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Kylin · **06-26-2013, 08:38 AM**

Hey guys, this has recently become a minor problem so I wanted to make a quick post about it.

Threads in the Linkshell Hall are being constantly bumped lately when not needed. At least a couple of other LS leaders have become agitated by it and I'd rather a bumping war not start anytime soon.

Please limit posts in the Linkshell Hall to primarily updates about the shell in general. Random commentary such as "cool concept!" or "looking forward to RPing with this group" are unnecessary. A high volume of the recent comments in this part of the forum can/should be kept in PMs. Constant bumping of threads to the top of the list can stir up a competitive atmosphere and unfriendly feelings toward said shells.

Thank you for your understanding in this matter!

Magellan · **06-26-2013, 09:06 AM**

If the purpose of that forum is for advertising only (and not for linkshells to talk amongst themselves) is there a way to make it admin access only for posting?

LS leaders would then submit their LS post to admins to be put up.

Oh! And maybe sticky the LS forum policy in that forum and ask ppl to read it!

Deirdre · **06-26-2013, 10:51 AM**

I want to say that I took a look at the Linshell Hall page and didn't find any evidence of actual LS bumping, more conversations between interested people. Regardless, who cares? It's not like they are getting more traffic because of it. Some LS's with 0 posts have more than a thousand views.
If you don't want people to post, maybe adding that feature would be a better way of handling the problem you think is there.

On a side note, maybe a discussion should be had instead on making the Linshell Leader meetings transparent, uneditable and unrevisable.

Kylin · **06-26-2013, 11:06 AM**

(06-26-2013, 09:06 AM)Magellan Wrote: If the purpose of that forum is for advertising only (and not for linkshells to talk amongst themselves) is there a way to make it admin access only for posting?

LS leaders would then submit their LS post to admins to be put up.

Oh! And maybe sticky the LS forum policy in that forum and ask ppl to read it!

Making it admin access only would be only more of a headache (for both myself and those who wish to post a new shell up). Besides, it would also make LS update posts and edits less manageable. This issue is only a problem at this stage of pre-launch, and will almost certainly go away post-launch (like it did in 1.0). That's the only reason I'm posting about it now. Though a sticky may be a good idea ^^

(06-26-2013, 10:51 AM)Deirdre Wrote: I want to say that I took a look at the Linshell Hall page and didn't find any evidence of actual LS bumping, more conversations between interested people. Regardless, who cares? It's not like they are getting more traffic because of it. Some LS's with 0 posts have more than a thousand views.
If you don't want people to post, maybe adding that feature would be a better way of handling the problem you think is there.

On a side note, maybe a discussion should be had instead on making the Linshell Leader meetings transparent, uneditable and unrevisable.

Not bumping in the normal sense, no. But the random little posts here and there ARE a minor problem. Otherwise, I wouldn't have LS leaders contacting me and saying as such, nor would I be making this post. As I said in my OP, we don't need Linkshells looking negatively upon other shells based on something as minor as this that can easily be prevented. Back in the day, things were no different either. The section was reserved primarily for updates from the linkshells, not actual discussions that would keep the linkshell at the top of the listings. Questions and updates are fine. The examples I listed in my OP are not, however.

Again, this is only a temporary issue that will resolve itself on its own post-launch. This post is just to increase awareness to the temporary issue. Adding features/posting restrictions is highly unnecessary when a simple reminder like this is generally effective enough.

As for the LS leader meetings...that is up the LS leaders and them alone. The meeting minutes are already very transparent and only parts THEY want left out are left out. And they have every right to privacy in certain discussions.

Deirdre · **06-26-2013, 11:18 AM**

I know plenty of leaders and no one has complained at all... So I'm not sure where this is coming from. These posts are harmless and useless towards promoting. It's not about who is on top of the list, that's just terribly silly. If someone is going to get up in arms every time a post is made, disable posting. I don't think anyone has malicious intent.

Regarding the LS Leader meetings, I'm sorry but no, you don't have a right to exclude things in an interaction like that. On the moderator forum, yes you have a right to privacy as mods, but not in a visibly posted transcripts of a meeting that is essentially public. This is not a private conversation between friends.

Kylin · **06-26-2013, 11:25 AM**

(06-26-2013, 11:18 AM)Deirdre Wrote: I know plenty of leaders and no one has complained at all... So I'm not sure where this is coming from. These posts are harmless and useless towards promoting. It's not about who is on top of the list, that's just terribly silly. If someone is going to get up in arms every time a post is made, disable posting. I don't think anyone has malicious intent.

Regarding the LS Leader meetings, I'm sorry but no, you don't have a right to exclude things in an interaction like that. On the moderator forum, yes you have a right to privacy as mods, but not in a visibly posted transcripts of a meeting that is essentially public. This is not a private conversation between friends.

I know plenty of leaders as well? If they're going to complain about something like this, they'd go to the forum staff, not you (no disrespect intended). And nobody is "up in arms." Annoyed would probably be the better term to use. This is simply a matter of etiquette that has existed since this community was first established three years ago. And it works well.

I'd like some clarification to the whole "you don't have a right to exclude things in an interaction like that" statement. As I may be horribly misinterpreting that and don't want to say what I'm thinking of saying in response until I know for sure what's meant by it. Are you talking about the -placement- of the meeting transcripts? The redaction of certain portions requested by the leaders? Or something else?

Merri · **06-26-2013, 11:32 AM**

Could always have a subforum for people to post discussion threads for their linkshells and include a link on their actual ad to said thread. Give people a place to ask questions that isn't on the ad itself, and leave the comments on ads strictly for linkshell leaders/officers to post updates if needed.

Kylin · **06-26-2013, 11:34 AM**

(06-26-2013, 11:32 AM)Merri Wrote: Could always have a subforum for people to post discussion threads for their linkshells and include a link on their actual ad to said thread. Give people a place to ask questions that isn't on the ad itself, and leave the comments on ads strictly for linkshell leaders/officers to post updates if needed.

We actually did this back in the day with the "Pub" section. We knocked down the administration center (originally used for LS to post rules or something like that) and put up a tavern xD. It worked for awhile. Maybe putting it back up again would do some good, though it'll probably get removed again later down the line when the forums die down.

Deirdre · **06-26-2013, 11:34 AM**

I think there are a lot more forum etiquette issues than that, but it's your forum and your choice what to moderate. What I'm saying is its kind of just a little silly to get 'annoyed' by people having a conversation in a thread about the topic. I don't think anyone in there had the intention of bumping. Just my opinion.

I'm speaking entirely of redaction. I just wish for more transparency for the community.

Eva · **06-26-2013, 11:37 AM**

I was just thinking this was kind of how it was done before.

If the sequence of the posts is a concern, is there a way for them to be posted in random order for that forum rather than by the date of the last post on it? I know with PHP this is not too difficult to accomplish in the code, but I'm not sure if it's been done before. For that particular forum it would make a lot of sense.

"Here are your RP communities, in no particular order..." Thumbsup

Magellan · **06-26-2013, 11:39 AM**

Tbh, I kind of agree with Deirdre, and never knew bumping/having enthusiasm over one's guild/LS could be annoying in the first place.

However, I also agree mods have the right to run the site they are modfing however they see fit.

Kylin · **06-26-2013, 11:51 AM**

The randomizing order thing is something I recently tried to look into actually. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem that likely. I'll look into it further though just to be safe. It's entirely possible to change the order of posts based on other criteria though, rather than "most recent posts." But none of these criteria really make sense, save maybe alphabetical...but I'm not sure I like that ordering system much either.

As for the redaction issue...that's something to take up with all the LS leaders. Not myself or the staff here. THEY want stuff redacted for their own sakes. To give an example...this last meeting only had one redaction really. It was a PM someone shared with the group. That PM and parts of the conversation surrounding it were redacted for very good reason (privacy reasons). Heck, in that instance I would have made the decision to redact that even if the LS leaders wanted it public because it was a PM on this site, and I don't believe in the exposure of something like that without the author's consent.

I'll probably go ahead and implement Merri's idea for LS discussions/banter though, leaving the LS Hall strictly for announcements and such.

Curtis West · **06-26-2013, 12:52 PM**

But but but... why would anyone get mad about their fellow RPers getting a bump of any kind on top of the LS list? I think the "competition" mentality is the problem, if that's the case, rather than bumping. I've not seen any "bump" post, I have seen enthusiasm however. Can we as a community refrain from making that a bad thing? Maybe we can just feel happy for other Linkshells besides our own getting some exposure? Let's approach this with a sense of camaraderie for fellow RPers. We're all in the same boat, aren't we?Â Heart

Also where are the meeting notes posted? I'd love to have a look.Â Undecided

Nevermind, found them.

The concept of privacy in any form on a forum is tricky. In my past (non-RP) guild on GW2, a whole back and forth PMs were posted due to some much needed clarification. Then one party got really upset because they thought that it was against the rules to disclose PMs. I think a line needs to be drawn in any community, to either point out that PMs are in fact private messages that should not be allowed to be discussed in public (such as a guild leader meeting) or labeled as Player to Player messages that allow for direct communication, rather than privacy. Thumbsup

Eva · **06-26-2013, 12:54 PM**

Since you seem to have your own log that differs from what was posted, why don't you share with us exactly what it is that's bothering you so much? Â Every representative in those meetings has been fair and mature and I'm sure if you need some clarification he or she would be glad to provide an explanation as to why a particular line of chat was redacted.

EDIT TO APPEND: If whatever was said really is of an inflammatory nature and you don't want to create any additional drama, perhaps sending a PM to whichever leader/rep said it may also be warranted.

Averis · **06-26-2013, 01:22 PM**

To the OP, the only problem I see coming from trying to restrict "random LS posts" to "LS updates" is that instead of other LS leaders getting annoyed at random LS banter bumping threads, they will get annoyed at the LS management staff posting random LS updates instead. IE the same end result except that they will be directing their annoyance at the LS leaders instead of just random LS members/interested parties. That may actually become a bigger problem and then more meetings will be redacted when LS leaders complain to other LS leaders that they are bumping their thread unfairly.

If this forum system is anything like PHPBB, maybe place all LS leaders into a separate "group" so that you can apply permissions to just that group to post in the LS section. But still, the above problem will likely come up anyway.

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Linkshell Hall Bumping

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