - are RPers who say "no" instead of "yes, and...", and RPers who are completely unwilling to have any OOC discussion about how a scene/event/approach might work.

The "no" vs "yes, and..." thing is straight out of improv. When we RP, we're doing improv. We're putting on an unscripted show for our own (and hopefully other people's) entertainment. There's a cardinal rule in improv that you should try to respond to the other actors in a way that builds upon what they do. Your actions should say "yes, and...", instead of shutting them down with "no". In my experience, RPers who shut down RP with "no" tend to be the ones who are unduly focused on "winning" the RP.

The "no OOC discussion of approach" thing is probably a little more controversial, but let me explain. When I'm bored, I tend to hang out in places like the Quicksand looking for RPers. I examine people's search text, I look for characters who are walking or are dressed in appropriate outfits, and I'll send them /tells saying things like "Hi, what sort of RP are you looking for?"

Some people get very insistent that they don't want to discuss anything like that at all, that they want to let RP develop naturally from the approach. I can understand that, but in my experience many (if not most) of those approaches devolve into simple "Hot, isn't it?" conversations that are soon over. If someone doesn't provide anything for you to get traction with, then the RP won't develop anywhere. There's another slice of "no OOC discussion" players who fall on the extreme opposite of this. They want the stories to happen to their characters without any control on their part. It sounds good in principle, but it tends to become hard to RP with those people because their characters are constantly getting into terrible binds. I think there's something about players like that where they're attracted to players who want to force actions on others, and those players are attracted to them as the ideal victims. I have no problem with people wanting that, but I really don't want to be caught in the middle of that.

Mermaid · **10-16-2017, 12:45 AM**

(10-15-2017, 02:26 PM)Ckayah Polaali Wrote: The "no OOC discussion of approach" thing is probably a little more controversial, but let me explain. When I'm bored, I tend to hang out in places like the Quicksand looking for RPers. I examine people's search text, I look for characters who are walking or are dressed in appropriate outfits, and I'll send them /tells saying things like "Hi, what sort of RP are you looking for?"

Some people get very insistent that they don't want to discuss anything like that at all, that they want to let RP develop naturally from the approach. I can understand that, but in my experience many (if not most) of those approaches devolve into simple "Hot, isn't it?" conversations that are soon over. If someone doesn't provide anything for you to get traction with, then the RP won't develop anywhere.

Oh, I'm with you here. I wouldn't say "no OOC discussion" is a red flag that might keep me from role playing with someone but it is a sign that it may not go further than a simple conversation and the characters never interacting again. I play a character that needs some pushes here and there to make her interact with people. Unless the character she's interacting with is particularly outgoing and eager to make friends then it's unlikely to develop naturally. Preplanning a reason for interaction, even a simple one, always works best for me. It doesn't have to be a railroad and things can still happen naturally in between.

I also like to know what's on the other person's mind and what they might want when/if more does happen. I'm okay with all kinds of stuff (like injuries and romance) but I like being asked first so I can discuss any concerns I might have. We role play for enjoyment and I think we owe it to each other to at least try to make sure the other side is happy and comfortable with how a scene is going. That's something you need OOC for.

Kaiverta · **10-19-2017, 12:08 AM**

(10-15-2017, 01:36 AM)Kaiverta Wrote:
(10-14-2017, 05:53 PM)Parvacake Wrote:
(10-14-2017, 04:44 PM)Faye Wrote:
(10-14-2017, 10:21 AM)Kaiverta Wrote: Setting up IC drama. I personally almost never pre-plan RPs. I like spontaneity more than planned situations, but sometimes planning things is required. It becomes an issue when the other person says things like, "Omg it's so juicy, I love it!" Basically when it becomes gossip.

I don't understand the issue here unless I'm misinterpreting this. Not everyone likes soap opera style drama in their RP (I think that's more a matter of personal preference but I guess could be a "red flag" if someone has had bad experiences with that or believes it's indicative of some bigger problem) but it just sounds like... someone getting excited about the RP? Shouldn't that be a good thing? I love when scenes and role-play actually evoke some sort of reaction, or when the person I'm RPing with is excited for things we have planned, that's the whole fun of RP.
I think what they mean is when someone preplans this kind of thing purely for drama's sake. Less so for progressing a story and moresoÂ because they want to recreate Days of Our Lives: Eorzea Edition.

I hope this tags you both... o.o

But yes, when people do this sort of thing purely for the OOC juiciness of there being drama ICly. For instance, I had one player who would sort of do things to try embarrass my character because that player OOCly was a gossip and loved drama, so she saturated her RP with her OOC attitude and behaviour. There was no furthering of the storyline, and it even cut the storyline short in some cases, purely because she wanted the drama. She even went against how her character had been (with mine) in the past for drama's sake, and that ended their IC friendship.

Things like that. :3

Perfect example! What I was talking about JUST happened about an hour ago.

This one person, who was in my example before, just said, "Who wants to do a mass murder? My character would never ask people IC but I want to do it OOC." That's a small, relatively sort of harmless thing, but it's an example of creating IC drama for OOC purposes. That is a huge red flag for me. It has always led to worse.

Faye · **10-19-2017, 04:16 AM**

(10-19-2017, 12:08 AM)Kaiverta Wrote: Perfect example! What I was talking about JUST happened about an hour ago.

This one person, who was in my example before, just said, "Who wants to do a mass murder? My character would never ask people IC but I want to do it OOC." That's a small, relatively sort of harmless thing, but it's an example of creating IC drama for OOC purposes. That is a huge red flag for me. It has always led to worse.

I mean, on some level you gotta push things along OOC and make things happen. The RP doesn't always flow in an exciting direction naturally. Everything we do in RP is for "OOC purposes," we're doing this for OOC entertainment and not to robotically carry out the lives of some pretend people. But I get what you mean it's annoying when things that make no sense IC are done for OOC shits and giggles. It's about keeping a balance between OOC enjoyment and IC believability.

Lucius Ignatius · **10-19-2017, 07:23 AM**

Generally I tend to be open and accepting of almost anyone within certain bounds--I give anyone the benefit of the doubt until I know them better. That being said, after being in multiple RP communities over the years, I've come to know quite a few Red Flags. I'll put a few that come to mind for now (hopefully these don't come off as peevish!), but I may think of more later. A lot of these have been mentioned I'm sure, but I'd like to add my two cents.

FC/Guild Cliques. Pretty much the typical High School kind, except within a guild or FC. The kind that officers/guild leaders form, and they always treat anyone who joined the guild/FC as lesser players/RPers, or supporting characters in almost any RP or plot. A good FC/Guild finds ways to attempt to include everyone, not treat them as a number. Its why some larger FC/Guilds aren't always that great, because you tend to be on the side lines.

Characters that constantly cause IC drama and pull almost everyone on the server into it, and when caught, never take consequences seriously, or allow a final resolution to their conflict. I'm not saying there can't be evil doers or large evil plots--those can be awesome! But, when playing an evil character, I think you should consider a more 3-dimensional approach. Other than saying 'they are evil' or possessed, or 'willingly' evil because of power--that's all well and good, but they should have a deeper motive than this, in my opinion. I'm not trying to attempt to tell someone 'how' to RP, but all I ask is to keep the players who are interacting with you in mind. If you are a hero going against a villain, it isn't fun to see your RP have no long-term effect (at least to some extent--not trying to say villains should always be repressed, but villains should consider permanent changes to their character in various ways so that the hero's RP doesn't feel wasted to that player). I also think heroes should take some losses too where appropriate, just make sure neither side's RP feels like its worthless or constantly on-going without some consequence. I could see if it was a common thief that steals things from time to time, thats fine. But villains who murder/maim/etc. without care, you should expect to be thwarted for good at some point. Being involved in these types of scenarios often across many games, have lead me to be somewhat selective in who I go after in terms of IC conflict.

Partners who do not communicate OOC. For the love of all that is good, please communicate when something is wrong. I have had people who do not say a word through out their RP, before or after the sessions. Sometimes it isn't needed, but after RPing down a certain path, and the person says nothing, or says 'everything is fine', and later on ends up attempting to force a path on you that wasn't discussed at all/you happen to not agree with and then says 'Well...' at the very end--that kind of player I refuse to continue RPing with after the first whiff of it. I'd consider this one of my largest of all red flags. I am totally fine with changing courses or retconning things, but I want communication where it matters--don't continue on and force things without asking or telling your partner how you feel. Don't wait until the last minute/post to say something. Most partners (if they are good RPers, in my opinion) will understand and work with you if you speak up. If not, then they aren't worth your time. I understand that IC should come before OOC decisions, but in these cases, speak up.

Partners who lash out at you/be passive aggressive/take things the wrong way when you are expressing your feelings on the RP in a constructive manner/won't analyze what you are trying to say. To elaborate a little on this: say you have been in a plot or RP for a good while (maybe 3-4 months IRL time), things aren't going in a way that you feel comfortable with IC, after trying to resolve things IC and some minor OOC questioning, so you speak up to try explaining your problems in a constructive, calm way. You are met with the person suddenly accusing you of various things and instant hate, when all you were trying to do was explain you do not feel comfortable with certain things in said RP. You -liked- the RP and the people involved, but you wanted to try talking things out so you could perhaps continue, but you have the person greet you with hostility. Again, communication is always key for me. If someone refuses to communicate where it matters or cant have a civil conversation about things, that is a huuuuuuge red flag to me.

Futas, F-lists... all that kind of deal. I'm okay with stating character sexual preferences in the note tab, and the whole M/D RP thing, but if someone approaches with a clear intent to score an ERP, I will see how they RP first. If my character is involved with someone, he will not see anyone for that reason, period. If they start badgering me OOC, thats when I start shifting away. If they try getting to know my character and they aren't too pushy/my character isn't involved and they are generally easy to speak to OOC, I may consider a romantic arc. But not off the bat.

There is more I am sure. But these are some big ones I haven't seen posted.

Kaiverta · **10-19-2017, 07:46 AM**

(10-19-2017, 04:16 AM)Faye Wrote:
(10-19-2017, 12:08 AM)Kaiverta Wrote: Perfect example! What I was talking about JUST happened about an hour ago.

This one person, who was in my example before, just said, "Who wants to do a mass murder? My character would never ask people IC but I want to do it OOC." That's a small, relatively sort of harmless thing, but it's an example of creating IC drama for OOC purposes. That is a huge red flag for me. It has always led to worse.

I mean, on some level you gotta push things along OOC and make things happen. The RP doesn't always flow in an exciting direction naturally. Everything we do in RP is for "OOC purposes," we're doing this for OOC entertainment and not to robotically carry out the lives of some pretend people. But I get what you mean it's annoying when things that make no sense IC are done for OOC shits and giggles. It's about keeping a balance between OOC enjoyment and IC believability.

Yep, I've got no problem with creating storylines, but this one person is actually a gossip and drama-causing Queen, so in her case, when she says stuff like above, it usually isn't for the benefit of the story.

Faye · **10-19-2017, 04:13 PM**

(10-19-2017, 07:46 AM)Kaiverta Wrote: Yep, I've got no problem with creating storylines, but this one person is actually a gossip and drama-causing Queen, so in her case, when she says stuff like above, it usually isn't for the benefit of the story.

Not everything has to be for "story's" sake, though, and what doesn't advance a group story or your character's personal story could still contribute to their own character's personal growth. Once again RP is for fun, not to mechanically carry out some "story." Guess I still fail to see the harm in it as long as it makes some kind of IC sense and isn't done throwing caution to the wind for some OOC whim.

Kaiverta · **10-19-2017, 07:11 PM**

(10-19-2017, 04:13 PM)Faye Wrote:
(10-19-2017, 07:46 AM)Kaiverta Wrote: Yep, I've got no problem with creating storylines, but this one person is actually a gossip and drama-causing Queen, so in her case, when she says stuff like above, it usually isn't for the benefit of the story.

Not everything has to be for "story's" sake, though, and what doesn't advance a group story or your character's personal story could still contribute to their own character's personal growth. Once again RP is for fun, not to mechanically carry out some "story." Guess I still fail to see the harm in it as long as it makes some kind of IC sense and isn't done throwing caution to the wind for some OOC whim.

Nothing wrong with that either, but this person does it specifically to create OOC drama stemming from the RP. So she in particular is a red-flag case. There are plenty of people who aren't like that, too.

C'kayah Polaali · **10-19-2017, 10:20 PM**

(10-16-2017, 12:45 AM)Mermaid Wrote:
(10-15-2017, 02:26 PM)Ckayah Polaali Wrote: The "no OOC discussion of approach" thing is probably a little more controversial, but let me explain. When I'm bored, I tend to hang out in places like the Quicksand looking for RPers. I examine people's search text, I look for characters who are walking or are dressed in appropriate outfits, and I'll send them /tells saying things like "Hi, what sort of RP are you looking for?"

Some people get very insistent that they don't want to discuss anything like that at all, that they want to let RP develop naturally from the approach. I can understand that, but in my experience many (if not most) of those approaches devolve into simple "Hot, isn't it?" conversations that are soon over. If someone doesn't provide anything for you to get traction with, then the RP won't develop anywhere.

Oh, I'm with you here. I wouldn't say "no OOC discussion" is a red flag that might keep me from role playing with someone but it is a sign that it may not go further than a simple conversation and the characters never interacting again. I play a character that needs some pushes here and there to make her interact with people. Unless the character she's interacting with is particularly outgoing and eager to make friends then it's unlikely to develop naturally. Preplanning a reason for interaction, even a simple one, always works best for me. It doesn't have to be a railroad and things can still happen naturally in between.

I also like to know what's on the other person's mind and what they might want when/if more does happen. I'm okay with all kinds of stuff (like injuries and romance) but I like being asked first so I can discuss any concerns I might have. We role play for enjoyment and I think we owe it to each other to at least try to make sure the other side is happy and comfortable with how a scene is going. That's something you need OOC for.

Yeah, exactly. I mean, I get that some people want everything to happen based on IC interactions, and they feel that any sort of OOC discussion harms that possibility, but honestly most people who feel that way are very passionate about it and they'll *say* so, OOCly, if I ask them via a /tell. I have no problem with that, and often those players can be very good.

What I'm more talking about are players who, in response to "What sort of RP do you like", simply say "Anything". I've learned that this usually translates into either "I'm not fun to RP with", or "I expect you to come up with everything and provide me with RP on a platter. But I'll tell you if I don't like it."

Plus the aforementioned "I am open to anything to happen to my character, and I shall not object to anything" people. Which, in my experience, means that they'll try to suck me into every two bit drama that glances in their direction.

Shofie · **10-20-2017, 09:31 PM**

I can't speak for everyone, but here are some things that have proven to be reliable red flags for me:

Controlling RP partners; i.e. If a partner insists you RP with them constantly. Doesn't want you to roleplay with other people ever. Gets upset if you do, or moves into the guilt trip because you did, like you "owe" them something now.

Partners who guilt trip you: "It's been a long time since we've roleplayed! C'mon!"Â

People who want to RP with me (or any artists) because they want free art. Constantly dropping hints I should draw a scene, etc.

Rance · **10-21-2017, 02:46 AM**

I consider myself maybe too forgiving when it comes to RPing. Spelling mistakes? Mistells? No capitalization? I forgive them all because at some point I made those errors as well. But when someone approaches my female characters with the following search info: "FU/F/Trans Only" or similar, I know I am going to have a bad time.
I have nothing against people who have those preferences but that usually is a bad sign in my experience. Jesus.

Ramen · **10-23-2017, 02:14 PM**

Whenever I see someone tag their character with "Trash" or more specifically "Trash cat/catte". It ain't one of those 100% all the time those people'll be an issue but I'm learning to just downright avoid that sort of thing and hope one day someone will surprise me.

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[Discussion] Red Flags in RP/RP Partners?

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes