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Zhavi · **01-28-2015, 04:04 PM**

(01-28-2015, 03:45 PM)FreelanceWizard Wrote: Zhavi is correct that the discussion about setting up specific RP that caters to specific groups should be a new thread, since it's off-topic here (and as someone whose FC arguably falls into that category, I have some thoughts on that. ) Please feel free to start a new thread for it.

Why not. Copying over a couple of posts. Have you had an extremely hard time finding specific rp? Have you failed? Have you succeeded? Do you have any tips? Have any thoughts about breaking in to a new community? Have any stories? Go for it.

I'd really like to hear more of Allgivenover's difficulties, if you're willing, man. It bothers me that you haven't been able to find someone to stick in a year in a half, because to me that sort of thing shouldn't happen. Tongue

(01-28-2015, 02:43 PM)Zhavi Wrote: First step: find someone to play the matriarch. You have specific wants. It's more likely you'll need to convince someone you know and trust to play this person. Alternatively, use a NPC placeholder and build around the role until you have someone to play it. Yes, playing with NPCs in game is a pain in the ass. How badly do you want this?

First step.5: set up some concrete goals, taglines -- the things that you want to remain even when things change as people come and go and the rp happens. These should be short and to the point.

Second step: find one or two other people to join you. At least one needs to be someone you trust to stick around -- this person is necessary because when you start looking at new people you have no idea how long they will stick around. Having someone to keep your plot threads moving and constant is utterly important.

Third step: recruit. Recruit, recruit, recruit. Super frustrating because you don't want just anyone -- you want people you'll enjoy writing with. This is, imo, the most time consuming. You have to send people pms, or else be prepared to be super patient hoping you run across people in game. Personally, I prefer ooc communication.

Fourth step: have a rp hook to draw people in that makes them excited to start with you. Collaborate with other rp plots (even if they're small and insular) if you can.

I could not find anyone doing the sort of rp I wanted to do in Limsa when I first joined. I spent so much time writing people, trying to work out rp times, trying to find people interested who wanted to work with me. It wasn't just luck that I found goodfellow, melkire, shay & enteris, ruru, hut and all the others who stuck with me -- it was time, and effort, and gradually expanding through contacts of contacts.

Yeah, what you want is a small subset of the rp community. I get that. Yeah, you have to work harder than others, I get that.

Either it's worth the trying, or it's not. And if you've already done all the above and still nothing, then I'd go back to the drawing board and start trying to figure out how to change how I approach people (am I somehow misrepresenting myself? am I not exciting enough? do I need another way of approaching people?), or what about the way I'm presenting things isn't appealing.

(01-28-2015, 03:36 PM)allgivenover Wrote: Sarcasm aside Zhavi, I've been all up and down that road (aside from actually posting on the forums, I prefer to approach people more directly, anyway) and it's been ruined every single time. I frankly just got tired of trying after a year and a half.
I'm a picky RPer, and obviously I've considered doing it myself, but by now I'm so disgusted by my experiences that I just chose to give up entirely.

(01-28-2015, 03:50 PM)Chris Ganale Wrote: As a self-titled ultra-loner who hates to do work getting RP, gripes all the time about going to fish for RP, always feels like an unwelcome outsider in well-established forums like this (and therefore feels that making use of the player connections forum would be a waste of bytes), and has admittedly written over half my characters into RP corners, I still take Chao to the QS at least once a week and fish for RP (badly; staring at one's notebook doesn't make for compelling bait).

Now that I think about it, there's really no point here and it doesn't contribute anything, but I'll leave it as a reminder to come back later and go into brief about some of my characters.

SessionZero · **01-28-2015, 04:16 PM**

I have a Miqo'te Summoner and an Ishgardian Elezen, and I've had no trouble finding a wizard's tower and an exiled Ishgardian vanguard to occupy their RP time, respectively.Â

The only other defined, selective RP type that would catch my eye is a Keeper clan, as I find Keeper tribal lore fascinating. If anyone has that sort of thing in mind, or has one established, I have the inactive alts and Fantasia potions for such an endeavor.

Cato · **01-28-2015, 04:29 PM**

I struggled to find consistent role-play before I signed up with a Free Company. I find that one of the biggest obstacles is that a lot of role-players on this site present themselves as being 'friendly and approachable' but then when an outsider tries to initiate contact they simply blow them off.

Not that they're obligated to role-play, mind you, but when they specifically post in an interest check thread it's disheartening when they're later not all that interested in getting involved with something after all.

It makes me worry that a lot of role-players who are not so bold in their attempts to find role-play end up being driven away as a result.

FreelanceWizard · **01-28-2015, 04:33 PM**

So, I said I had some thoughts on the issue. Mysterium is a fairly specific concept; it's about adventuring mages, which while a very common thing in Final Fantasy, are not especially common in Western fantasy. D&D, for instance, makes a big point in several editions about how wizards would much rather hang out in a tower away from the world and pore over books instead of going out and Being Big Damn Heroes. Most adventuring characters in Eorzea seem to define themselves as adventurers generally, not as a specific "class," so to speak. Naturally, this shrinks the potential player base.

While I freely admit part of what made Mysterium work was being prepped here during Beta 2 (first-mover advantage is significant in RP communities), there are some other things that help if you've got a specific concept in mind, I think:

Stick to your guns. You don't want to get a core group of people together, then have them leave because you've altered the concept from what they signed up for.
Keep recruiting. Always keep the doors open. Listen for people asking about groups and, if you think you might fit, talk to them. Player churn is an inevitability in MMOs -- now more than when EQ and UO were the only games in town. Your ultimate goal is to achieve what I like to call "critical mass," where the interactions among characters are self-sustaining. Critical mass seems to be around 15-20 active players with 8-10 on during "prime time."
RP in the open. I realize griefers are a pain in the ass, but some of the best and longest lasting RPers we've had are ones we literally just bumped into during RP in public. Remember, the RPC only reaches a small subset of the RP community, and even then, some people here are shy. (37.8% of RPC registrants have never posted even once. 66.6% have posted five times or less. A mere 300 users -- 5.8% -- have posted 100 times or more. We are a community of lurkers here. )
Don't demand exclusivity. This is a bigger issue in XIV, where the community tends to lean towards "LS for RP, FC for content." Don't force people to leave where they are to join you, because that cuts down your options even more.

Zhavi's comments are, IMO, right on the money, too. Building a group takes work, and the more specific your concept is, the more work it takes. Once you've got critical mass, you can reduce the amount of work you're doing, but initially, it's a lot of effort and it's easy to get discouraged.

To Graeham's point, Making Connections is a useful tool (I'm told), but it does take some effort, and not everything will pan out. I've posted in several threads there to the effect of, "yeah, I think we could get some RP together," and only once so far has it panned out. Think of it like a personal ad -- it's really a fishing expedition for RP opportunities, not all of which will materialize.

EDIT: Oh, right, I suppose I should answer, "what happens if you don't get critical mass?" It just means that you need to put in more work to keep the RP going. That means events, RP nights, spending time hanging out open for RP instead of doing instances, etc. Also, the number is an estimate; it depends on how many active (versus reactive) players you have, how much they RP versus play the game, how long they're on at any stretch, etc. YMMV.

Zhavi · **01-28-2015, 04:52 PM**

(01-28-2015, 04:29 PM)Graeham Ridgefield Wrote: I struggled to find consistent role-play before I signed up with a Free Company. I find that one of the biggest obstacles is that a lot of role-players on this site present themselves as being 'friendly and approachable' but then when an outsider tries to initiate contact they simply blow them off.

Not that they're obligated to role-play, mind you, but when they specifically post in an interest check thread it's disheartening when they're later not all that interested in getting involved with something after all.

It makes me worry that a lot of role-players who are not so bold in their attempts to find role-play end up being driven away as a result.

Yup. I agree with you, and I know there are going to be roleplayers who get discouraged and leave. But I mean, in part, that's life. Sometimes something happens, sometimes there's miscommunication, sometimes you just don't hear anything back and spend time wondering what happened. It's important, imo, to learn how to overcome the stumbles and keep trying. And it is doubly, doubly important to always check back with someone. My general rule is (assuming I don't decide to cast the line elsewhere after the first no go) if they either don't respond or blow me off three times, I move on to someone else. UNLESS it's someone I've rped with on numerous occasions; at that point I figure something is up and wait a week or two before trying again.

C'kayah Polaali · **01-28-2015, 06:35 PM**

I've never really had problems in the long term finding people to RP unpopular themes. In addition, like many people who've been complaining about their difficulties finding RP, I'm extremely introverted. I'm shy, I have social anxieties, and I have difficulties communicating with people. I've managed to overcome these things and successfully find RP for pretty much any theme I want, because I've adopted a very specific strategy.

I ask, and I help.

I started out RPing on Balmung with the idea that I would play a supporting character in other people's stories. I'm there to make them look good. To make their story go in a way that they enjoy. In the beginning, that was basically the only thing I did. As time went on and my character developed, I started RPing C'kayah's stories. And I discovered that I had a ready pool of people who were happy to RP with me there, because I'd already created relationships based on making their RP fun for them. That's the helping part.

As for the asking part, I developed this habit: If I'm bored, I'll sit somewhere where there are a lot of people. If I see anyone who looks interesting (they're walking, they're RPing, etc), I'll examine their character. If they look like a RPer (i.e.: they have a RP tag), I'll send them a /tell to say hi. If their character text says they're interested in a specific kind of RP, I'll usually ask about that - even if it doesn't seem like it's my cup of tea. We'll talk about what they're looking for, and I'll mention what I'm looking for, and we'll chat about the possibility of RPing together. Many times this leads nowhere. Many times the other person won't want to engage, or they're not looking for the sort of RP I'm looking for, or they're busy, or any number of other things. But many times they'll say "That sounds fun!" Then we'll send each other friend requests, or arrange to meet for RP. It's a numbers game, ultimately: The more RPers I meet, the greater the chance I'll meet someone who likes the sort of RP that I like.

It can be hard to reach out to a stranger and ask. I know this. For me, I have trouble thinking about what to say. I ended up basically coming up with a few set "pick up lines" for this: "Hi, how are you? I saw your search text. You're a roleplayer? What sort of RP are you looking for?" I take pains to be polite, to not be pushy, and to generally be a welcoming member of the RP community. And for those of you who this is especially hard for, I can offer this: It's a skill. It can be learned. It gets easier with practice.

One last thing that I do which really helps with this is to keep notes on the people I meet. Just simple things, like "Ailis Ashling - Elezen smuggler". It helps me when I see someone online in my friends list, because I can check them against the list and see what sort of RP they like.

Chris Ganale · **01-28-2015, 07:02 PM**

(01-28-2015, 06:35 PM)C Wrote: It can be hard to reach out to a stranger and ask. I know this. For me, I have trouble thinking about what to say. I ended up basically coming up with a few set "pick up lines" for this: "Hi, how are you? I saw your search text. You're a roleplayer? What sort of RP are you looking for?" I take pains to be polite, to not be pushy, and to generally be a welcoming member of the RP community. And for those of you who this is especially hard for, I can offer this: It's a skill. It can be learned. It gets easier with practice.

It worked for Chao. I just had the misfortune of having someone else literally walk straight up to me before I could get involved.

We'll get on it someday. Maybe tonight if I get tired of t4 not giving me the MNK gear.

Enla · **01-28-2015, 07:19 PM**

I can't speak to my experiences in Final Fantays XIV: ARR as of yet, as they're still being built, however I have noticed that the more specific you tend to RP the harder it can be to initiate lasting contacts. Part of the reason that Cylin is so transient is to give myself an excuse to find my niche and figure out the various quirks of the community, though her distrustful and blunt nature with strangers makes it hard for her to form any lasting contacts. Which, honestly, is fine. I don't always want to play a happy and open character, so someone who butts heads with most people she meets and is a big glob of emotional constipation is a decent fit for myself.

With that said, just reaching out is the first and biggest hurdle you'll face. Half of my last friendships in RP were made simply because I was watching the chat box while my character was parked in a frequent RP destination and complimented the people I thought were RPing very well. Sometimes nothing pans out from it, and frankly that something would is never my intention, but sometimes that little compliment turns into a discussion, which then turns into a desire to RP one on one, and so on and so forth. I'm scared of offending people and talking to others often makes me feel sick to my stomach. However I was brought up to compliment others and to be friendly to everyone I meet regardless of that anxiety. In the end, that's really all that needs to be said. Be friendly and people will usually reciprocate. RP doesn't need to be the end goal, though you might want it to come to that and many times it will. But eventually like C'kayah pointed out you'll have built up enough contacts by putting others first that they might be willing to aid you in your own story ideas.

My biggest advice is to not get discouraged though if you can't get anyone to work with you as quickly as you'd like. It'll take awhile, but so long as you keep persisting you'll eventually find like minded people who are willing to go along with your RP ideas.

allgivenover · **01-28-2015, 07:26 PM**

While I appreciate the effort Zhavi, I retired Rakka'li over a month ago and am not really interested in trying again. A break from RP until Heavensward will do me good.

I briefly considered writing a way for him to be non-traditional to get away from the mess that is "traditional Miqo'te RP", but at this point I'm totally enchanted by the idea of AuRa and far too burned out from Miqo'te stuff to put in the effort.

But here's some advice I have for people trying to find a niche:

Re-using FreeLanceWizard's words here, but anyway, stick to your guns. Don't force yourself to put up with RP you have severe problems with - like lore breaking, slight godmoding, or sudden retcons - because the alternative is to not RP with that group. You'll just end up not having fun.
Find people that "pay it forward". Â If the only RP you seem to get from a group involves furthering their personal goals or giving them attention while your character is barely considered, dump them. Don't hold out expecting them to consider your character, they won't.
Steer clear of fetishism. This one might be hard to spot because some of these role players disguise themselves as trying to build an edgy narrative with a taboo subject, but it's important because this sort of role player will abandon you once the fetish play has lost its luster, leaving you with hanging threads and an awkward history.
Make sure you're on the same page philosophically. If your ideas about RP are at odds with the rest of the group, leave. This could be about anything (what's "allowed" to be RP'd, what level of lore-bending is permitted, etc). If you don't establish this properly you can end up in an awkward situation where everyone else is happy but you.

I was so desperate to find the sort of RP I was looking for that I didn't do any of these things that I normally do, and it was a big mistake.

Zhavi · **01-29-2015, 12:50 PM**

(01-28-2015, 07:26 PM)allgivenover Wrote: I was so desperate to find the sort of RP I was looking for that I didn't do any of these things that I normally do, and it was a big mistake.

I'm really sorry to hear things didn't work out for you, that's a terrible feeling. I hope that by the time Heavensward rolls around you're ready to give rp another shot!

I have had the experience of, well, sometimes your rp style doesn't mesh with someone else's, too. And I totally agree that at that point you gotta acknowledge that it isn't working for you and move on. RP is supposed to be fun, after all, and if you're not having fun, what's the point?

Cato · **01-30-2015, 01:14 PM**

(01-28-2015, 07:26 PM)allgivenover Wrote:
Steer clear of fetishism. This one might be hard to spot because some of these role players disguise themselves as trying to build an edgy narrative with a taboo subject, but it's important because this sort of role player will abandon you once the fetish play has lost its luster, leaving you with hanging threads and an awkward history.

It's kind of alarming how many role-players cut off contact with me when they realise that I'm not willing to have Graeham jump into bed with their character within a few hours of meeting them. What's even more alarming is that some people expect ERP just because my character happens to be a bit of a flirt. It's already made for a few awkward situations.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not opposed to ERP. I just think the community as a whole is far too tolerant of it. I see it as a very private affair, not something that should be bragged about in public - especially if it involves questionable fetishes.Â

Luckily it's possible to keep an eye out for warning signs and avoid it to some extent. It does require taking a firm stance though, so I feel sorry for people who aren't confrontational enough to tell someone to back off.

Zhavi · **01-30-2015, 01:29 PM**

(01-30-2015, 01:14 PM)Graeham Ridgefield Wrote: It's kind of alarming how many role-players cut off contact with me when they realise that I'm not willing to have Graeham jump into bed with their character within a few hours of meeting them.

I once had a character who was from a culture with very strict gender roles. Due to a choice she'd made, she'd become something of an outcast, and was stripped of her gender (I had a word for it, in a cultural sense it pretty much just meant that making babies with her was a huge no no), so she left to go wandering. But she kept those ideas, and had very rigid thoughts about what women should do (namely staying home and defending home and children and raising the children), and what men should do, and when sex should happen and when it shouldn't.

Finding people who wanted to rp with her was a very difficult task. She was short, ugly, stubborn, and prideful (any conversation with her would include the word 'honor' more than once), and it was interesting how some people who tended to stick to beautiful, elegant, sexy characters and interactions would not only avoid her, but me, as well, on an ooc level.

But then, too, there was a guy on that site I rped with who had a similar experience -- the sort of rp culture was that most female characters were encouraged to be capable in some manner, but they should also be damsels in distress during rp conflicts. He decided to make a capable female character who did not find herself in the damsel in distress role, and similarly to me found himself quickly thrust to the outskirts of rp and quasi-shunned on an ooc level. As he didn't directly state he was a man, people assumed him to also be a witty, blunt, and opinionated woman -- and from what he told me the reactions were almost universally negative, from male and female rpers alike.

Crazy, innit?

E'irawen · **01-30-2015, 03:24 PM**

(01-30-2015, 01:14 PM)Graeham Ridgefield Wrote:
(01-28-2015, 07:26 PM)allgivenover Wrote:
Steer clear of fetishism. This one might be hard to spot because some of these role players disguise themselves as trying to build an edgy narrative with a taboo subject, but it's important because this sort of role player will abandon you once the fetish play has lost its luster, leaving you with hanging threads and an awkward history.

It's kind of alarming how many role-players cut off contact with me when they realise that I'm not willing to have Graeham jump into bed with their character within a few hours of meeting them. What's even more alarming is that some people expect ERP just because my character happens to be a bit of a flirt. It's already made for a few awkward situations.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not opposed to ERP. I just think the community as a whole is far too tolerant of it. I see it as a very private affair, not something that should be bragged about in public - especially if it involves questionable fetishes.Â

Luckily it's possible to keep an eye out for warning signs and avoid it to some extent. It does require taking a firm stance though, so I feel sorry for people who aren't confrontational enough to tell someone to back off.

I can relate to this post so much and I'm so glad to hear (in a way) that I'm not the only one with this issue.

With K'aworu, there has been a very large amount of people who like him for eRP reasons. When I don't "put out" with him within a session, maybe two, I don't hear from the other person anymore. I even had the opposite happen too with a character I don't play now, but I got along well OOCly with another player and we had something setup for a backstory and it was fantastic, imo. We did also want to add a small level of no-ho-ho because both of us were intrigued by the idea and dynamic it would create. However, after this person slept with my character, they made it a point to avoid me and went RPing with everyone else. They started telling me they were always busy offline, even as they were sitting online and RPing. So I dunno.

What do you want from me

But, more seriously and back on topic. K'aworu runs into the aforementioned a loooot. I don't mind eRP at all, but he isn't a real frivelous character in that department. This isn't to say he's a prude, it's just not easy, y'know? I feel like, basically, that because my character won't sleep around and do it on the drop of a hat, that my character is automatically uninteresting and won't be approached.

Gegenji · **01-30-2015, 03:31 PM**

(01-30-2015, 03:24 PM)Fai Wrote: But, more seriously and back on topic. K'aworu runs into the aforementioned a loooot. I don't mind eRP at all, but he isn't a real frivelous character in that department. This isn't to say he's a prude, it's just not easy, y'know? I feel like, basically, that because my character won't sleep around and do it on the drop of a hat, that my character is automatically uninteresting and won't be approached.

I like to think there's a nice bit of entertainment in the "will they or won't they?" approach, myself. I also don't really like rushing relationships either - it's so much better when you let it grow organically and have events and markers that signal how the relationship formed. Even something as being able to recall where your first date was at is a nice talking piece, even if you don't end up staying with them.

But some folks just want to get to the nitty-gritty. Which is their own choice, I suppose... as long as they don't try to force it upon others or shame them for not doing the same.

E'irawen · **01-30-2015, 03:50 PM**

(01-30-2015, 03:31 PM)Gegenji Wrote:
(01-30-2015, 03:24 PM)Fai Wrote: But, more seriously and back on topic. K'aworu runs into the aforementioned a loooot. I don't mind eRP at all, but he isn't a real frivelous character in that department. This isn't to say he's a prude, it's just not easy, y'know? I feel like, basically, that because my character won't sleep around and do it on the drop of a hat, that my character is automatically uninteresting and won't be approached.

I like to think there's a nice bit of entertainment in the "will they or won't they?" approach, myself. I also don't really like rushing relationships either - it's so much better when you let it grow organically and have events and markers that signal how the relationship formed. Even something as being able to recall where your first date was at is a nice talking piece, even if you don't end up staying with them.

But some folks just want to get to the nitty-gritty. Which is their own choice, I suppose... as long as they don't try to force it upon others or shame them for not doing the same.

Agreed. I don't really judge if people do want to rush it and just get straight to things. I just don't really like taking that course. My main issue with any of it though is when you're like... OOCly avoided and singled out in a negative light just because you don't want to. Like you're some kind of no-fun zone.

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