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UltraFennec · **03-14-2014, 05:28 AM**

Is it wrong for SE to want people to engage with the GAME they produce while they engage in the vanity system and RP? Because that's what I see the restrictions aiming to produce, and I don't think it's really a bad idea either.

FreelanceWizard · **03-14-2014, 08:49 AM**

Okay. Discussion is fine, red-hot rage is not. I realize this is a fairly polarizing system with its item level restriction, but we don't need profanity being thrown around or calling people's opinions on the system a "first world problem." Please cool it down or I'm going to have to lock the thread. Sad

No Longer Exists · **03-14-2014, 09:49 AM**

Hello everyone! It's Black Hat time!

*Waves*

Now then, every post (the angry ones included) has their merit and should be respected, naturally. I just wanted to point that out. Every single one needs to be respected, the arguing shouldn't have reached that level. It did because folks forgot the golden rule of community forums. The "Bill and Ted" rule: Be excellent to each other.

As to the topic at hand, I'd like to address certain inconsistencies in a mature capacity. Let's begin.

SE does not require your love or your money. This is an entertainment project and entertainment projects are not built with "time and term" in mind. I say "Time and Term" as measurements of lifespan. Like a film or a television show, it will run its course until it's no longer meeting financial criteria and then it will shut down. Square has a billion pies and two billion fingers in each of them (this is exaggeration intentionally). So really, one subscriber, a thousand subscribers, or five hundred angry RPers won't sway the ultimate direction of the game. In one respect, the Author's Holy Vision is the only absolute here and you, the subscriber, either respect that vision by paying to take part or you quit because you are unhappy with it. It's that simple. If your gym has mold growing on the walls, you can happily complain about it and the owner can happily ignore you. Ultimately, their business may or may not fail. Ultimately, you may sit there and complain, but the owner makes the final say. It is his/her choice to clean the mold up or leave it and risk being shut down. Â That's business. You are not the business, you are the consumer.Â

Yes, they want your money. But to believe that your money entitles you to any sort of sway over the project is, unfortunately, wrong. I'm very sorry to say that, I understand it may hurt feelings. It must be said though. You're wrong. That belief will ultimately impact the community here and abroad negatively. Just as we respect each other's opinions, so too must we respect the people who have built the game we're loving/hating and the people who paid to implement the game for us to love/hate in the first place. I'd like to suggest taking a step back, a deep breath, and perhaps consider detachment a little bit. Out of concern for the health and safety of the community and individual, I say this.Â

To further narrow the scope a bit, the decision to restrict the glamour system is actually a masterstroke. It's a trial system and just as housing had to be constantly retooled to be effective, so too will the glamour system. This is the prototype and it must be tested, what better way to do so than to give it to the community to fiddle with. Yoshi-P and the team do not strike me as megalomaniacal. They've made many concessions already and I think we should give them the benefit of the doubt. They -are- trying and they -do- their best. I expect to see the glamour system tweaked and altered as time passes (perhaps even replaced if it turns out to be too troublesome), but while the devs are giving us the opportunity to be part of the process; it is still their decision to make the final call on. Not the 15 dollar subscriber.

Ultimately, I'm excited about this. Galen's a bit of a fashion nut, so mix and matching appropriately for maximum cool-factor works for me and I'm grateful that the devs implemented the system in the first place.....not angry with them for not doing it differently.

After all, they could have not bothered.

Cheers!

-Black Hat

Kage · **03-14-2014, 09:59 AM**

I think that while they don't -have- to cater to subscribers' demands, if they hear more complaints or criticisms that resonate within the community that that will lead to adjustments. I also think it's just as fair to discuss and point out our own opinions. It's a discussion forum on something we all clearly have an opinion about and it does in fact relate to the topic. It can be done without attacking each other for those opinions. We'll see how it pans out in the future come March 27th.

It's very 'meh' to me except for being able to glamor the Myth BLM Robe. THANK YOU BASED SQUARE ENIX. I mean... I'll probably only get the Myth Robe around that time and will be trying to see if I can just spam T2 forever and ever for the allagan casting tunic but... Dear Lord I am gimping my BLM for now as I just run T1-2 by only having 424 accuracy w/o food.

Other than affixing high level gear that looks fugly *cough*BLMMythRobe*cough* I don't really see the point of it while PVEing which seems to be the main point. While I am pretty 'meh' it's nifty for the small things. I just don't think it's as awesome as I thought before.

Or I can be pleasantly surprised. If the Mogstaff could glow prettily like the Zenith I'd probably be glamor-ing that too if I could.

Naunet · **03-14-2014, 11:56 AM**

(03-14-2014, 09:49 AM)Black Hat Wrote: the decision to restrict the glamour system is actually a masterstroke. It's a trial system and just as housing had to be constantly retooled to be effective, so too will the glamour system. This is the prototype and it must be tested, what better way to do so than to give it to the community to fiddle with.

That's a load of crap, quite honestly. >_> It is not impossible to consider these kinds of things beforeÂ release of a feature, especially when there are a million examples of wardrobe systems out there to learn from. Their armor type and ilvl restrictions are not some genius piece of work the light of which we should bask beneath and thank our gods and goddesses that The Holy SE has deigned us worthy of their attention. They areÂ something that SE deliberately did, but in my opinion it was a god-awful decision. It had nothing to do with being a prototype and everything to do with SE's obsession of restricting their players' activities to an extremely narrow, pre-approved range of options.

The hands-off consumer attitude is how we never get what we want, by the way. It's not smart consumership. If we don't point out what we don't like, SE (and other companies) isn't going to improve, because improving costs man-hours and money.

I really, reallyÂ don't see what's so thematically wrong with wanting to use armor that I've earned whenever I want with a vanity system that, by definition, should allow us to look like whatever we want because that's kind of part of the spirit of vanity.

[edit] A new screenshot seems to suggest that the prisms are going to be DoH-specific. That DRG is using a LTW-crafted prism to glamour his mail armor. This could be extremely annoying. >_<

Ildur · **03-14-2014, 02:05 PM**

Releasing a prototype of a system without telling the community that is a prototype is a pretty mean move from part of the developers, not a master stroke. It confuses people, making them believe that the system is set in stone when it really isn't. That's just a good way to amplify any potential frustration. If it is really a prototype, I sure hope Squeenix will tell us. But I doubt that is the case. The only prototyp-ish thing about it is that it's a pretty dated and 'vanilla' system. It's what I'd expect a developer to release if vanity functions in MMOs were a new thing in the genre.

The only restriction I could understand are Job specific iconic gear (so pretty much all the AF stuff). I wouldn't mind having those off-limits for the prisms. But keeping class restrictions on non-iconic gear that will not affect your stats at all? I just don't follow.

No Longer Exists · **03-14-2014, 03:00 PM**

I imagine the simple solution would be to take what's already built and use it, but that's not really the M.O. (See: Modus Operandi) here. I, for one, enjoy the difference that FF14 has to other MMOs and the glamour system strikes me as another opportunity.

It -is- a masterstroke, because it continues to evolve rather than simply hand out perfection. I understand some of you don't agree and that's acceptable. I've no real stake in it so anger washes right off me. I'm simply enjoying the game for what it is, rather than stressing out over what it isn't.Â Cool

With that in mind, things can change. I acknowledge that voicing opinions is an appropriate catalyst for change in all things, however there's a fine line between effectively asking for change and being disruptive to that same cause. It's in the way it's communicated and that's my first point. All this animosity doesn't make anyone want to accept a point of view or opinion.

Cheers!

-Black Hat

Sounsyy · **03-14-2014, 03:13 PM**

Getting tired of the same couple people turning every discussion into a pissing match.

There are just three(3) Rules of Glamour, and they are:

1. You cannot vanity/glamour gear that is not equip-able by your current class.
SE has stood by this rule since Vanity was first mentioned way back in 2012, and they have reiterated this stance across a couple Live Letters. Not sure why this comes as a shock.

Quote:A: We are currently planning to implement [Vanity] in patch 2.2 (the second major patch). While the feature is ready to go, weâ€™re still discussing how we can establish the feature as content. As far as the freedom goes, as we stated during the previous live letter, black mages will not be able to equip heavy armor, etc.

-[Source]

2. You cannot vanity/glamour gear that does not consume the same number of equipment slots.Â
This is a bit annoying, but I can see why when you look at how the gear system has turned out to be more of a "dye" system instead of the "gear set" system we were all thinking it'd be. Very hard to add a glamour prism to a slot that has nothing equipped. And hard to make a hood appear while not clipping the headpiece you have equipped beneath.Â

3. You cannot vanity/glamour gear that is of a higher Item Level than the gear that is currently equipped.
I think SE was trying to save us all a bit of money on this one. If you're wanting to look as cool as possible while leveling up a new class, you're going to have to keep swapping in new Glamour Prisms to every new piece of gear you obtain.* And at low levels, you're getting new gear every couple of levels. It's just way too impractical.

*Assumes Glamour Prisms are consumable items, which based upon how they've been presented, I think they are. They act just like dyes really. You right click a piece, you add another piece's appearance to it, and presto! a prism is consumed. You can now put your Crimson Robe back in your retainer. There was no prism equip slot anywhere on the Character Window and I didn't see a "Remove Glamour Prism to Inventory" option on that pulldown menu. This way all of your blank Prisms fill up just a single slot in your inventory and you don't have to carry a million Used Prisms in your inventory. Because they can't stack in your inventory if they all have a different look to them.

Why SE decided upon these rules is ultimately, irrelevant. They're there, and they're going to stay a while, if not permanently. You're more than entitled to state your opinion. Most of you have made yours quite clear on the first two pages of the thread. But those of us who support SE's decisions are just as entitled to our opinion as those who disagree.Â

What you are not entitled to, is the right to verbally abuse other members of this community. No matter how "on-topic" you claim to be.Â

Your contribution of $15/month does not aggrandize your opinion. Just like your purchase of a movie ticket does not award you artistic licence of the next Avengers movie. Just like paying your ambulance bill does not mandate the standard of care I provide as a Paramedic. You can whinge all you want, but it's ultimately the company's prerogative.

Lemme clue you in, presenting yourself like a petulant child is not going to help showcase your opinion in a positive light. Synaesthetic, if these forums are any evidence of how you "politely disagree" with someone, I can see why you were banned from the official forums. I can barely stand to read through some of these posts; do you think SE is going to sit down and give them any merit?Â

"Imma sit here and disrespect your company, your producer, your stance on several other issues unrelated to this one, and then compare you to some other companies out there. And if you're still listening to me after that, I'm gonna threaten you with my money and tell you what I think would make your company better." -Forums
"You lost me at 'disrespect,' sorry." -SE

The changes that players have brought to this game have been through polite and appropriately placed commentary upon systems that were not functioning as intended. Tantrum-inciting topics such as "The Grass Is Bad" or the "Armoury System is Outdated" or any topic by Rokien really, have elicited no change in stance on SE's part to date. Go figure.

Naunet · **03-14-2014, 03:25 PM**

(03-14-2014, 03:13 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: The changes that players have brought to this game have been through polite and appropriately placed commentary upon systems that were not functioning as intended.

Man, if this was the case, I'd be able to read chat without giving myself splitting headaches by now. Sad

[edit] I'm getting a little tired of people in this community treating any post that isn't all puppies and rainbows and smilies as disrespect and the product of a raging lunatic. I don't rage at people. I may word things strongly at times, but there is a very distinct difference. I wish people could stop picking on (mis)perceived tone and actually address points brought up in posts instead.

TheLastCandle · **03-14-2014, 03:26 PM**

Well said on all counts, Sounsyy.

Ildur · **03-14-2014, 03:46 PM**

(03-14-2014, 03:00 PM)Black Hat Wrote: It -is- a masterstroke, because it continues to evolve rather than simply hand out perfection. I understand some of you don't agree and that's acceptable. I've no real stake in it so anger washes right off me. I'm simply enjoying the game for what it is, rather than stressing out over what it isn't.Â

Under this logic a restaurant handing you a sandwich filled with poo is also a master stroke because the chef sandwich-making will evolve until he does something actually eateable. Even though there are a dozen other restaurants who hand perfectly eateable sandwiches from the beginning of their sandwich-making.
I cannot accept this logic, but to each one their own, as they say.

If you wonder why I stay in this restaurant, it's because the salads are very, very good.

synaesthetic · **03-14-2014, 09:13 PM**

If anyone wonders why I still play this... "game," it's my free company. (And maybe just a bit the aesthetics.) The content is lacking and uninspired and I'm so goddamned sick to death of Twintania that I'd rather go do the dishes and clean the bathroom than go to raid.

If it weren't for the people I play with, I'd unsubscribe immediately.

The restrictions on this system are beyond stupid. They literally have absolutely no purpose. Arbitrary restriction is NOT a masterwork.

FFS if I wasn't so broke I'd go spend a hundred bucks on RIFT's cash shop just to spite Squee and their idiocy.

Naunet · **03-14-2014, 09:18 PM**

(03-14-2014, 09:13 PM)synaesthetic Wrote: FFS if I wasn't so broke I'd go spend a hundred bucks on RIFT's cash shop just to spite Squee and their idiocy.

I did this towards the end of TERA. XD And do it on occasion when XIV pisses me off. Not a hundred bucks, just a few. It's cathartic! "Take that, stupid developer decisions. LOOK AT ALL THIS MONEY YOU COULD HAVE HAD MUWAHAHAHAHAHA!"

Actually... I think I may go toss $5 at Rift because dang this glamour thing is annoying me. xD

Jana · **03-14-2014, 10:08 PM**

FFXIV only has the sub fee though so SE doesn't actually lose any money when you spend it elsewhere unless you unsub! Tongue

I think some of you guys are taking things a bit too seriously though. As I see it, this is really just a system for endgame players to avoid having to mix-and-match AF2 and Allagan gear. SE has always left a bunch of restrictions in this game so the iLv thing doesn't really surprise me, and I would have actually been shocked if they were to allow people to use gear they couldn't actually equip, like casters in tank plate.

Kage · **03-14-2014, 10:42 PM**

I think that telling people how seriously or not they take something hits the nerves of what makes people tick. Peoples' opinions, no matter how you think of them, are important to them which is why they are voiced. It is not always meant to be but it does tick nerves.

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