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Sigyn Shieldbreaker · **09-13-2013, 11:49 AM**

We kind of have to remember-- when it comes to romance, and for many RPers, just romance, some of us want good things to happen to our characters and not have them hurt.

There -are- plenty of people IRL who, once they find out someone isn't single/looking, go about their business. There are probably characters who are this way too. But that's just in terms of romance.

As Crimmera probably saw because they played on WRA in WoW too, romance is ideal to a -loooooot- of RPers for their character. It's stable, it's on-going, it's practically guaranteed dual-story development and sometimes we don't mean to but it takes over for us based on other factors. If we pick a partner, yes we can work towards it because it just turns out that way, but chances are, they're at least up to your standards or are at least in line with your mindset, which is kind of rare. Even the best RPers probably aren't going to allow their characters to respond well to a suave character who only wants them for sex, or with an RPer who doesn't agree with what they want to do like fading to black. That's OOC affecting your IC too.Â

But those reasons for not wanting to pair up with anyone really, are widely accepted. I personally go with what you do, Aysun, most everything you say pretty much rings true with me, but I can understand not wanting your character to invest a lot of effort towards someone only to find out that they're just not going to be interested at all despite any work you put in because they're just dead set against a romance either with the character or OOCly. It's depressing IRL and it's more depressing IC, and some people just don't want that to happen.

Also we have to remember that some people can be very sensitive for good reason in this game and especially in RP. It ranges from shy and concerned that what they're doing isn't good enough to fear of rejection. You can inadvertently have a lot of unintentionally negative impact on the person behind the monitor based on what you choose to say to them. It's not the same for all of us, but it still exists so whenever we can be accepting of someone else's stance on things, we should do our best to do so, even if it means we won't be RPing together.

Naunet · **09-13-2013, 12:11 PM**

(09-13-2013, 11:49 AM)Siobhain Wrote: Even the best RPers probably aren't going to allow their characters to respond well to a suave character who only wants them for sex

If the character is suave enough, and my own character is of the type to fall for such a thing, then certainly I will "allow" them to do so. That's an IC thing. The second half of your sentence about the fade-to-black conflict is an OOC issue, and of course one should alwaysÂ feel as though they have control OOCly, especially with these kinds of things. So yea, I'll let my characters do whatever the hell my characters want to/are manipulated to/are required to do, but I certainly reserve full power of decision when it comes to what to RP and what to handwave with "and this happened".

shdwsng · **09-13-2013, 01:00 PM**

(09-13-2013, 11:09 AM)Alothia Wrote: I think that the biggest part of romantic RP is the communication. While your character is your character, you also have to take into consideration the player behind that character. That doesn't mean you go metagaming the situation, but that you communicate with your partner about things that are happening.Â

I don't want to RP a relationship with someone who doesn't communicate with me. I did that once, and it was awful. While I enjoyed the drama ICly, the drama that stemmed from it OOCly made me miserable. RP should be something you enjoy, and if you don't enjoy/get stressed out by the drama that could occur, you should communicate that ahead of time. It doesn't make anyone a bad RPer. Everyone has their own limits.

This. All of the This. Communications are CRUCIAL in relationships, whether IC or OOC or any other C you care to name. If you're roleplaying, then you have to be clear about what will and will not work for you as a player. The best times I've had with IC relationships involved them sort of happening organically, but then the players turned around and coordinated on the back end to make sure that we stayed on the right side of okay.

That being said, I tend to also follow Aysun's way of thinking. IC drama is the fun kind of drama, and it does add depth to the characters. That being said, I've also been on the end of "argh life is crap and I don't want to DEAL with this drama right now". Which is why if someone's getting into a relationship with one of my characters I take the time to get them used to talking OOCly about it as well. If you're not up to dealing with the drama, then there's no shame in saying, "Hey, my day's been crap. Can we skip the fighting today?". I also usually have an alt or two sitting around so that I have alternatives if playing one character gets stressful. There's no shame in having an OOC alt if you just want to play the game.

Finally? Naunet hit the nail on the head. If two characters get close enough to "go there", then that's wonderful for them. However, refusing to "fade to black" at the other player's request is a special kind of being a complete jerk and you shouldn't do it. You'll have much better luck getting them to play with you again if you're not a pushy complete jerk.

Aysun · **09-13-2013, 02:09 PM**

(09-13-2013, 11:49 AM)Siobhain Wrote: We kind of have to remember-- when it comes to romance, and for many RPers, just romance, some of us want good things to happen to our characters and not have them hurt.

There -are- plenty of people IRL who, once they find out someone isn't single/looking, go about their business. There are probably characters who are this way too. But that's just in terms of romance.

That's fine, that's "IC" IRL. The problem is they find out OOCly, not ICly, that it won't work in the end, and then make their character suddenly not have feelings or what have you. That's metagaming. I don't like it. xD

Swift Nightclaw · **09-13-2013, 02:34 PM**

(09-13-2013, 11:09 AM)Alothia Wrote: I think that the biggest part of romantic RP is the communication. While your character is your character, you also have to take into consideration the player behind that character. That doesn't mean you go metagaming the situation, but that you communicate with your partner about things that are happening.Â

This also holds true in the complete opposite of this thread: Rivals.

The best RPs where two characters are intensely opposed, completely venomous and absolutely hate one another to the point they want nothing more than to kill each other, but have to work together for whatever reason can be extremely rewarding to play and entertaining for others to watch.....if the rival characters' players are communicating.

I've had RPs where the characters are at each others' throats and the insults are really harsh...because they were fed in /tell.Â I might remember something that happened before and tell my rival's player (hey, remember a few weeks ago, ___ happened? You should totally use that against him) and they've replied (I totally forgot about that! Mwaha. Don't forget, though, _____).

It takes out a little bit of the spur of the moment and free flow out of the RP, but it builds a very engaging experience to build the story and put on a show for others involved in the RP as well and can be very rewarding in the long run.

Any relationship with intense emotion, love or hate (and a spectrum between) is better when there's OOC discussion and understanding of expectations.

My human paladin in EverQuest was in love with a high elf paladin, but it was a slow build romance over a great length of time.Â When we weren't RPing the characters and just playing the game, we'd sometimes discuss our characters and the building relationship OOCly as if we were two authors discussing plot ideas for characters in the novel we were co-writing.Â Because that's essentially what we're doing, co-authoring a story/script with large gaps for improv and later taking on the role of the character to act out the story.

LiadansWhisper · **09-13-2013, 03:21 PM**

(09-13-2013, 02:09 PM)Aysun Wrote:
(09-13-2013, 11:49 AM)Siobhain Wrote: We kind of have to remember-- when it comes to romance, and for many RPers, just romance, some of us want good things to happen to our characters and not have them hurt.

There -are- plenty of people IRL who, once they find out someone isn't single/looking, go about their business. There are probably characters who are this way too. But that's just in terms of romance.
That's fine, that's "IC" IRL. The problem is they find out OOCly, not ICly, that it won't work in the end, and then make their character suddenly not have feelings or what have you. That's metagaming. I don't like it. xD

I'm going to preface this by saying I don't think this is what you are implying, but there are enough new RPers on this forum that I think this needs to be said:

No one should ever, ever, ever feel that they must RP out something they are not comfortable with OOC simply out of a duty to be "true to their characters" or to "avoid metagaming." Â Ever.

Sini'to Shadar · **09-13-2013, 08:17 PM**

(09-13-2013, 02:34 PM)Swift Nightclaw Wrote: we'd sometimes discuss our characters and the building relationship OOCly as if we were two authors discussing plot ideas for characters in the novel we were co-writing.Â Because that's essentially what we're doing, co-authoring a story/script with large gaps for improv and later taking on the role of the character to act out the story.

That's pretty much similar to what i do with my RP partner. ^^ And i think thats the norm for good RPers.
As said, communication is key, always. Sometimes i dont understand a certain aspect and when i ask my partner, she'll explain it to me. And the otherway around too.

Crimmera Vahn · **09-14-2013, 12:16 AM**

(09-13-2013, 03:21 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote:
(09-13-2013, 02:09 PM)Aysun Wrote:
(09-13-2013, 11:49 AM)Siobhain Wrote: We kind of have to remember-- when it comes to romance, and for many RPers, just romance, some of us want good things to happen to our characters and not have them hurt.

There -are- plenty of people IRL who, once they find out someone isn't single/looking, go about their business. There are probably characters who are this way too. But that's just in terms of romance.
That's fine, that's "IC" IRL. The problem is they find out OOCly, not ICly, that it won't work in the end, and then make their character suddenly not have feelings or what have you. That's metagaming. I don't like it. xD

I'm going to preface this by saying I don't think this is what you are implying, but there are enough new RPers on this forum that I think this needs to be said:

No one should ever, ever, ever feel that they must RP out something they are not comfortable with OOC simply out of a duty to be "true to their characters" or to "avoid metagaming." Â Ever.

LiadansWhisper needs to be quoted here, because no matter your opinion on the matter, you cannot argue with the truth she speaks.

Now, as a humorous interlude, allow me to share where my mind went while reading through this thread.Â

Â â€œHark thee maiden over yonder, for I, Biff the Understudy of the West, have watched you from afar for a fortnight past. Thy eyes glow like beautiful aetheryte, and your buxom bosom like two magitek airships - forever defying gravity; I express unto thee my love which, until now, I have kept afar!Â Do unto me thy honour and I beseech thee to address my proclamation of love!â€

Â â€œPlease sir, I hardly know thee, take thine â€˜proclamationsâ€™ else where, I do believe there is a pay-by-the-hour Miqoâ€™te down the street!â€

â€œAh, you do not take my advances seriously, and how could you?Â For one as beautiful as you must receive many suitors thrusting their desires upon you every hour!Â I shall pine for you, and prove to thee that I am worthy of thine love! As a testimate for how furious my loins doth burn, I shall catch 1000 dusky gobies for thee!â€

â€œPlease, annoying sir, take your love and your gobies and begone!Â Perhaps an elezen dancing atop a fixedÂ interpersonal missiveÂ receptacle to soothe thy burning loins?â€

((OOCly, just want to let you know my character, Elizabeth von Starmole, is not looking for romantic RP nor am I interested in participating in romantic RP storylines.))

((Ah, OK, sorry about that!Â Hope I didnâ€™t make you feel uncomfortable.Â XD))

â€œYour rejections are cruel, fair maiden, and so I shall thrust myself into the hottest sands of the dessert to wander much like Sir David Carradine, hoping that by righting enough wrongs and bringing justice to the outlands, I shall quench this burning love that goeth unrequited.â€

((Um... Did you just metagame your characterâ€™s feelings away?Â I thought he was in love with my character?))

((Oh, well, yeah.Â I am looking for a romantic storyline and I thought you said you werenâ€™t interested, so I didnâ€™t want to bother you any more.))

((Thatâ€™s metagaming.Â Your character is in love with mine, so he needs to pine for her.Â Pine like Chris commanding the Enterprise for the first time!Â Pine like the rainforests of British Columbia!Â What I am seeing isnâ€™t even worthy of the pining done by the $0.99 car air fresheners one finds on that neglected rack shared with the dust covered packets of Yojimboâ€™s Sweet nâ€™ Spicy Crab-flavoured beef jerky at the back of a truck stop on a logging highway in northern Ontario!))

((...Â ... Well, I guess Iâ€™m levelling Fisher.))

***Alothia*** · **09-14-2013, 02:52 AM**

(09-13-2013, 03:21 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: I'm going to preface this by saying I don't think this is what you are implying, but there are enough new RPers on this forum that I think this needs to be said:

No one should ever, ever, ever feel that they must RP out something they are not comfortable with OOC simply out of a duty to be "true to their characters" or to "avoid metagaming." Â Ever.

Â THIS!

Sometimes when people say that it's not true to your character, it DOES come off like that. I'm sorry, if I'm not comfortable with it OOCly, I'm not letting my character do it, regardless of how untrue it feels for them. It's just not happening.

Period.

Clover · **09-14-2013, 06:47 AM**

I understand both opinions, and I think both ways are valid, for both have good reasons. As for my personal preference, I like letting the RP flow naturally, and I like RPing with people who also do this.

The only case I've metagamed my character's feelings was when the other player suddenly decided to ignore his character completely. Luckily, our characters weren't a couple, but he did things that were important to my character and then disappeared after 4 days of playing. I won't stand for my characters to develop any sort of important bond towards a character who isn't actually alive; if the players themselves won't give their character any sort of importance of thought, neither will I.

Other than that, I'm up for experiencing whatever emotional war the RP gives me, if any. It's just a matter of preference and situation, though; if I were in a bad emotional situation irl, I likely wouldn't have the stomach for being hurt in the RP as well (and RP can hurt A LOT, I'm fully aware of this).

Edit: Crimmera> That's a funny example, but I don't think it reflects the kind of RP other people spoke against. In your example, the player is simply making their character realize that they have no chance there, and thus they're taking their leave ICly. The problem some people mention is the player realizing that the other character won't love their character back, and thus imagining that their character had never had any sort of feeling towards the other, even if they did. Both cases as different, as dealing with your feelings ICly is in fact going with the flow.

Crimmera Vahn · **09-14-2013, 07:11 AM**

(09-14-2013, 06:47 AM)Clover Wrote: Edit: Crimmera> That's a funny example, but I don't think it reflects the kind of RP other people spoke against. In your example, the player is simply making their character realize that they have no chance there, and thus they're taking their leave ICly. The problem some people mention is the player realizing that the other character won't love their character back, and thus imagining that their character had never had any sort of feeling towards the other, even if they did. Both cases as different, as dealing with your feelings ICly is in fact going with the flow.

Yeah, and I think people understand it wasn't meant as a serious rebuttal.

Hyrist · **09-14-2013, 10:25 AM**

Reading this thread is somewhat of a relief to me. It makes me feel reassured that the community knows how to handle the situations properly and are able to address issues in the romance and erotic fields of role-playing.

I am no stranger to any of the issues, positive or negative, that are being brought up here.

However, that is primarily because I've been in role-playing online for many years.

A lot, and I mean a great deal of good points have been brought up, but allow me to bring up some bullet points.

- When in doubt, spoil surprises. It is better that your roleplay partner(s) feel comfortable than they feel impressed. Never let a twist leave hanging, because it may come up to that individual via another route and cause OOC drama.

- Remember that your roleplay partners are your friends first OOCLY, and your character's romance interest second ICly. Sometimes, you just need to break character to keep things happy between the players, and that's fine. Sometimes, you need to switch things up, including partners. And that's ok too. What matters is you remain friends out of character with the people you enjoy your time with, don't endanger that for a fantasy.

- Don't be afraid to roleplay loss. Be it losing a pursuit for love, losing a loved one, losing a conflict. It can be great story and great character development, so long as communication is kept up and everyone is in the loop.Â

And most importantly, remember to have fun. Good light hearted humor moments can be great to break up those tense roleplay scenes that are heart-gripping.

As far as my own personal standings go. If the story calls for it, and both players are ok with it, then that's fine. I have no problem with eRP or Romance plots (Romance plots are great for character development and can make for great stories.) So long as what is normally supposed to be reserved for private in real life, is kept to private in rp as well.Â

Personally I prefer my romance stories built up slowly and long lasting. For a time they become a focal point, and then settle into the background of other plots, staying as a supporting element as plots progress.

A lot of people love the chase, the passion, and the excitement, for me, it's the slice of home life that becomes endearing as a roleplay element - To remind ourselves that these characters also have simple pursuits, rather than the thrill/fun seeking we as roleplayers tend to pull them into more often than not.

Lament · **09-14-2013, 11:19 AM**

(09-13-2013, 03:18 AM)Aysun Wrote:
(09-13-2013, 01:53 AM)Lament Wrote:
(09-13-2013, 12:09 AM)Aysun Wrote: I think my only problem with romantic RPers is the moment they learn OOCly that their character is going after someone that they don't have a chance of winning over in the end, they metagame their way away from her.

There is more to RP than romance. A lot more.

Guilty as charged, but I feel like it is excusable when the heartbreak/drama would be more trouble than it's worth. To avoid it, I just generally check with the other player beforehand. If it's a no and I don't feel like it's worth it to have my character deal with a one-sided crush/the rejection that follows, I'll pass on having the romantic interest actually happen IC. And then they can be BFFs or rivals or enemies, and no harm done.

I despise that. Hell, I don't even understand it. Heartbreak and drama are great things IC to encounter and overcome. They can be really great tools for character development. In my opinion, it is never worth metagaming to avoid something that should be played out IC.

I'm never going to put my character above me or other players in terms of importance. They're not me, but they exist through me. If I don't want something to happen to my character because it'd upset me, because it'd be boring for me to play out, because it'd greatly affect the character to the point that I would be uncomfortable playing them and so forth, then I won't let it happen to my character.

OOC comes first, IC second. I'd rather be a decent person than a decent RPer; my feelings and those of my RP partners come first. There's no point in everything making sense IC when OOC people are unhappy about it. I check in advance so that if there will be OOC discomfort, it doesn't ever need to happen IC.

And even if something does happen IC, and then it turns out it's a huge mess and making people upset, I'm in favor of retconning it if everyone is fine with it OOC.

Alothia and LiadansWhisper are absolutely right. Communication is key. You should never have to force yourself (or expect other people to force themselves) to RP something out if you don't want to, no matter how fitting it would be IC. Period.

Sini'to Shadar · **09-14-2013, 12:39 PM**

(09-14-2013, 11:19 AM)Lament Wrote: *snip*

Very well pointed out. I'd put my RP-Partners well being on top, not that of the chars.

Xydane · **09-14-2013, 12:55 PM**

I find this thread interesting and helpful because I plan to add a "romantic chapter" into Xydane's story. What's Final Fantasy without romance? I know that RP Romance is a very touchy subject and I will not bother going into the whole "ERP" topic. If other players want to do it - cool but let's remember that there is a time and place for everything. They pay for this game so I have no right to tell them what they can and cannot do.

I cannot stress enough the times I have heard and seen numerous situations where players cannot draw the line between IC and OOC. I honestly believe that if one was to romantically RP, they should never go pass anything OOC. It's like IRL - you're not gonna find what he/she is thinking and what they are planning for example. You're not going to know and you should just go with it. Mentioning anything OOC will ruin the "illusion" behind the lovers and their story. Again, this is just my opinion and my statement.

I also find that romantic RP is one of many ways to further a player's skill in RP. For example: When and when not to add detail to an action and more use of vocabulary. RPing is pretty much telling a story and writing a book. I know I wouldn't want my book to have short, quick, and choppy sentences.

Overall, I just plan to see where this "chapter" will take Xydane. Perhaps he will stumble upon a girl while simply traveling. Maybe it'll be a chance encounter when he saves her from something or someone. I dunno but it's funny and exciting to see how it'll happen.

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The Romance Class

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