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allgivenover · **01-15-2014, 09:26 PM**

As we all know, roleplaying the jobs can be a tricky process.Â

So far I've had no intention of roleplaying Rakka'li as a White Mage, thus far he's been just a Conjurer with a moderate talent for Hearing. However I've lately been considering - and this could take some time - having him actually become a White Mage. I'm still undecided here, but I'd like to get outside input on the subject.

As I understand it being a White Mage in character would imply some connection with the Seedseers, a highly exclusive group that likely isn't too keen on sharing their secrets with anyone. So, given what we know of White Mage lore - if you made the decision to write a way for your character to become a White Mage - how would you go about it?Â

Please don't treat this as a debate about whether or not it's correct to roleplay the jobs, that isn't the question I'm posing here. I'm more interested in how you would go about it in a hypothetical situation where you chose to do this. If you're already doing it in character, then share how you've already gone about it~

Thanks~

ansemaru · **01-15-2014, 09:29 PM**

I've thought about it before. Probably would skip the middlemen and have some kind of a deal or circumstance with an Elemental be the direct cause of it- since they're ultimately the arbiters all Succor-related business.

Of course, I'm not exactly excited about the prospect of wrangling lore for it, since everyone kicks up so much of a fuss about it.

LiadansWhisper · **01-15-2014, 09:30 PM**

I think the "safest" course would to be a student of an unnamed student that A-Towa-Kant could have taught the ways of Succor to.

Edited to Add: It would also be a huge-ass secret. Because White Magic is still technically forbidden, and only Padjal were allowed to be taught it, etc. So, yeah. I wouldn't announce it, either. I'd make it a centerpiece secret of my character.

Naunet · **01-15-2014, 09:50 PM**

Mmm...

-There's bound to be other lost white mages besides A-Towa-Cant in the history of white mages. Perhaps your character manages to unearth the soul remnants of one of them and gradually learns to draw on it for knowledge, using that connection with the soul to gain access to succor. Could even be a soul as ancient as the time before the elementals wiped out white magic, which might make for some fun conflict with Gridanians.
- I have to wonder just how far the reach of the elementals goes beyond the Shroud, which is a highly insular territory. I wonder also if it might be easier beyond the walls of the Shroud to, say, broker agreements with elementals for access to succor. There's no such thing as Woodwrath or Greenwrath outside of the Shroud, after all. So... possible entry there.

My brain's tired after doing wedding planning stuff all day, so this is all I can do for now. Sorry. xD

T'shina · **01-15-2014, 10:45 PM**

I personally have played off that in the storyline, it tells of an adventurer who was accepted to be a White Mage. That this opened up the ability for the Seedseers to pick from those in the Conjury Guild to learn Succor and to expand the White Mages of old for the newer times and the new Era.

But that is just me. I felt it was more open to allowing people to RP the class. It would still require being chosen and hard work to gain recognition as well.

Sounsyy · **01-15-2014, 11:35 PM**

So I've come up with a few creative ways to be / become a White Mage without breaking or ignoring the lore. Just by bending it some.

Can start off with the two in-game methods for becoming a White Mage:
1. You are born of the Padjal line in one of the many Padjal families. Padjal were created by the Elementals for the specific purpose of being bearers of the Succor because they are pure, innocent, and incorruptible. They do not grow up, they do not go through puberty, they do not lust.
2. You are a person deemed by an Elemental to be pure of soul and purpose. Incorruptible by evil.

"Gentle child of man... Thy heart knoweth no vice, thine intentions being righteous from the first."
-Oha Sok; The Wheel of Disaster

"O child of gentle heart... My kindred acknowledge thy fervent wish for peace. Thine is a heart that brimmeth with compassion - a compassion that knoweth not fear, and favoreth not friend o'er foe. It is to that compassion that my kindred and I shall trust. Of their own free will, they would fain give themselves unto thy garb of Succor. Thy hopes and dreams, they take to be their own."
-Oha Sok; The Chorus of Cataclysm

Then you can get creative:
1. In the 1.0 CNJ storyline, an Elemental takes an Ishgardian boy lost in the Wood and turns him into a Wildling. When the boy awakes besides Amber Scale Rock, he can no longer remember who he is or where he came from. He is found by the Conjurers of Stillglade Fane and taken to Gridania where he is given a name and trained as a Conjurer. But the boy can already speak freely with the Elementals because of his connection to them. This in-game story can be used for inspiration for your own. Any character, living any life, can easily be taken by an elemental and given a purpose to the Wood. Perhaps one takes your character and breathes the light of succor into them.Â

2. There existed an eccentric Padjal by the name of A-Towa-Cant in the early days of Gridania. It is said he left the Twelveswood to travel the world. It is also said that he has an apprentice. But it is never said that that apprentice is also a Padjal. Perhaps A-Towa-Cant's teachings were passed down from apprentice to apprentice, then eventually to you.

3. In a similar vain, perhaps A-Towa-Cant was not the only Padjal to leave the Twelveswood. Very few Padjal appear in the actual game, but it is given to believe that several more exist. (A couple from 1.0 haven't yet shown up in 2.0)

4. Elementals do not just live within the Twelveswood. They exist everywhere. They are the physical manifestation of the Aether of Nature. Just as they are the wind, the water, the trees, and the earth of the Shroud, they are also these things in other places. Perhaps not as clustered as in the Twelveswood, but present none-the-less. Your assistance to one of these Elementals may go rewarded?

5. Play around with the idea of being the servant of an Elemental. Wildling or other.Â

6. You can RP a Padjal. I got a lot of flak about this on another thread but don't really care. Not all RPers roleplay in game. Some perform forum-based RP only. Or a mix of. Therefor, Padjal doesn't have to be a race choice to RP one. And I'd say you can play as a Padjal in game even so. A good many RPers I've run across have very young characters. ( <30 years old) Knowing that Padjal's horns grow with age, and considering we have no basis for knowing just how long a Padjal can live, I'd wager that the horns on a 15-25 year old character would be quite short. Even hide-able with hat, helm, or hair. If you want long horns, just say "Hey, this is my character but with Padjali horns." I've seen RPers give more farfetched descriptions of how their characters differ from in-game models...

7. Play around with the idea of being an Elemental taking the physical form of a child of man. Elementals take many forms, why not as one of us? It's as taboo as playing a White Mage, so why not? No one has to know ICly.

8. I've had this insane theory (that I stand by) that Sylphie, the girl in the ARR CNJ quests, has access to Succor that she does not realize, and E-Sumi does not wish to be exposed. Conjury is the manipulation of the Aether around the caster, it does not drain ones own Aetherial stores. Yet Sylphie's magic does. Sylphie has little interest and proficiency in typical Conjury skills like Wind or Water, but has a natural-born affinity to healing. (Succor) And E-Sumi is quick to discourage, forbid, and chastise the use of this magic. Perhaps because he fears she will get herself killed with it. Perhaps because it is a forbidden magic that only Padjal are supposed to wield or even know about...

I am an avid believer in following the lore to the best of your knowledge. It's why we RP in this world right? Because we love the story. While I will always recommend caution when RPing a White Mage, I believe so long as you have an interesting and plausible explanation that does not break lore you will be just fine. So hope this helps!

Sounsyy · **01-15-2014, 11:43 PM**

(01-15-2014, 09:50 PM)Naunet Wrote: - I have to wonder just how far the reach of the elementals goes beyond the Shroud, which is a highly insular territory. I wonder also if it might be easier beyond the walls of the Shroud to, say, broker agreements with elementals for access to succor. There's no such thing as Woodwrath or Greenwrath outside of the Shroud, after all. So... possible entry there.

Well, the Elementals did flood all the known world during the Sixth Umbral Era, so I think it's safe to say their reach is quite far. haha

And there are Elementals that exist outside the Twelveswood. They are the Aether of Nature, so they exist everywhere.

LiadansWhisper · **01-16-2014, 12:42 AM**

(01-15-2014, 11:35 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: 8. I've had this insane theory (that I stand by) that Sylphie, the girl in the ARR CNJ quests, has access to Succor that she does not realize, and E-Sumi does not wish to be exposed. Conjury is the manipulation of the Aether around the caster, it does not drain ones own Aetherial stores. Yet Sylphie's magic does. Sylphie has little interest and proficiency in typical Conjury skills like Wind or Water, but has a natural-born affinity to healing. (Succor) And E-Sumi is quick to discourage, forbid, and chastise the use of this magic. Perhaps because he fears she will get herself killed with it. Perhaps because it is a forbidden magic that only Padjal are supposed to wield or even know about...

Sylphie is a Hearer. Â Hearers are born, not made. Â Hearers have an innate ability with Conjury, though they apparently may not recognize it or fully understand what it is they are doing. Â Because of this, they do not always draw from the aether around them (as standard Conjurers and White Mages do). Â Instead, they draw from their own aether. Â The reason E-Sumi-Yan is so against what Sylphie is doing is made explicitly clear during the Conjurer questline - she's drawing on her own aether, and as a result is slowly killing herself. Â The more power she expends, the more she is cannibalizing from her own life force. Â This is why her mother died - apparently her mother actually managed to Raise someone else, but in the process damaged her own life energy so badly that she died from it.

The Elementals were apparently trying to get Sylphie's attention and were offering her power to heal others and protect herself, but Sylphie didn't understand what they were saying (in part because her mother - having heard voices for as long as she could remember, but apparently never having been identified by the Conjurer's guild as a Hearer, and thus trained - drilled into Sylphie the belief that the Elementals were angry with the Conjurers and Gridania as a whole, and that they didn't like anyone using their power), and rejected the help.

It's interesting to note that every Padjal is also a Hearer.

Ildur · **01-16-2014, 12:44 AM**

Roleplaying a Padjal, an Elemental or a chosen one of the Elementals is just making your character a Mary Sue. Padjal are part of Gridania's ruling body, so it is a major "Mary Sueism", even if you imply he's wandering around and not delving in politics. Still, they are directly influenced by the Elementals, so besides being a leader of Gridania (and nobody could refute you because that's what Padjal are meant to do) you are also a Chosen One. Being deemed pure by the Elementals is akin to being a Chosen One of any other god-like entity. Being one of the Elementals taking physical form is no different that implying your character is Nophica made manifest, or that you are a piece of Bahamut soul. It's just asking for incredible trouble.
Of course, if you don't care about the implications your character has on other roleplayers (maybe because you are part of a close group who is okay with those type of characters), then be my guest.

All the other suggestions are intereting and plausible enough, though, specially the Wildlings one, though you have to remember Wildlings are 'cursed' to roam the Shroud forever, so it might be hard to justify going anywhere else ICly. Not impossible, but pretty hard to do unless you handwave it with "the Elementals work in mysterious ways".

Naunet · **01-16-2014, 01:08 AM**

(01-15-2014, 11:43 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: And there are Elementals that exist outside the Twelveswood. They are the Aether of Nature, so they exist everywhere.

I know they exist, but it seems the elementals are very deliberately restricting their authority to within the Shroud's borders. Why else would one be unable to attract woodwrath outside the Shroud? Or avoid its consequences by leaving it?

Sounsyy · **01-16-2014, 01:36 AM**

(01-16-2014, 01:08 AM)Naunet Wrote:
(01-15-2014, 11:43 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: And there are Elementals that exist outside the Twelveswood. They are the Aether of Nature, so they exist everywhere.

I know they exist, but it seems the elementals are very deliberately restricting their authority to within the Shroud's borders. Why else would one be unable to attract woodwrath outside the Shroud? Or avoid its consequences by leaving it?

Hmm, not sure. I know that the Twelveswood Elementals do have some control over the world outside. I'll reference the 1.0 CNJ class quests again. The Wildling Conjurer Morys attempts to leave the Twelveswood to go and search for something in an Ishgardian hamlet called Owl's Nest. But the Elementals make him go poof right in front of your eyes. You later find him curled up unconscious beneath Amber Scale Rock.

As for why the Elementals seem to be powerless outside the Shroud, my only hypothesis would be because they are revered in the Twelveswood. Despite the Elementals being ageless, they can be killed. There is a cutscene where Kan-E-Senna sends off three dead Elementals who were slain by Garleans. And this was within the Shroud! I guess Elementals are too afraid to appear in lands like Thanalan where they may be killed for profit? Makes me think of 1.0 LNC quest where some Ul'dahn merchant/mercenaries try to kidnap a moogle and bring it back to Ul'dah. Hehe naturally this envokes Greenwrath against them and you have to save their hides...

LiadansWhisper · **01-16-2014, 03:48 AM**

(01-16-2014, 12:44 AM)Ildur Wrote: Roleplaying a Padjal, an Elemental or a chosen one of the Elementals is just making your character a Mary Sue.

No more than rolling a White Mage. Â Unique doesn't automatically equate to "Mary Sue." Â I think the term is thrown around way too much. Â Just because something is different, or special, doesn't make it bad.

Quote:Padjal are part of Gridania's ruling body, so it is a major "Mary Sueism", even if you imply he's wandering around and not delving in politics.

The only Padjal we definitively see as part of Gridania's ruling body are the Seedseers. Â And there are only three of them - whereas there are other Padjal that are obviously not part of that body. Â Making the claim that you can't play Padjal because 3 of them rule Gridania is like saying you can't play a Lalafell because Ul'dah is ruled by the Sultanate of Ul.

Quote:Still, they are directly influenced by the Elementals, so besides being a leader of Gridania (and nobody could refute you because that's what Padjal are meant to do)

Yes, you can. Â The sole purpose of the Padjal is to intercede between the Elementals and the Gridanians. Â It does not automatically follow that this makes them rulers. Â At best, you could say they are Emissaries - so diplomats.

Quote:you are also a Chosen One. Being deemed pure by the Elementals is akin to being a Chosen One of any other god-like entity. Being one of the Elementals taking physical form is no different that implying your character is Nophica made manifest, or that you are a piece of Bahamut soul. It's just asking for incredible trouble.

Technically, you're the "Chosen One" if you play a White Mage at all, unless you ignore the lore. Â But I think it's perfectly viable to say that your character is one of a very few who was deemed pure by the Elementals. Â Unless you're claiming to the be the only one, I don't see how it drifts into "Chosen One" territory, beyond the already difficult issue of being a White Mage.

Quote:All the other suggestions are intereting and plausible enough, though, specially the Wildlings one, though you have to remember Wildlings are 'cursed' to roam the Shroud forever, so it might be hard to justify going anywhere else ICly. Not impossible, but pretty hard to do unless you handwave it with "the Elementals work in mysterious ways".

Agreed.

LiadansWhisper · **01-16-2014, 03:51 AM**

(01-16-2014, 01:36 AM)Sounsyy Wrote:
(01-16-2014, 01:08 AM)Naunet Wrote:
(01-15-2014, 11:43 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: And there are Elementals that exist outside the Twelveswood. They are the Aether of Nature, so they exist everywhere.

I know they exist, but it seems the elementals are very deliberately restricting their authority to within the Shroud's borders. Why else would one be unable to attract woodwrath outside the Shroud? Or avoid its consequences by leaving it?

Hmm, not sure. I know that the Twelveswood Elementals do have some control over the world outside. I'll reference the 1.0 CNJ class quests again. The Wildling Conjurer Morys attempts to leave the Twelveswood to go and search for something in an Ishgardian hamlet called Owl's Nest. But the Elementals make him go poof right in front of your eyes. You later find him curled up unconscious beneath Amber Scale Rock.

As for why the Elementals seem to be powerless outside the Shroud, my only hypothesis would be because they are revered in the Twelveswood. Despite the Elementals being ageless, they can be killed. There is a cutscene where Kan-E-Senna sends off three dead Elementals who were slain by Garleans. And this was within the Shroud! I guess Elementals are too afraid to appear in lands like Thanalan where they may be killed for profit? Makes me think of 1.0 LNC quest where some Ul'dahn merchant/mercenaries try to kidnap a moogle and bring it back to Ul'dah. Hehe naturally this envokes Greenwrath against them and you have to save their hides...

I think it's safe to say that there are issues in Thanalan that would prevent the Elementals being active there, even if you leave out the mercenary side of things. Â Specifically, the place gets a lot of rain. Â But is still a desert. Â Now, it might just be SE being retarded, but it might also be a strong indication that there's something seriously off in Thanalan. Â It may also be that the Elementals there are so weak at this point that they can't interact at all.

LiadansWhisper · **01-16-2014, 03:52 AM**

(01-16-2014, 01:08 AM)Naunet Wrote:
(01-15-2014, 11:43 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: And there are Elementals that exist outside the Twelveswood. They are the Aether of Nature, so they exist everywhere.

I know they exist, but it seems the elementals are very deliberately restricting their authority to within the Shroud's borders. Why else would one be unable to attract woodwrath outside the Shroud? Or avoid its consequences by leaving it?

It's very possible that there are different "Courts" of Elementals, and this is the only one we've seen so far.

Nebbs · **01-16-2014, 04:15 AM**

For job type aspects I have in general used my own story to progress me and ignored the set one in the game. Maybe just the examples would be better than my approach..

WHM
Not a great student but a natural tallent.So she spent more time on laundry duty than most. Eventualy they sent her off to work with the Sylphs who like her more care free nature. This led to her finding a unicorn friend and will be her path to white mage.Â

SCH
As part of the sylph help she was sent to understand the breadth of magic, so did basics in all the other mage classes. With Arcainist she could not get this at all until somone helped her and she discovered the song within the Aether and herseld. So while she is a scholar she does in fact sing her spells and uses music as her formula equivalent.Â

BRD
This is her main role and she progressed from archer to traveling bard. Now with the addition of magic I class her as a Spell Singer and so more like an arcane archer.

PLD
Her latest experience, and I pay her as a Bard who is gaining a broad set of experiences. Here I totally rejected the paladin guild and it was through a relationship with her god that she progressed as a Paladin. However, I was pleasantly surprised with the story and so she is an associate as a free Paladin.

So I have kind of rolled the classes and jobs together into my character, rather than let the roles define her. She is a Bard first and foremost but now with some broader experiences. She has yet to get her relic bow IC even though she has had it ooc for ages.

Hope that helps.

edit: Just to add that this outcome was the result of RP, my initial idea was BRD/WHM but the RP took it in a different direction which is far more wonderful.

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Becoming a White Mage

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