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Emberhair · **05-24-2015, 12:17 PM**

In life, there are no truly good people with hearts of purest snow. Furthermore there are no truly evil people with lumps of iron for their heart, sitting in a black ribcage of Dark Lord despair.

But there ARE dicks.Â

Rather than being a noble hero or mr nice guy, i wanted to try and RP a truly unpleasant person. I have been VERY careful about this, and given my RP character a lot of thought. He is arrogant, vain, stubborn but also a coward. However it all comes from a story based place as to why he's like that. He is never a troll or intimidating beyond the realms of RP and he ALWAYS buckles when threatened so the other roleplayer is in the power position in the confrontation. That way, the player behind the character never feels threatened IRL.

Needless to say, my RPs are confrontational when i RP with this particular character. It never EVER spills out into OOC but i find it limits what i can do with RP as obviously, no ones character wants to hang out with mine (and why would they? He's an arse.)Â

LONG STORY SHORT: Has anyone else here ever roleplayed the bad guy, and what issues or successes have you found roleplaying this particular type of character?

Aaron · **05-24-2015, 12:27 PM**

I never rp bad guys because with my take on everything related to rp and even media reception.Â

Unlike most I WANT the bad guy to win and be strong as fuck. If Aaron ever has a PC villian I want the villian to outclass Aaron in every way. Nearly always win the fights they have and be the king of mind games.Â

Makes it all more satisfying for that one day when the hero does beat the villian and is set at ease.

However, most people want to play the hero should any problems arise so they can get praise IC or hey, maybe it's just how their character would genuinely act in said situation. I don't know. Â But just my personal experience, if I were to play a villian, id play one that's a legit threat. Sadly a legit threat villian to most random you try to rp with will be assumed as godmoding.

Im actually missing a ton of holes and such in what im trying to say honestly atm and wish I had time to thoroughly break down what im saying but alas mobile typing is hell.

In a brief nutshell, from my experience people tend to want to be the savior rather than the underdog and if your villians even remotely capable of lolstomping them (I feel strong villians if done right make the best villians no question rather than similarly capable or weaker ones. The hero is supposed to be fighting a uphill battle) most assume"This random is godmoding lol im done.

Emberhair · **05-24-2015, 12:39 PM**

(05-24-2015, 12:27 PM)Aaron Wrote: I never rp bad guys because with my take on everything related to rp and even media reception.Â

Unlike most I WANT the bad guy to win and be strong as fuck. If Aaron ever has a PC villian I want the villian to outclass Aaron in every way. Nearly always win the fights they have and be the king of mind games.Â

Makes it all more satisfying for that one day when the hero does beat the villian and is set at ease.

However, most people want to play the hero should any problems arise so they can get praise IC or hey, maybe it's just how their character would genuinely act in said situation. I don't know. Â But just my personal experience, if I were to play a villian, id play one that's a legit threat. Sadly a legit threat villian to most random you try to rp with will be assumed as godmoding.

Im actually missing a ton of holes and such in what im trying to say honestly atm and wish I had time to thoroughly break down what im saying but alas mobile typing is hell.

In a brief nutshell, from my experience people tend to want to be the savior rather than the underdog and if your villians even remotely capable of lolstomping them (I feel strong villians if done right make the best villians no question rather than similarly capable or weaker ones. The hero is supposed to be fighting a uphill battle) most assume"This random is godmoding lol im done.

This is a fair enough point. If part of a RP FC or linkshell, I think it would probably be best to establish in OOC that the villain is super overpowered. If this is all agreed by the participants, then the villain will not be godmodding. Thats the only viable way i can see that being done.

Thing is, my character is just a pompous spoiled brat. He's not a villain and anyone could beat the s**t out of him. I've had some branching stories playing a bad guy of this nature, but no where near the scope as when i play a good guy. Also playing a bad guy in the quicksand with random players is almost impossible as you just come off as aggressive. Even when i /tell them that my character is bad.Â I do worry/wonder sometimes if other players just think im a troll or a bad player because my character acts this way. In other words, their opinion of my character spilling over into their opinion of the IRL me. Never been confirmed but just a worry i have.

I'll be Aaron's villain if you want, muwhahaha.

Khaine · **05-24-2015, 12:39 PM**

This is a fine line to walk, I too have an antagonistic character, granted she was a former villain that was allowed to live after the story arc that introduced her came to a close. She is extremely arrogant, highly confident and she tells it like it is. She can be a hard character to find or get RP on for these reasons. I find that similar characters and players that like RP with a little chaos enjoy having her around.Â

I personally love playing as her but the lack of good RP makes it quite difficult. If you want to have some fun I'd be more than happy for her to bump into your character.

Aaron · **05-24-2015, 12:43 PM**

(05-24-2015, 12:39 PM)Emberhair Wrote:
(05-24-2015, 12:27 PM)Aaron Wrote: I never rp bad guys because with my take on everything related to rp and even media reception.Â

Unlike most I WANT the bad guy to win and be strong as fuck. If Aaron ever has a PC villian I want the villian to outclass Aaron in every way. Nearly always win the fights they have and be the king of mind games.Â

Makes it all more satisfying for that one day when the hero does beat the villian and is set at ease.

However, most people want to play the hero should any problems arise so they can get praise IC or hey, maybe it's just how their character would genuinely act in said situation. I don't know. Â But just my personal experience, if I were to play a villian, id play one that's a legit threat. Sadly a legit threat villian to most random you try to rp with will be assumed as godmoding.

Im actually missing a ton of holes and such in what im trying to say honestly atm and wish I had time to thoroughly break down what im saying but alas mobile typing is hell.

In a brief nutshell, from my experience people tend to want to be the savior rather than the underdog and if your villians even remotely capable of lolstomping them (I feel strong villians if done right make the best villians no question rather than similarly capable or weaker ones. The hero is supposed to be fighting a uphill battle) most assume"This random is godmoding lol im done.

This is a fair enough point. If part of a RP FC or linkshell, I think it would probably be best to establish in OOC that the villain is super overpowered. If this is all agreed by the participants, then the villain will not be godmodding. Thats the only viable way i can see that being done.

Thing is, my character is just a pompous spoiled brat. He's not a villain and anyone could beat the s**t out of him. I've had some branching stories playing a bad guy of this nature, but no where near the scope as when i play a good guy. Also playing a bad guy in the quicksand with random players is almost impossible as you just come off as aggressive. Even when i /tell them that my character is bad.Â I do worry/wonder sometimes if other players just think im a troll or a bad player because my character acts this way. Therefore, their opinion of my character spilling over into their opinion of the IRL me. Never been confirmed but just a worry i have.

I'll be Aaron's villain if you want, muwhahaha.

Sure lol. Hope hes not too annoying though as Aaron has a habit of just walking away from people who annoy him without even a warning.Â

OOC tho we can be best bros n stuff

Emberhair · **05-24-2015, 12:46 PM**

(05-24-2015, 12:39 PM)Khaine Wrote: This is a fine line to walk, I too have an antagonistic character, granted she was a former villain that was allowed to live after the story arc that introduced her came to a close. She is extremely arrogant, highly confident and she tells it like it is. She can be a hard character to find or get RP on for these reasons. I find that similar characters and players that like RP with a little chaos enjoy having her around.Â

I personally love playing as her but the lack of good RP makes it quite difficult. If you want to have some fun I'd be more than happy for her to bump into your character.

Yo Khaine, thanks for the reply.

Would love it if they met up, haha.Â
Im glad you see my point though. I will say that gang/mob mentality from good players to focus on hating my character makes it more enjoyable for them. Im happy for that as they truly have a good time showing off their strength to a villain. But it leaves us baddies with bad RP unfortunately.

Blue · **05-24-2015, 12:54 PM**

RPing bad guys can give less RP but a certainly higher quality of roleplay, trust me. Your character's development is more prominent, more interesting and more meaningful. Easygoing characters actually have an harder time developing and maturing than us bad guys do, because we start from the bottom, and our growing is more evident than theirs (since they start as friendly, mature, social etc. character, any change towards a higher maturity is less evident).

I've been RPing bad guys since 2006 since I seem to be... pretty good at it, or anyway, better than I am at RPing social butterflies. My main advice to you is to find yourself a close group of people to RP with, and spend a lot of time with them, ESPECIALLY OOC. OOC bonding here is the key, because people who know you OOC know that your character isn't OOC-bleeding bad feelings at them, while someone who has just met you might think otherwise. Knowing you OOC, these people will make efforts to keep around your character, and eventually firm IC bonds will form, without the need to break character on either end.

The second tip is: be creative to be with others. I'll explain it with the example of Kenjii, my character from FFXI. He was a big introvert, rude jerk, with a good side that could only be seen after a while with him (see trop: Jerk with a Heart of Gold). When he initially first met the rest of the group of roleplayers, it was impossible to keep him around. He was annoyed by them and wanted to not deal with them. So what did I do to make it so he'd go out adventuring with them? I had his boss (an NPC under my control) force him to escort those adventurers, threatening to fire him if he wouldn't comply. That's how Kenjii was forced to travel, camp, and live with the others for a while, until he got too involved in the plot and couldn't just walk out of it. Soon enough, I noticed that others' characters came to mine often, even just to talk to him, despite his awful personality, they were actually intrigued by him. And now they are the best of friends (yes, it's crazy, but we still do RP on FFXI).

Third and last advice: Don't be just a wallflower. If people don't come to you, RP NPCs talking to you (this is easier to be done with a small group of close friends; NPCs/secondary characters not visible on screen seem difficult to be accepted by Open World RPers for some reason). Tell your story to those present through small bits and hints, and don't spill out all your tragic past on the go. The beauty of bad guys is their rich past, the STUFF that made us the way we are, and you should consider this as a treasure to deliver in very small doses. Personally I like very lengthy plots, and sometimes it took a year for a certain detail of my characters' past to be revealed. Maybe you don't like long time roleplay though, so adjust as you see fit. Just keep in mind, that once all the beans are spilled, your character loses 70% of its Interest Factor. You have to ensure your character becomes interesting through other means (deeds of the present, goals of the future), before you run out of "past secrets points", so to speak.

(What does that have to do with wall-flowering, you ask?)

Back to the FFXI example: I was not the only "bad guy" in our group of roleplayers. There was another, a chick, that simply stood to the side all the time and waited for people to go to her, only to brush them off quickly with non-sensical quotes that really didn't tell anything about her and only pushed the others away more confused than before about her. I, instead, while keeping my Moronic Jerk attitude IC, did contribute to the plot and actually had my character show some degree of interest in the others as well, making sure each exchange with them to be meaningful, and sometimes forcing my character to go to them, instead of waiting for them to come "click" me (Ex: "Oi. Why are we still here? Did you get us effin' lost?"). In a few weeks, the other "bad guy" RPer was OOCly complaining that Kenjii (my bad guy character) was getting all the attention from the others and "stealing all the girls" (in a non-romantic way, cause my character did not care, but a lot of the female characters seemed much into "changing him", it's a Beauty and the Beast thing I guess?). The reason behind that was that she hadn't really tried to interact with the others, being a wallflower and waiting to be talked to like an NPC, while I did take the initiative.

Your OOC powers are immense, and they are a must when RPing a Bad Guy. So again: OOC bonds with who you RP with, use of NPCs to force your character to interact/stay near others, and initiative (no wall-flowering) are the three keys to successfully RP a bad guy.

Happy Grumpying!

Emberhair · **05-24-2015, 01:04 PM**

(05-24-2015, 12:54 PM)Blue Wrote: RPing bad guys can give less RP but a certainly higher quality of roleplay, trust me. Your character's development is more prominent, more interesting and more meaningful. Easygoing characters actually have an harder time developing and maturing than us bad guys do, because we start from the bottom, and our growing is more evident than theirs (since they start as friendly, mature, social etc. character, any change towards a higher maturity is less evident).

I've been RPing bad guys since 2006 since I seem to be... pretty good at it, or anyway, better than I am at RPing social butterflies. My main advice to you is to find yourself a close group of people to RP with, and spend a lot of time with them, ESPECIALLY OOC. OOC bonding here is the key, because people who know you OOC know that your character isn't OOC-bleeding bad feelings at them, while someone who has just met you might think otherwise. Knowing you OOC, these people will make efforts to keep around your character, and eventually firm IC bonds will form, without the need to break character on either end.

The second tip is: be creative to be with others. I'll explain it with the example of Kenjii, my character from FFXI. He was a big introvert, rude jerk, with a good side that could only be seen after a while with him (see trop: Jerk with a Heart of Gold). When he initially first met the rest of the group of roleplayers, it was impossible to keep him around. He was annoyed by them and wanted to not deal with them. So what did I do to make it so he'd go out adventuring with them? I had his boss (an NPC under my control) force him to escort those adventurers, threatening to fire him if he wouldn't comply. That's how Kenjii was forced to travel, camp, and live with the others for a while, until he got too involved in the plot and couldn't just walk out of it. Soon enough, I noticed that others' characters came to mine often, even just to talk to him, despite his awful personality, they were actually intrigued by him. And now they are the best of friends (yes, it's crazy, but we still do RP on FFXI).

Third and last advice: Don't be just a wallflower. If people don't come to you, RP NPCs talking to you (this is easier to be done with a small group of close friends; NPCs/secondary characters not visible on screen seem difficult to be accepted by Open World RPers for some reason). Tell your story to those present through small bits and hints, and don't spill out all your tragic past on the go. The beauty of bad guys is their rich past, the STUFF that made us the way we are, and you should consider this as a treasure to deliver in very small doses. Personally I like very lengthy plots, and sometimes it took a year for a certain detail of my characters' past to be revealed. Maybe you don't like long time roleplay though, so adjust as you see fit. Just keep in mind, that once all the beans are spilled, your character loses 70% of its Interest Factor. You have to ensure your character becomes interesting through other means (deeds of the present, goals of the future), before you run out of "past secrets points", so to speak.

(What does that have to do with wall-flowering, you ask?)

Back to the FFXI example: I was not the only "bad guy" in our group of roleplayers. There was another, a chick, that simply stood to the side all the time and waited for people to go to her, only to brush them off quickly with non-sensical quotes that really didn't tell anything about her and only pushed the others away more confused than before about her. I, instead, while keeping my Moronic Jerk attitude IC, did contribute to the plot and actually had my character show some degree of interest in the others as well, making sure each exchange with them to be meaningful, and sometimes forcing my character to go to them, instead of waiting for them to come "click" me (Ex: "Oi. Why are we still here? Did you get us effin' lost?"). In a few weeks, the other "bad guy" RPer was OOCly complaining that Kenjii (my bad guy character) was getting all the attention from the others and "stealing all the girls" (in a non-romantic way, cause my character did not care, but a lot of the female characters seemed much into "changing him", it's a Beauty and the Beast thing I guess?). The reason behind that was that she hadn't really tried to interact with the others, being a wallflower and waiting to be talked to like an NPC, while I did take the initiative.

Your OOC powers are immense, and they are a must when RPing a Bad Guy. So again: OOC bonds with who you RP with, use of NPCs to force your character to interact/stay near others, and initiative (no wall-flowering) are the three keys to successfully RP a bad guy.

Happy Grumpying!

Wow thanks for the tips! I completely agree with everything you said. My villain backstory is so much better than my good guy one. And people really do love having an adversary of sorts. Also, not being funny, but that bit about the girls wanting to change you had me in absolute hysterics!!Â

I think everyone here will benefit from what you said. So thank you.Â

TO EVERYONE: Do people mind if i add you in game? Could use some like-minded villains in my friend list.

Blue · **05-24-2015, 01:17 PM**

(05-24-2015, 01:04 PM)Emberhair Wrote: TO EVERYONE: Do people mind if i add you in game? Could use some like-minded villains in my friend list.

Come bad at me, bro!

Khaine · **05-24-2015, 01:20 PM**

Please feel free to add me. This character is Khallendra Kane, but you can reach my on Talon

Emberhair · **05-24-2015, 01:36 PM**

(05-24-2015, 01:20 PM)Khaine Wrote: Please feel free to add me.

Im Emberhair Waltzhearth in game. Are you Talon Kane?

Val · **05-24-2015, 02:18 PM**

(05-24-2015, 12:17 PM)Emberhair Wrote: In life, there are no truly good people with hearts of purest snow. Furthermore there are no truly evil people with lumps of iron for their heart, sitting in a black ribcage of Dark Lord despair.

But there ARE dicks.Â

Rather than being a noble hero or mr nice guy, i wanted to try and RP a truly unpleasant person. I have been VERY careful about this, and given my RP character a lot of thought. He is arrogant, vain, stubborn but also a coward. However it all comes from a story based place as to why he's like that. He is never a troll or intimidating beyond the realms of RP and he ALWAYS buckles when threatened so the other roleplayer is in the power position in the confrontation. That way, the player behind the character never feels threatened IRL.

Needless to say, my RPs are confrontational when i RP with this particular character. It never EVER spills out into OOC but i find it limits what i can do with RP as obviously, no ones character wants to hang out with mine (and why would they? He's an arse.)Â

LONG STORY SHORT: Has anyone else here ever roleplayed the bad guy, and what issues or successes have you found roleplaying this particular type of character?

I've been on both sides of the conflict, both as a good guy staring down the foe and the villain trying to get the upper hand. I think the confrontations should be considered with give and take. The good guys can't always win, yet neither can the bad. I think it's good that you've been very careful about it. I echo the sentiment. My villain, Melfice, is meant to be very powerful. Yet, because I acknowledge that not everyone may like that kind of confrontation, I generally avoid large crowds with him or keep him away/out of conflict unless the person knows what they're getting into. Even still, I allow people to get the upper hand should they find a way to do so. I'm not against it at all!

It does tend to limit your RP unless you manage to make the character social. Melfice, for example, hates interacting with people but he does so if he feels the need and finds it to be worth his time. He is arrogant and condescending to those he finds intellectually inferior to him, which includes most people. Many don't like to interact with him because of his overall personality, but others do because they find it intriguing.

I try to position my villain as an accessory to other people's plots rather than a main character for my own. With this in mind, I think it helps for me to assist others and provide the machinations for whatever plot or goal they have. Melfice doesn't kill or cause harm because he wants to, but because he has to in order to further his own goals, whatever they may be. Sometimes he helps the heroes/good guys, sometimes he's against them, and sometimes he does things because he's curious and wishes to see what kind of reaction it will garnish from someone or because he believes they stand to learn something from the hardship. It's left for some very entertaining RP and I think people that interact with him tend to enjoy him and never quite know what he'll do, which is all the fun for me!

WhiteLycanXII · **05-24-2015, 02:35 PM**

Nins ain't a bad person, but she's done bad things. She's been through some bumps, and it's made her jaded to the point where she's got no qualms about making amoral decisions. She's held a woman in unlawful detainment to provoke the ire of a person she's been wanting to kill. She also plotted the assassination of a woman simply due to her ties to the void.

Yet in spite of all of this, she seems to get off scott-free, for the most part. I can never figure out why.

Telluride · **05-24-2015, 02:45 PM**

Also, remember that not all dicks SEEM dickish.

I have a villain character who hasn't seen public RP yet, but is the antagonist I am developing in a story chain I'm writing over time. In public, he would be charming, generous, and open, the sort of person with whom you might share a glass of cognac and perhaps a wry, yet upscale, story.

He does not come across as 'evil' or even really 'dickish', unless... unless... the subjects of his obsessions came up. Even then, he would retain his calm, for of course, his views are correct and reasonable, and what kind of naive fool are you to not see that?

Think of Ozymandias / Adrian Veidt from the Watchmen. Never once did he act truly dickish. Arrogant? Yes. Capable of murder and violence and intrigue? Hell, yes. But not for their own sake. You simply aren't capable of seeing the grand vision he has, even though it may crack the world open.

Villains don't have to act like an ass. The most chilling ones are the ones who, as Hamlet observed, can "Smile, and smile and be...a....villain!"

Warren Castille · **05-24-2015, 02:51 PM**

Curious language here. Are we talking villains, or "bad" people? Heroes/Villains are a clear cast, but being a dick isn't exclusive to one side or the other. You can be a massive jerk and still be a hero on the front lines of war for your Grand Company. Similarly, as Telluride pointed out, you can be a charming schmoozing schemer everyone adores who plans to ruin the world.

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Roleplaying the bad guy

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes