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The Black Healer · **07-23-2016, 12:01 AM**

Hello fellow rp-ers! I would like to get your thoughts and ideas and ANY lore you loremasters have out there!

I know the game states that there isn't a lot known about the Twelve and other gods but there are clearly places of worship to them around Eorzea. Even places like in Ishgard where there is a lectern...clearly a place where speeches and possibly sermons are given. Or perhaps a lot of funerals due to the war. That could be a possibility too.

What I am interested in is making a functional congregation of people who worship their different gods....but it's done in a communal setting. We would have the higher ranks that would get together and discuss what the talks should be about before scheduled sermons...there could be groups that go out on missions to assist willing rp-ers in healing or battle using their faith as their power. (ie macros depending on who they serve). We would be here to spread peace and the word of gods/goddess' they serve. The idea of specialty branches could be there too. As in hunting specific types of beings that would cause harm to the earth or those that prey upon the living.Â

As far as ceremonies, there could be either weekly or bi-weekly sermons to help educate and teach others about the gods and use each of their abilities as a life lesson. Perhaps hymns can be created and "sung", chants and the like. We could write passages, small works of literature, poetry (of course by the higher ranks who can read and write) to be read and shared among others. I could see this being very lucrative creatively and I would love to get feedback and ideas on it. Do ask questions if you have them!

Valence · **07-23-2016, 05:20 AM**

It's an interesting idea, but keep in mind that while most eorzeans believe in the Twelve, most of them and especially their own cultures actually revere a single or two gods they dedicate their lives to.Â

For example, Nald and Thal for Ul'dans, Nophica for Gridanians, Lymlaen for lominsans, Azeyma for Seekers of the Sun, Menphina for Keepers of the Moon, Rhalgr for Ala-mighans, Thaliak for Sharlayans, Halone the Fury for Ishgardians, etc. And then also for jobs and guilds, like Nymeia for the weavers and Nophica for the botanists, Oschon for adventurers, among others. Probably Byregot for a lot of smithing professions too.

It would ideally mean that you are trying something rather ambitious and universalist here. Which is interesting in its own right.

You might find a bit more detailed infoÂ there

The Black Healer · **07-23-2016, 11:14 AM**

(07-23-2016, 05:20 AM)Valence Wrote: It's an interesting idea, but keep in mind that while most eorzeans believe in the Twelve, most of them and especially their own cultures actually revere a single or two gods they dedicate their lives to.

It would ideally mean that you are trying something rather ambitious and universalist here. Which is interesting in its own right.

You might find a bit more detailed infoÂ there

Indeed! It is ambitious...and it may be a bit more difficult to be received as a result for the reasons you have stated. But with the way that things in Uldah, Ishgard and a few other places are changing and opening up (tentatively of course) it could leave room for something like this to pop up. Something that asks to bring more people together and be united for a stronger, peaceful Eorzea.

Also, thank you very much for the lore reference and info! This is exactly the sort of thing I'm looking for.

Kaniko Niko · **07-23-2016, 12:16 PM**

Juuuuust to clarify: Nald and Thal are the same beingâ€”Nald'thal. He also uses singular pronouns despite His title being a pluralâ€”The Traders.

Melkire · **07-23-2016, 12:26 PM**

(07-23-2016, 12:16 PM)Kaniko Niko Wrote: Juuuuust to clarify: Nald and Thal are the same beingâ€”Nald'thal. He also uses singular pronouns despite His title being a pluralâ€”The Traders.

Nald'thal, as written, is considered the "single manifestation of deific twins". When referring to Nald'thal, the Traders, singular pronouns are used because the two units are taken as a whole.

But then we also have Nald and Thal in use regularly by Eorzean denizens to refer to the twins individually. Nald is associated with the mercantile and commercial aspects of the deity, whereas Thal is more commonly associated with death and the underworld. They each have their own statues dedicated to them, even, in Southern Thanalan and Eastern Thanalan, respectively: Nald's Reflection and Thal's Respite. The first depicts Nald holding an urn of some kind, and the second depicts Thal with a rather wicked curved blade (whether it's a sword or a stylized dagger is unclear).

Kilieit · **07-23-2016, 12:46 PM**

I don't really have much useful to add, but if something like this goes ahead I think it'd be interesting for Aghurlal to attend. He's not Eorzean and doesn't know very much about the Twelve, but he's curious to know more, if not necessarily to commit.

Translating religious texts into Doman is something that might make sense for an organisation like this to undertake, since there's obviously quite a few immigrants from Othard around at the moment!

I'd also point you towards looking into the organisations of the Halonic Orthodox Church, which has a very heavy hand in Ishgard's government at the time we're introduced to them; and the Order of Nald'thal, who play a moderately large role in Ul'dah's societal structure. There's also the stuff King Theodoric did to Ala Mhigo - forcing them to worship Nymeia, the Spinner instead of Rhalgr, the Destroyer because Rhalgr is allegedly subservient to Nymeia.

Other than that... A few times NPCs in the ARM/BSM quest say you must have been blessed by Byregot; the sayings "Spinner's pull be kind" (good luck) and "The Spinner gives and the Wanderer takes away"; flavour texts from items like the Navigator's Daggers/Navigator's Brand...

And why is there so much Oschon iconography near Nym, anyway? Didn't figure that one out myself, yet.

I'm afraid I don't have much more to point you towards other than vague names and concepts, but I guess it's stuff to look into!

The Black Healer · **07-23-2016, 01:30 PM**

(07-23-2016, 12:46 PM)Kilieit Wrote: Translating religious texts into Doman is something that might make sense for an organisation like this to undertake, since there's obviously quite a few immigrants from Othard around at the moment!

I'd also point you towards looking into the organisations of the Halonic Orthodox Church, which has a very heavy hand in Ishgard's government at the time we're introduced to them; and the Order of Nald'thal, who play a moderately large role in Ul'dah's societal structure. There's also the stuff King Theodoric did to Ala Mhigo - forcing them to worship Nymeia, the Spinner instead of Rhalgr, the Destroyer because Rhalgr is allegedly subservient to Nymeia.

Ah! Now translating texts into Doman...very good suggestion! I'm sure there would be domans that wouldn't mind helping Â that could join the church. They do seem to worship outside of the twelve unless I'm mistaken? Not that we would turn them away because universalism is exactly what we would be going for. But I do wish there was more information on who they worshiped but...I would at least guess and say there was ancestor worship of some form since it's based off of Japanese culture. Perhaps even a form of Shinto or Buddhism.

Valence · **07-23-2016, 01:53 PM**

The Au'ri actually worship 2 main divinities they believe to be directly descended from. The xaela worship the Dusk Mother and the raen worship the Dawn Father.

The Black Healer · **07-23-2016, 02:08 PM**

(07-23-2016, 01:53 PM)Valence Wrote: The Au'ri actually worship 2 main divinities they believe to be directly descended from. The xaela worship the Dusk Mother and the raen worship the Dawn Father.

Whoop! Right, you're very correct! Still, there does seem to be some flavor within that discussed among a few others of the community. Someone even wondered is Shiva was considered the Dusk Mother but I don't know what we have to prove a speculation like that...personally. But it's an interesting thought.Â

As far as Au Ra beliefs, there are tasty tidbits here for thought that I found for review/thought:

Â http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=14642

Virella · **07-23-2016, 02:38 PM**

(07-23-2016, 12:46 PM)Kilieit Wrote: There's also the stuff King Theodoric did to Ala Mhigo - forcing them to worship Nymeia, the Spinner instead of Rhalgr, the Destroyer because Rhalgr is allegedly subservient to Nymeia.

/ Slams fist onto table

Nymeia is the wife to Rhalgr according to Ala Mhigans.

I guess... things vary a bit here and there according to which culture of Eorzea you ask?

Anyhow! On topic, giving my input for the Rhalgr nonsense of the Twelve.

If the 60 MNK quest is anything to go of, the Fist worship Rhaglr with ... I will just quote the NPC

Hrahatia
Hmph, cowards like you bring shame upon our order. Plainly, it is you who needs to be reminded of our true nature.
Hrahatia
The arduous training to hone mind and body, the blood we spill and shedâ”€all of it is for no other purpose but to honor the Destroyer.
Hrahatia
We pay Him great tribute by dueling to the death. And in return, He grants us great power: the power of all fourteen chakra.

http://xivdb.com/quest/67567/Appetite+For+Destruction

Mind you this is the 'old way' of Rhalgr praising, the new one of friendship is magic being very new. It is probably safe to say Ala Mhigans and Rhalgr worshippers still live with such nonsense.

"All new beginnings requires the total destruction. The destruction is the beginning."Â - is another thing people who praise Rhalgr seem to adhere to.

Whereas I could see ceremonies happening to a degree, I think you can do super interesting stuff with Rhalgr worshipping.

Kilieit · **07-23-2016, 02:41 PM**

Don't forget about Azim and Nhama, worshipped by some specific Xaela tribes - Azim being a sun god and Nhama being a moon god. Confirmed by the devs to be separate deities from Azeyma and Nymeia/Menphina, despite the similarity in name/dominion.

I think the Raen who are integrated with Doman society probably worship kami? I have a vague recollection of that being mentioned in the NIN storyline as being a Thing but i didn't get very far/pay very much attention, whoops. Maybe someone who did can lend a word.

Either way, definitely no worship of the Twelve from over there.

The Black Healer · **07-23-2016, 03:17 PM**

(07-23-2016, 02:38 PM)Virella Wrote: If the 60 MNK quest is anything to go of, the Fist worship Rhaglr with ... I will just quote the NPC

Hrahatia
Hmph, cowards like you bring shame upon our order. Plainly, it is you who needs to be reminded of our true nature.
Hrahatia
The arduous training to hone mind and body, the blood we spill and shedâ”€all of it is for no other purpose but to honor the Destroyer.
Hrahatia
We pay Him great tribute by dueling to the death. And in return, He grants us great power: the power of all fourteen chakra.

http://xivdb.com/quest/67567/Appetite+For+Destruction

Mind you this is the 'old way' of Rhalgr praising, the new one of friendship is magic being very new. It is probably safe to say Ala Mhigans and Rhalgr worshippers still live with such nonsense.

"All new beginnings requires the total destruction. The destruction is the beginning."Â - is another thing people who praise Rhalgr seem to adhere to.

Whereas I could see ceremonies happening to a degree, I think you can do super interesting stuff with Rhalgr worshipping.

Very telling! This give me ideas on possible sermons and talks. I would love to have a discussion with a traditional Rhalgr worshiper but likely neo-Rhalgrs would feel more comfortable with the universal church. Although destruction is recognized to be a part of life and at some points necessary to protect!

Quote:Kilieit
____________________________________________________________________________
Don't forget about Azim and Nhama, worshipped by some specific Xaela tribes - Azim being a sun god and Nhama being a moon god. Confirmed by the devs to be separate deities from Azeyma and Nymeia/Menphina, despite the similarity in name/dominion.

Ah, now I didn't know about that. Where did you get that info if you don't mind me asking?

Kilieit · **07-23-2016, 03:24 PM**

I don't remember which interview the dev comments were from, but the god names are from the Race Naming Conventions thread:

Quote:The Kagon are a nocturnal desert tribe who worship Nhama, goddess of the moon and mortal enemy of Azim, goddess of the sun. Instructed by their goddess that to step into the sun is to succumb to the evil of Azim, they spend the daylight hours in their tents, only emerging to hunt and migrate at night. The result is an uncharacteristically pale skin for a group of people living in an almost eternally fair-weather locale.

Quote:All members of the Oronir tribe believe themselves to be direct descendants of Azim, the tribe's goddess of the sun.

Virella · **07-23-2016, 03:39 PM**

(07-23-2016, 03:17 PM)The Black Healer Wrote: Very telling! This give me ideas on possible sermons and talks. I would love to have a discussion with a traditional Rhalgr worshiper but likely neo-Rhalgrs would feel more comfortable with the universal church. Although destruction is recognized to be a part of life and at some points necessary to protect!

o7 Hit me up ingame, it is me who you are looking for (for traditional Rhalgr worshipping. On Avelyn Firestone that is).

Destruction and beginning cycles are very Eorzean actually, seeming they reset their calender everytime it happens Big Grin

But yeah hit me up ingame o7 I be AFK for a little while longer while taking care of some real life stuff Smile

The Black Healer · **07-23-2016, 03:56 PM**

(07-23-2016, 03:24 PM)Kilieit Wrote: I don't remember which interview the dev comments were from, but the god names are from the Race Naming Conventions thread:

Quote:The Kagon are a nocturnal desert tribe who worship Nhama, goddess of the moon and mortal enemy of Azim, goddess of the sun. Instructed by their goddess that to step into the sun is to succumb to the evil of Azim, they spend the daylight hours in their tents, only emerging to hunt and migrate at night. The result is an uncharacteristically pale skin for a group of people living in an almost eternally fair-weather locale.

Quote:All members of the Oronir tribe believe themselves to be direct descendants of Azim, the tribe's goddess of the sun.

Ahh, I see! Please do post anything else you've noticed...this certainly expands the view! I'll have to ask others about this too. There are tribes that need to be known!

Quote:o7 Hit me up ingame, it is me who you are looking for (for traditional Rhalgr worshipping. On Avelyn Firestone that is).

Excellent! I'll be contacting you on Sizha'to as he will be the one creating this. He has a church room set up in our FC house to be used when things take off. I'll need more people to talk to like you. Smile

I'm eating at the moment but I'll add your character!

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[Discussion] Balmung Rp: Worshiping the Twelve

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