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K'nahli · **09-11-2013, 03:14 PM**

I'm afraid to read those replies. How far into the storyline must I be to safely do so?

Ashren Dotharl · **09-11-2013, 03:27 PM**

(09-11-2013, 03:14 PM)K Wrote: I'm afraid to read those replies. How far into the storyline must I be to safely do so?

Beat Garuda then come back and read the spoilers.

Though I have to agree that Summoner completely acknowledges that you have defeated the Primals, so at the very least we must acknowledge that anyone who is RPing a Summoner has slayed at least one Primal in their life, if not all three.

K'nahli · **09-11-2013, 03:31 PM**

(09-11-2013, 03:27 PM)Ashren Snow Wrote:
(09-11-2013, 03:14 PM)K Wrote: I'm afraid to read those replies. How far into the storyline must I be to safely do so?
Beat Garuda then come back and read the spoilers.

Though I have to agree that Summoner completely acknowledges that you have defeated the Primals, so at the very least we must acknowledge that anyone who is RPing a Summoner has slayed at least one Primal in their life, if not all three.

Have yet to do Titan ;; But thank you for your answer.

Rinh Hallani · **09-11-2013, 04:14 PM**

Yes the summoner job isn't easy to dance around. Personally, I've been RPing that Rihn can summon a primal's energy but haven't actually said I've defeated Ifrit or whatever.

Oroban · **09-11-2013, 04:31 PM**

I think it's believable, but only if done right. I mean, I just finished the Company of Heroes questline (I'm right about to fight Titan, oh boy!), and there's what, at least 8 or so of them you meet, with a significant number dead and/or tempered, with the survivors sometimes blind, crippled, or otherwise forcibly retired. Defeating Primals is messy business, to say it in a polite manner. Having to execute a longtime friend after they get tempered is enough to make me walk away from the business, I'd say.

Swift Nightclaw · **09-11-2013, 04:33 PM**

I think it would be more fun to claim to have it and have stories of the battle where it was obtained....with some intentionally placed inconsistencies.Â Always leave a little bit of question whether or not it's real or a lie.

There's fun to be had spinning tall tales, or having forgeries of items you've heard tale of and claiming they're the real deal.Â It's difficult to do right, but if you can play it so it feels believable but also doubtful at the same time, it can be fun. And act overly offended if someone questions the authenticity (but never let them do any close up inspection of the trophy in question!).

FreelanceWizard · **09-11-2013, 07:18 PM**

Because the storyline allows for Primals to be repeatedly summoned and defeated (so having defeated one isn't stepping on others' plots), and because PCs as written by the main scenario quest are a subset of combat-capable characters, I feel it's entirely reasonable to have defeated Primals ICly. Taking down a Primal is not special for PCs, at least not PCs that fall into the category of "have the Echo" (which is a subset of adventurers, who are subset of combat-capable characters, who are subset of PC race characters, who are subset of characters in the world -- PCs are a rare breed, indeed). It is, unfortunately, a war of attrition against a force that has seemingly infinite resources, which is why the Scions and the Garleans alike are both looking for ways to solve the problem once and for all. Clearly, defeating the Primals in battle is not that solution. You may win and minimize the loss of life, but some loss of life or minds is inevitable. Defeating the Primal is only a stopgap measure, and the major threat is not "a Primal might be summoned" but "Primals will be summoned so often that they can't be stopped and ultimately consume all of the Aether." To dismiss this is to toss away a pretty major point of the main scenario quest, IMO.

No one who's taking down Primals IC is really claiming to be far ahead of other PCs in power, since by the lore and the quest lines, the option is open to any PC and the ability for one PC to do it doesn't restrict others from doing so (assuming they don't claim to have destroyed the Primal utterly so it can't be resummoned, but that's a whole other problem; defeating a Primal is merely dispersing its physical form).

BlessedSilence · **09-11-2013, 11:48 PM**

(09-11-2013, 11:26 AM)Ashren Snow Wrote: Do you think it's safe to say Primals can be defeated ICly since they'll always come back, or would you feel it's too mary sue to do that?

Too mary sue.

For me, they are created by the will and aether. Â I mean even when killed they disappear. Â So .. how does one take a trophy of the home? Â It will be gone the second the primal dies as the essence and will that held it together dissipated.

Nah, it's hard enough with everyone saying they defeated Ifrit. Â I personally have nothing to do with the main story with my character.

C'io Behkt · **09-12-2013, 12:04 AM**

I'm surprised none of the Summoners have brought this up yet:

In the SMN questline, you learn that the Immortal Flames keep a LIST of people who have defeated Ifrit without getting Tempered. (Because you know what happens to those who've been Tempered...) It's not a publicly available list, sure, but it exists. Conceivably, any of the people on that list could become a summoner, and it isn't a stretch for a PC to be on that list, especially for those with the Echo.

And just to echo (*cough*), the storyline also points at the Immortal Flames fighting a war of attrition against the Amal'jaa, who are constantly summoning Ifrit. The Ul'dahn primal situation is more unique because of the rich mineral deposits of Thanalan which allow the beastmen to keep conjuring their god with impunity.

With that in mind, it's easier for a Summoner to claim rights to Ifrit, but less plausible for one to claim Titan, who appears rarely, and Garuda, who is infinitely more cunning (and craycray).

EDIT: Oh, and OBVIOUSLY nobody is going to go and say, "I did it solo," because that's insanity. Everything I've stated above of course requires either an Immortal Flames task force or an elite adventurer group (which, in the canon, also exist in fairly high quantity).

Lament · **09-12-2013, 12:22 AM**

With an IC excuse, I say go for it. But unless you're a summoner, who pretty much needs an IC excuse to actually be one, or otherwise formerly part of a group who would have a reason to have been in the presence of a Primal at some point or another (e.g. part of a tempered community), I'd say skip it.

DAISHI · **09-12-2013, 12:33 AM**

Mind you, it's within your right as a roleplayer to deny another roleplayer the claim. They might say they killed THE PRIMAL, but that doesn't mean you have to believe it, or acknowledge it. In fact your role as a roleplayer may be to call that person making the claim simply insane.

Sigyn Shieldbreaker · **09-12-2013, 12:34 AM**

(09-12-2013, 12:33 AM)DAISHI Wrote: Mind you, it's within your right as a roleplayer to deny another roleplayer the claim. They might say they killed THE PRIMAL, but that doesn't mean you have to believe it, or acknowledge it. In fact your role as a roleplayer may be to call that person making the claim simply insane.

I don't think I agree with this mindset at all.

---

To elaborate, I'm more in line with Lament on this in a way. And while I may gently ask someone OOCly if they know about the lore and redirect them here if not. But I wouldn't just outwardly deny it so much as try to help them make it more plausible. Of course I'm thinking -a- Primal not -the- Primal but some people might not realize that the summonings aren't the -actual- creature itself.

Lament · **09-12-2013, 12:39 AM**

(09-12-2013, 12:33 AM)DAISHI Wrote: Mind you, it's within your right as a roleplayer to deny another roleplayer the claim. They might say they killed THE PRIMAL, but that doesn't mean you have to believe it, or acknowledge it. In fact your role as a roleplayer may be to call that person making the claim simply insane.

I'm more of the mindset that it's within my right as a roleplayer to refuse to RP with a person if I disagree with the way they're playing their character.

FreelanceWizard · **09-12-2013, 12:45 AM**

(09-12-2013, 12:34 AM)Siobhain Wrote:
(09-12-2013, 12:33 AM)DAISHI Wrote: Mind you, it's within your right as a roleplayer to deny another roleplayer the claim. They might say they killed THE PRIMAL, but that doesn't mean you have to believe it, or acknowledge it. In fact your role as a roleplayer may be to call that person making the claim simply insane.

I don't think I agree with this mindset at all.

I'm actually on DAISHI's side here, if the claim is outlandish and contradictory to lore and we're talking about IC responses (calling another RPer crazy OOC is never a good move Smile

). An example would be, "I killed Ifrit -- the only Ifrit, and he's not coming back ever, because he's dead permanently." That's a claim that's clearly contradictory to lore, since a major element of the story of the Scions is trying to figure out exactly how to deal with the Primals; killing them clearly doesn't work, since they can always be resummoned (being constructs of Aether and belief). About the only IC response you can have to someone claiming that they've permanently eliminated a Primal is, "You're nuts." You always have the OOC option of walking away, of course, but either way, productive RP ends. Accepting the claim is, I suppose, an option, but then you're rapidly deviating from lore to the benefit of another player -- that's a huge imposition with far-reaching impacts. It's better that one not make claims such as in this first place.

To a larger point, I think there's some confusion on this thread between destroying a Primal and destroying a Primal permanently. The former is supported in lore for elite adventurers (i.e., PCs) and large companies of relatively mundane warriors (i.e., the Immortal Flames). The latter is clearly out of bounds, as it stomps on a major element of the game's story and other players' stories.

DAISHI · **09-12-2013, 12:45 AM**

There are few times I'll absolutely refuse to RP with someone. Hell, one person I knew claimed to be a Chocobo, another to be a half demon miqote.

But I certainly reserve the right to RP and claim you to be a stark raving loon.

Poll: Do you think it's okay to kill a Primal ICly? You do not have permission to vote in this poll.
Primals can be killed ICly	76.67%	23	76.67%
Primals can't be killed ICly	23.33%	7	23.33%
Total		30 vote(s)	100%

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Primal Slayers IC

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes