Alright, ladies and gents, here's a fun topic.
I recently did a bit of research into this particular topic to establish conclusively (short of getting an official answer from Koji or Square Enix) whether or not "Hingan" or "Doman" exist as a separate language, and whether speaking Hingan or Doman could be considered lore-friendly. For some reason, this seems to be a contested topic, so hopefully these findings will shed a bit of much-needed light. My intention here isn't to spark debate as much as it is to present what available evidence (or lack thereof) exists and open it to interpretation.
TL;DR: The concept of “Hingan†and “Doman†languages most likely exists only as a localisation tool, primarily to explain Japanese terms to non-Japanese speakers and to thinly justify why there are Japanese words in the non-Japanese versions of FFXIV. There is no mention made of a different alphabet, grammar, system of writing, or sentence structure; only rudimentary vocabulary swaps. It’s highly unlikely that Square Enix intended or intends for “Hingan†or “Doman†to be a full-fledged language existing in the FFXIV universe.
TL;DR 2: Do whatever you want as long as you're not hurting anyone or forcing them to do something against their will. It's just internet pretend fun-times, who cares.
Firstly, there exist numerous references in-game to the existence of a “Hingan tongue†or “Doman tongueâ€, in the English version of the game only.
Et cetera. There a few other inklings, but these are a few of the most prominent examples, and by themselves, hints pretty clearly at "Doman" and "Hingan" existing as distinct, separate languages with completely different alphabets.
That said, there are conclusively no direct references to a modern Hingan or Doman language in the Japanese, French, or German versions of the dialogue. There are, at most, one or two vague references.
In the instances where Japanese words are translated in other versions, translation is either glossed over or, in one particular case in the French version, is equated to a phrase in “en langue commune†(the common languageâ€).
In other instances (specifically the French and German versions), reference is made to the “ancient language†i.e. Ancient Hingan, same as the English version.
In the Japanese and German versions, there are no references made to any differing languages. There are no translations or references to translations in the Japanese version at all, unless it’s in reference to a fictional, dead language (such as the Nymian language).
In the German version specifically, translations of Japanese words are explained with no reference to Hingan or Doman. At best, it's explained in the manner of "this is what people call this thing, and it means this".
There is exactly one instance in the French version where the following phrase is uttered by a Hingan:
Some might assert that Hingan/Doman exists because of names. For example, “Yatsurugi no Yukiâ€, “Ame no Murakamo†(Susano’s sword), whatever the name of Zenos’ sword is which I can’t remember off the top of my head, etc. “no†is a Japanese possessive particle (that can function as a preposition or modifier), therefore Japanese exists, right?
The problem with that is the implications.
Does French exist on Hydaelyn because Elezen names use “de†(such as “Haurchefant de Fortempsâ€), and “de†is a French preposition denoting “ofâ€?
Does German exist on Hydaelyn because an NPC is named “Baron von Quiveron III Esquire†exists in-game, and “von†is a German preposition also denoting “of�
If “Yatsurugi no Yuki†implies the existence of modern Japanese, then “Haurchefant de Fortemps†(and similar names) must, by the same logic, clearly implicate the existence of an in-universe French, and Baron von Quiveron implicates the existence of an in-universe German.
So with that, on to some questions.
Conclusion: “Hingan tongue†and “Doman tongue†are phrases that are used purely to explain Japanese terms to non-Japanese speakers, and are mentioned only in the English version; if this was not the case, then they would have been mentioned in the other versions of the game dialogue. It is highly unlikely that these terms were intended to formally establish the existence of a modern Hingan or Doman language that is used in every-day life, hence why Doman is described as a “dialect†of common Hyur language in the lore book.
These dialects exist only as vocabulary swaps; ijin instead of foreigner, koban instead of coin, aibou instead of partner, etc. There are no grammar rules, sentence structures, or any other significant differences that formally establish the presence of a full-fledged language. It's basically a way to justify those fun word swaps and teach the non-JP people some esoteric Japanese words.
In the English version, “Ancient Hingan†is formally established to exist and is implied to form the basis of the vocabulary swaps. Otherwise, no mention is made of it.
--
Like I said, don't take this as a condemnation of any sort; you do what you want. Anybody who wants to roleplay speaking Japanese as Hingan or Doman has, is, and will always be free to do so, and lore-policing is a no-no! (unless specifically asked for). More power to you!
I recently did a bit of research into this particular topic to establish conclusively (short of getting an official answer from Koji or Square Enix) whether or not "Hingan" or "Doman" exist as a separate language, and whether speaking Hingan or Doman could be considered lore-friendly. For some reason, this seems to be a contested topic, so hopefully these findings will shed a bit of much-needed light. My intention here isn't to spark debate as much as it is to present what available evidence (or lack thereof) exists and open it to interpretation.
TL;DR: The concept of “Hingan†and “Doman†languages most likely exists only as a localisation tool, primarily to explain Japanese terms to non-Japanese speakers and to thinly justify why there are Japanese words in the non-Japanese versions of FFXIV. There is no mention made of a different alphabet, grammar, system of writing, or sentence structure; only rudimentary vocabulary swaps. It’s highly unlikely that Square Enix intended or intends for “Hingan†or “Doman†to be a full-fledged language existing in the FFXIV universe.
TL;DR 2: Do whatever you want as long as you're not hurting anyone or forcing them to do something against their will. It's just internet pretend fun-times, who cares.
Firstly, there exist numerous references in-game to the existence of a “Hingan tongue†or “Doman tongueâ€, in the English version of the game only.
Jannequinard Wrote:“An excellent proposal…or as I believe the Hingans say, “keikaku.†I dabbled a bit in the language when I was younger but for the life of me that ebon-haired emissary would not afford me even a sidelong glan─â€
Alisaie Wrote:“Yes, and I speak fluent Hingan. Come on, there’s no point putting this off!â€
Lyse Wrote:(When I asked Kotokaze what “Namazu†meant, she said it was Hingan for catfish. And there I was thinking she’d said “fishermanâ€!)
Hanzo Wrote:Bunshin-no-jutsu─so we call it in the Hingan tongue. Mirrors, and mirrors of mirrors─in a matter of moments, my few loyal men appeared from afar to be a legion.
Raulf Wrote:The key to the dish is the broth, called dashi, which as far as I can decipher means “exit juice.†I’m, er, sure it sounds more appetizing in the Doman tongue. The peculiarities of language aside, dashi is made by boiling dried fish, and it’s supposed to be the base for many Far Eastern dishes.
Quote:Your pronunciation of the Doman language seems to have satisfied Byakubu, who grants you passage into the ninja hideout.
Et cetera. There a few other inklings, but these are a few of the most prominent examples, and by themselves, hints pretty clearly at "Doman" and "Hingan" existing as distinct, separate languages with completely different alphabets.
That said, there are conclusively no direct references to a modern Hingan or Doman language in the Japanese, French, or German versions of the dialogue. There are, at most, one or two vague references.
In the instances where Japanese words are translated in other versions, translation is either glossed over or, in one particular case in the French version, is equated to a phrase in “en langue commune†(the common languageâ€).
In other instances (specifically the French and German versions), reference is made to the “ancient language†i.e. Ancient Hingan, same as the English version.
In the Japanese and German versions, there are no references made to any differing languages. There are no translations or references to translations in the Japanese version at all, unless it’s in reference to a fictional, dead language (such as the Nymian language).
In the German version specifically, translations of Japanese words are explained with no reference to Hingan or Doman. At best, it's explained in the manner of "this is what people call this thing, and it means this".
There is exactly one instance in the French version where the following phrase is uttered by a Hingan:
Quote:Vous, là ! Vous parlez la même langue que moi? (You, there! You speak the same language as me?)
Some might assert that Hingan/Doman exists because of names. For example, “Yatsurugi no Yukiâ€, “Ame no Murakamo†(Susano’s sword), whatever the name of Zenos’ sword is which I can’t remember off the top of my head, etc. “no†is a Japanese possessive particle (that can function as a preposition or modifier), therefore Japanese exists, right?
The problem with that is the implications.
Does French exist on Hydaelyn because Elezen names use “de†(such as “Haurchefant de Fortempsâ€), and “de†is a French preposition denoting “ofâ€?
Does German exist on Hydaelyn because an NPC is named “Baron von Quiveron III Esquire†exists in-game, and “von†is a German preposition also denoting “of�
If “Yatsurugi no Yuki†implies the existence of modern Japanese, then “Haurchefant de Fortemps†(and similar names) must, by the same logic, clearly implicate the existence of an in-universe French, and Baron von Quiveron implicates the existence of an in-universe German.
So with that, on to some questions.
- 1). If Square Enix genuinely intended for Hingan and Doman languages to formally exist in-universe, why is there little to no mention of them in other localisations of the game, and no mention in the base JP?
- 2).What language do Hingans and Domans speak in the Japanese version of the game?
- 3).Why don’t any of the Domans or Hingans speak Doman or Hingan to each other when they’re in private and not around any foreigners?
- 4). Why does everyone speak the same language even to characters who don't have the Echo?
Conclusion: “Hingan tongue†and “Doman tongue†are phrases that are used purely to explain Japanese terms to non-Japanese speakers, and are mentioned only in the English version; if this was not the case, then they would have been mentioned in the other versions of the game dialogue. It is highly unlikely that these terms were intended to formally establish the existence of a modern Hingan or Doman language that is used in every-day life, hence why Doman is described as a “dialect†of common Hyur language in the lore book.
These dialects exist only as vocabulary swaps; ijin instead of foreigner, koban instead of coin, aibou instead of partner, etc. There are no grammar rules, sentence structures, or any other significant differences that formally establish the presence of a full-fledged language. It's basically a way to justify those fun word swaps and teach the non-JP people some esoteric Japanese words.
In the English version, “Ancient Hingan†is formally established to exist and is implied to form the basis of the vocabulary swaps. Otherwise, no mention is made of it.
--
Like I said, don't take this as a condemnation of any sort; you do what you want. Anybody who wants to roleplay speaking Japanese as Hingan or Doman has, is, and will always be free to do so, and lore-policing is a no-no! (unless specifically asked for). More power to you!
![[Image: 716e084af5129400e5c2fc5617597658.png]](https://i.gyazo.com/716e084af5129400e5c2fc5617597658.png)
![[Image: tUzrT.png]](https://puu.sh/tUzrT.png)
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