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Amiko · **06-20-2017, 10:28 PM**

I know there are already RP FCs and for Brass Blades and what not, but would something be possible for a Sekiseigumi?

I like the idea of doing patrols and like likes. Interacting with other RPers, having a system set up where people can come report crimes, work with criminal FCs to make events or stuff like that.

Might just be me, but I'd like something like that.

On top of that what kinda race/character restrictions would there be? Obviously it'd probably be Samurai only but would you allow outsiders to join, be trained and work with them? I dunno if you'd have to open it up to more races just for the sake of inclusion in the RP community or not.

Again, I like this idea and would probably jump at the opportunity to do it. What do you guys think?

Warren Castille · **06-20-2017, 10:35 PM**

I'm hoping we get to see more of these guys as things progress through the 4.x series. I think the biggest challenge they'd have when trying to RP is that, since they're basically Kugane cops, it's extremely hard to justify them being anywhere else (and we don't know how much of an RP hub Kugane might be). There's nothing stopping them from traveling to Eorzea proper, but that's basically playing an out-of-jurisdiction cop.

There's a lot of ground to cover here, I'm kind of amped to see what the community comes up with.

Amiko · **06-20-2017, 10:40 PM**

(06-20-2017, 10:35 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: I'm hoping we get to see more of these guys as things progress through the 4.x series. I think the biggest challenge they'd have when trying to RP is that, since they're basically Kugane cops, it's extremely hard to justify them being anywhere else (and we don't know how much of an RP hub Kugane might be). There's nothing stopping them from traveling to Eorzea proper, but that's basically playing an out-of-jurisdiction cop.

There's a lot of ground to cover here, I'm kind of amped to see what the community comes up with.

Yeah, going outside of Kugane would be an issue. Around Doma would be easy but Eorzea is another matter.

I wont lie though, if Kugane becomes a bit of a hub (which I wish it would be), I'd happily stroll around in uniform just patrolling. I find relaxing RP like that very fun, and lets me meet new people.

Verad · **06-20-2017, 10:40 PM**

The problems with city guard role play like the Sekiseigumi are well documented and probably don't need to be repeated here without prompting. But bear them in mind when creating an FC built around this concept.

Warren Castille · **06-20-2017, 10:43 PM**

(06-20-2017, 10:40 PM)Amiko Wrote: Yeah, going outside of Kugane would be an issue. Around Doma would be easy but Eorzea is another matter.

I wont lie though, if Kugane becomes a bit of a hub (which I wish it would be), I'd happily stroll around in uniform just patrolling. I find relaxing RP like that very fun, and lets me meet new people.

I'm not done the entire story, but is there any example of them being in Doma proper? Kugane is ostensibly not a part of the nation due to their Swiss-like policy. I was under the impression that they only had jurisdiction and relevance in Kugane (but it's entirely likely I'm wrong).

(06-20-2017, 10:40 PM)Verad Wrote: The problems with city guard role play like the Sekiseigumi are well documented and probably don't need to be repeated here without prompting. But bear them in mind when creating an FC built around this concept.

This. Being beholden to a single city is extremely limiting. I'm also slightly concerned that, if Kugane becomes a PVE hub as well as a PVP hub, it'll be excessively trolled. While a lot of people are cool with just shrugging that off, there's probably as many who'll just quit rather than get made fun of.

Amiko · **06-20-2017, 10:47 PM**

(06-20-2017, 10:43 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: I'm not done the entire story, but is there any example of them being in Doma proper? Kugane is ostensibly not a part of the nation due to their Swiss-like policy. I was under the impression that they only had jurisdiction and relevance in Kugane (but it's entirely likely I'm wrong).

There's instances in the Samurai quest line where certain members undertake missions elsewhere, but that's really all there is that I've seen so far.

It's safe to assume that should a mission require it, they can head in, but their main focus would of course lay on Kugane.

Kallera · **06-20-2017, 10:51 PM**

Yeah, there is also the matter of the sekisegumi having the right to kill those who resist arrest. A threat that likely will be stuck to npcs only.

Amiko · **06-20-2017, 10:57 PM**

(06-20-2017, 10:51 PM)Kallera Wrote: Yeah, there is also the matter of the sekisegumi having the right to kill those who resist arrest. Â A threat that likely will be stuck to npcs only.

This would definitely be a thing that would be avoided. It's not unheard of for the Sekiseigumi - or even the Shinsengumi - to side step that rule too.

Obviously stuff like arrests would be worked out OOC while also being done IC. Ther'd probably end up being a system to it.

***Nero*** · **06-20-2017, 11:29 PM**

There are limited instances of Sekiseigumi leaving the premises of Kugane to hunt down insurgents, but the cases tend to be special: said insurgents either plan on acting within Kugane or were based from Kugane.

Sekiseigumi wouldn't be chasing criminals across the Ruby Sea or anything, especially not with the Confederacy. Hence their jurisdiction would be limited to just Kugane and the immediate area.

Rookie Judge · **06-21-2017, 01:50 AM**

(06-20-2017, 10:28 PM)Amiko Wrote: I know there are already RP FCs and for Brass Blades and what not, but would something be possible for a Sekiseigumi?

I like the idea of doing patrols and like likes. Interacting with other RPers, having a system set up where people can come report crimes, work with criminal FCs to make events or stuff like that.

Might just be me, but I'd like something like that.

On top of that what kinda race/character restrictions would there be? Obviously it'd probably be Samurai only but would you allow outsiders to join, be trained and work with them? I dunno if you'd have to open it up to more races just for the sake of inclusion in the RP community or not.

Again, I like this idea and would probably jump at the opportunity to do it. What do you guys think?

Disclaimer: Personal bias/interpretations sprinkled throughout. Also bear in mind that I've yet to complete the 60-70 SAM story or the complete SB MSQ. Some unmarked spoilers may be ahead so that the post may flow better.

It would be possible, yes. Likely greatly difficult, but possible. I'd start with an OOC LS before taking any other such steps towards centralisation (I don't know if linkshells are used by Hingan forces, hence why I specify an OOC LS).

As for race/character restrictions, based on the NPCs, it'd be majority male Midlanders and "Hellsguard" (in quotes as the clan name Hellsguard is an Eorzea-specific thing only, they just use the same models) Roegadyn Samurai with some Lancers bearing the Iwa-toshi weapon available from Ishgard. While there appear to be female Midlanders serving as well, it appears, from publicly accessible NPCs, that females within the Sekiseigumi are a minority, at least as far as I know, since I've yet to complete the 60-70 questline (Edit: Unless there's a mass of female Sekiseigumi in the 70 SAM quest, Makoto is quite literally the only female Sekiseigumi we see so far in 4.0. Whether this is due to an in-universe reason or because SE decided that like... two or three male models was enough resources devoted to relatively irrelevant NPCs, I cannot say. Edit: There wasn't a mass of female Sekiseigumi. Honestly I think SE just wanted to save on resources and used the same three models.). Which makes sense, in a way, as I don't recall the Tokugawa era or Japanese society in general at the time being particularly egalitarian towards women (I'm not a history or sociology buff, so take that with a grain of salt). There may be Archers as well, as historically archery's also been one of the samurais' main things, but I haven't seen any, though it's likely that they exist or that they've upgraded to gunpowder weapons. I do not know if there are Au Ra serving. Given that the available NPCs are all Midlanders or "Hellsguard", I'm disinclined to say that there are Au Ra Sekiseigumi, but as I've again yet to complete the 60-70 SAM questline, I cannot say for certain.

In regards to opening the Sekiseigumi role to foreigners... I'd have to vehemently disagree on any non Hingashi/Kugane native peoples joining (Edit: it's mentioned that the Sekiseigumi is made up of commoners. None are from samurai stock. Edit: Kagetsu is from a samurai family.). Can't exactly stop people from doing it, but there's no evidence that I've seen to suggest such a thing occurring, and unless directly stated by a NPC that they accept foreigners (extremely unlikely and I'd be disappointed with the lore creators if they did), anything involving the WoL must be taken with mountains of salt due to their main character status. This is something of a tangent, but I've found that Westerners don't often seem to comprehend just how xenophobic the Japanese, and therefore by extension the Hingans due to their basis on Tokugawa era Japan, can be and are. While it's true that they may be welcoming of trade and such, bear in mind that that trade is restricted to one city and that foreigners who break Hingan law face extremely dire consequences (which may extend to the locals as well, I do not know for certain).

I foresee Sekiseigumi roleplay being a rather difficult beast to handle, personally. It's explicitedly stated that summary execution is the go-to punishment for those who break the law barring physical altercations between foreigners. A certain Doman NPC likely only got out of it due to a combination of his profession and plot armor. There's also permanent exile, which is stated to be an uncommon method of dealing with lawbreakers. Arrest is a thing, but it's not stated what happens after and still likely ends in the death or exile of the foreign arrestee (Edit: having progressed a bit further in the 60-70 SAM since writing this, I must say that the likelihood of this is dependent on the intervention of a corrupt official given that the bakufu is apparently ripe for such. Edit: A sidequest available immediately prior to the Scions' return to Eorzea shows that the Sekiseigumi do arrest and jail criminals, though it's unknown how long the sentence would be or if it's just something used to hold criminals prior to their execution.). That said, Kugane is a trade city, like Ul'dah. Behind the scenes bribery of relevant officials for release or exoneration is a thing shown, though it's a somewhat involved process. On the spot bribery in the public eye is likely to be refused outright and may even result in the death of the person offering, due to perceived insults against personal and organisational honour. So in the face of such severe consequences...

I personally expect that most RPers will outright ignore the law barring violence in Kugane (Edit: The same sidequest mentioned in an edit in the paragraph above says that foreigners have little regard for Kugane's laws, to my disgruntlement.). Sekiseigumi RPers will also likely be laughed at, abused, or blatantly ignored, similar to how things generally play out with Brass Blade RPers. Same with the consequences. Only thing you can really do is ignore the ones who godmod their way out of consequences and blacklist the people who do nothing but heap abuse on you. People are quick to rag on law enforcement characters because OOCly there's nothing that we can do to their character without them reversing the argument and accusing us of godmodding, so they grow bold because there's no perceived threat of consequences. Hence the high burnout rate of LE RPers, since more often than not, we have a negligible effect on a community that seems to be flooded with a "fuck the police/law" attitude.

All that being said, I've prepared a personal armored up Sekiseigumi glamour for my character, seeing as how there aren't any gear sets as of yet that I've seen that look anything like the Sekiseigumi stuff (something I sincerely hope will be rectified in the future) and will begin RP as a Sekiseigumi as soon as I hit the requisite level as SAM. (To be clear, I'm going to be using my character to portray two different characters dependent on which region I'm in for the sake of convenience and to save money i.e. an Eorzea based character and a Far Eastern one.)

Warren Castille Wrote:
(06-20-2017, 10:40 PM)Amiko Wrote: Yeah, going outside of Kugane would be an issue. Around Doma would be easy but Eorzea is another matter.

I wont lie though, if Kugane becomes a bit of a hub (which I wish it would be), I'd happily stroll around in uniform just patrolling. I find relaxing RP like that very fun, and lets me meet new people.

I'm not done the entire story, but is there any example of them being in Doma proper? Kugane is ostensibly not a part of the nation due to their Swiss-like policy. I was under the impression that they only had jurisdiction and relevance in Kugane (but it's entirely likely I'm wrong).

To my understanding, Kugane is a part of the island nation of Hingashi. The only relation to Doma is in that they are neighbors. The Sekiseigumi most likely would only have jurisdiction in Kugane itself, the immediate outlying area, and matters directly related to the port city, and further outlying Hingan areas would fall under the control of bakufu (governmental) forces, though there are, of course, likely exceptions to the rule.

Valence · **06-21-2017, 05:28 AM**

(06-20-2017, 10:28 PM)Amiko Wrote: I know there are already RP FCs and for Brass Blades and what not, but would something be possible for a Sekiseigumi?

I like the idea of doing patrols and like likes. Interacting with other RPers, having a system set up where people can come report crimes, work with criminal FCs to make events or stuff like that.

Might just be me, but I'd like something like that.

On top of that what kinda race/character restrictions would there be? Obviously it'd probably be Samurai only but would you allow outsiders to join, be trained and work with them? I dunno if you'd have to open it up to more races just for the sake of inclusion in the RP community or not.

Again, I like this idea and would probably jump at the opportunity to do it. What do you guys think?

The Far East seems to be composed of the usual races. Hyur (midlander) and Raen is a given, a few lalafells (with eastern names) and a lot of roegadyn (also with eastern names) especially can be seen ingame.

I have yet to see miqo'te (maybe there are some!), but the simple fact that Fernehalves hinted at them being there too, I think race isn't really a problem judging by what I see right now.

Of course, you can never know when a contradictory lore snippet can come and tell you "actually, those samurai of Hingashi police are all midlanders" or whatever. It's sure that the game seems to mostly portray midlanders so far.

In any case, good luck if you try that road for roleplay. Playing the upper caste having the right of life and death (like the Edo era Samurai), also in a role of city police, is probably tricky.

Amiko · **06-21-2017, 06:51 AM**

Yeah, I guess it'd probably be really hard to do, which I kinda knew from the start.

The main issue seems to me where you draw the line at lore friendly vs player friendly. Maybe someone might do something like it one day.

Ah, well. It was a nice dream if nothing else!

Valence · **06-24-2017, 04:12 AM**

And... I just stumbled on a "Duskwight Debutante" in a quest in Kugane so... I guess you have your elezens too, unless this one is just a foreigner drapping into fine local kimonos.

She was not Seikisegumi though.

Melkire · **06-24-2017, 06:43 AM**

(06-20-2017, 10:43 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: I'm not done the entire story, but is there any example of them being in Doma proper? Kugane is ostensibly not a part of the nation due to their Swiss-like policy. I was under the impression that they only had jurisdiction and relevance in Kugane (but it's entirely likely I'm wrong).

To address this, even though I've not finished 4.0 MSQ either: Doma and Hingashi are two different nations altogether. The port city of Kugane belongs to the latter. Ergo it stands to reason that no, they'd not have that jurisdiction... although extradition wouldn't be off the table.

Again, not finished with the story but unless there are some major fundamental changes in the latter half of 4.0 MSQ, I'd not expect Sekiseigumi to venture out of Hingashi in an official capacity. Not often, anyway. It'd be like a Brass Blade trying to exert their authority in, say, Limsa or Gridania. You might see them, though, in a similar capacity to the Brass Blades in Kugane: as guards, bodyguards, escorts, etc., for official representatives.

Gegenji · **06-24-2017, 09:21 AM**

(06-21-2017, 01:50 AM)Rookie Judge Wrote: While there appear to be female Midlanders serving as well, it appears, from publicly accessible NPCs, that females within the Sekiseigumi are a minority, at least as far as I know, since I've yet to complete the 60-70 questline. Which makes sense, in a way, as I don't recall the Tokugawa era or Japanese society in general at the time being particularly egalitarian towards women (I'm not a history or sociology buff, so take that with a grain of salt).

Just to help a bit with this bit here, your quest-giver in the 60-70 SAM quests is a female member of the Sekiseigumi. She doesn't seem to get treated any differently due to her gender from what I've seen so far (SAM 66 at this point), so I don't know how much of a minority women are in the group or how much egalitarianism is happening.

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Potential for Sekiseigumi RP?

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes